CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #11

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  • #141
I've read all of the threads on this heartbreaking case but have held off of commenting because by the time I have my thoughts in order someone else has stated those same thoughts and quite eloquently.

But I'm adding this here because I don't recall this being brought up:

"Causes of death have not been released for Shanann, Bella or Celeste. But filings from prosecutors and the defense suggest at least some of them were strangled and that a “weapon” — possibly a gun — was involved."

I don't recall this mentioned elsewhere though it's very possible I missed it....And my guess is the writer took liberties with 'possibly a gun'. I do wonder if it was the method of strangulation or if it was a weapon used on SW and her unborn child.

It's from the end of this article People from August 21st.

I think everyone including MSM like People are overreading the defense's request to examine materials collected at the autopsy.

As a standard clause, they would request anything that could be found to identify the means and manner of death, which would include DNA, marks on the bodies, wound, bullets, etc.

It should not be implied that they have knowledge of such. Just a CYA clause so that if ANYTHING was found, defense would have access to examine it. Everyone is over-interpreting this clause
 
  • #142
If he has any shame it's in being thought of as a baby killer. How people view him matters to him.
To say what he's saying about his late pregnant wife, he appears to have NO SHAME. :cool::cool:jmoo:):)
 
  • #143
... Nevertheless, I am worried for this case. I'm worried that the path to justice may be super horrific -as in maybe a hung jury at first. Maybe two.

And frankly, after thinking and talking with my family about the case, I think there are two big reasons for that possibility...

I see your points and I have also been disappointed in juries' decisions in the past, but I think justice will be served here. I believe when this jury is confronted with autopsy pictures of those BEAUTIFUL babies after being discarded in crude oil for days, CW is a dead man walking.
Moo.
 
  • #144
I've seen MLM and people selling tshirts.

Gross.

Moo

Let’s not talk poorly about the people selling their Thrive products in honor of Shanann. That is what her circle does. Thrive is a huge part of her life and she likely would be totally in support of it. Some of her friend read here and at least one is posting so please keep that in mind.
 
  • #145
To say what he's saying about his late pregnant wife, he appears to have NO SHAME. :cool::cool:jmoo:):)
He has no honesty either, lying about his extra marital affair when it only took two days for LE to uncover it.
 
  • #146
I think CW was defective so nothing he does or says is explainable or excusable, imo, so I'm just speaking of the potential psychology of why he put the girls he was so "devoted" to into the oil...

He seemed to have good feelings about the oil business, or "tar heels" ...if that's the case maybe to HIM putting them there was not only a good place to hide them but also it's not so bad of a place for them to be, in his twisted mind. Some are saying he must have hated the girls and that's why he put them there, and SW in a grave, albeit a shallow one. I think the opposite is true. But maybe if he had time he would have buried them all, or if there was room in the tanks SW would've been in there too...who knows, but the thing is, he's guilty as sin of killing all of them in cold blood. If he had snapped he never snapped out of it because this was premidated, imo. He just ran out of time. (And thank you, NU!)

Interesting train of thought as related to psychology, waterdog.
 
  • #147
You know I really think the big issue there was they just wanted to go home. Seven weeks sequestered like prisoners. A finding of guilt would have led to a sentencing phase and who knows how many more weeks. So they didn't find her guilty of anything that would require a sentencing phase. Not even child neglect.

I remember one juror talking about how she just stood in the window resentfully looking down at the hotel pool they could not use. (Maybe because it would bring them into contact with other people).

They were treated like they were being punished. The only relief from the absolute monotony they had was half days on Saturdays when their families could come and spend time with them at a secure location.

Wth? 7 weeks of that.

Since that case judges are far less likely to sequester juries and when they do it is not with as onerous circumstances. For example, they can go home on the weekends.

And we have to also remember that in the thousands of cases we have watched on here since the OJ trial, how many murderers have been found not guilty when it seems clear they were?

Out of thousands of cases, we keep repeating two.

Nevertheless, I am worried for this case. I'm worried that the path to justice may be super horrific -as in maybe a hung jury at first. Maybe two.

And frankly, after thinking and talking with my family about the case, I think there are two big reasons for that possibility.

1. The more attractive a person is the harder it is to find them guilty. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.st...a2f47009-d1af-5ddc-9231-f9a33c21e1a3.amp.html

As much as many of us here find the man repellent, he is conventionally attractive and has a look that many straight women would like.

Coupled with videos and photos showing the gleaming facade he maintained of a loving father, a facade so good people have been shocked at what happened, and who he turned out to be, that may make certain jurors more inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt as to the more serious charges.

2. There is a ton of hateful criticism of SW. I have seen it in MSM articles posts. I have seen hints of it here.

She was involved in a type of business that many abhor.

She was an attractive woman who seemed to have it all and even in death there are those who feel less than her and jealous.

She was a type- A, overachiever which again, bothers people who feel insecure. They may have an inherent dislike for her.

She posted incessantly positive and cheerful social media posts about her kids, her husband and her life. There have been studies as to how social media causes depression as people tend to post only the good stuff and others feel inadequate in the face of that and don't measure up. As a result, there has emerged a deep resentment of people who portray a "perfect" life on social media by people who know their's aren't. They feel anger toward those for making them feel bad about their lives and circumstances.

I have seen a lot of that in comments when it comes to SW. "She needed to work on her marriage and get off social media!"

"She spent too much time making sure everyone saw how great her life was instead of caring for her family!"

That kind of stuff.

In fact, one of her very own friends was commenting to the media that he "had to block her" because he was "jealous" of her life! What? You block someone for doing something wrong. Not for portraying a life that you covet. Just get off social media and put things in perspective - few post the struggles they deal with. They don't want to make anyone feel down.

In any event there seems to be simmering anger out there against people who portray a wonderful life.

I worry that the defense could capitalize on those two things in this case. All we need is one person on the jury with feelings of inadequacy and the inability to use basic logic.

This is not a complex case. But I fear that we are in for a horror show. And I don't think Shanann's poor family are going to be able to withstand it.

I was just thinking about how if he is not found guilty I’ll be protesting.

Gitana1, if yoooou’re worried, I’m worried.

Again as stated from the beginning, I am sick that her family will have to endure this BS in court.
 
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  • #148
Let’s not talk poorly about the people selling their Thrive products in honor of Shanann. That is what her circle does. Thrive is a huge part of her life and she likely would be totally in support of it. Some of her friend read here and at least one is posting so please keep that in mind.
These are not people in SW circle that are trying to get SW to her 200k goal.

These are people that didn't know her using the popularity of the case to benefit themselves.
 
  • #149
This is all so especially interesting considering Colorado is a blue state (and I mean BLUUUUUUUUE..) and this is a DP Case.

“Frank Rzucek Sr. leaned forward in a Colorado courtroom, weeping with his face in his hands as his son-in-law, just feet away, was told Tuesday he could face the death penalty if convicted of killing Rzucek’s daughter and two granddaughters.“

Father of slain Colorado woman sobs, seethes in courtroom
 
  • #150
If he has any shame it's in being thought of as a baby killer. How people view him matters to him.
Agreed because the idea of a baby killer is so repugnant to all in society that admitting to this would certainly weigh in at sentencing time. He is using our natural instinct to protect children to his advantage hoping we would relate to why he killed their mother. Another sign he does not have normal human feeling as his actions say the opposite. He never attempted to revive his kids just kill their mother. Nonsensical.
 
  • #151
This is all so especially interesting considering Colorado is a blue state (and I mean BLUUUUUUUUE..) and this is a DP Case.

“Frank Rzucek Sr. leaned forward in a Colorado courtroom, weeping with his face in his hands as his son-in-law, just feet away, was told Tuesday he could face the death penalty if convicted of killing Rzucek’s daughter and two granddaughters.“

Father of slain Colorado woman sobs, seethes in courtroom

I think most people disregard the severity of a death sentence in states that have not actively put convicted felons to death. Colorado is such a state just like CA is. I think that makes them more apt to sentence felons such as CW to death penalty verdict is to make sure it is in fact life in prison with zero chance of parole. Some states life in prison means 20 years. It's ridiculous.
 
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  • #152
These are not people in SW circle that are trying to get SW to her 200k goal.

These are people that didn't know her using the popularity of the case to benefit themselves.

Ewww in that case. If they aren’t her team then yes, I take issue with that! Gross for sure.
 
  • #153
Pillow case in the trash can, matching sheet at the disposal site...

Thoughts about the pillow case?
 
  • #154
I may be wrong but I think part of the problem in Caylee’s case was people finding it hard to believe a woman and a “mother” could be capable of such a wicked crime. This case is very different. The news interview, his abnormal behaviour and I am sure the forensics will disprove his version of events entirely.
I agree somewhat, but think when there is a clear case pointing to a mother killing her child or children (and there have been such cases) juries have no trouble convicting a mother.

I also agree that there have been cases where a jury has been persuaded by the defense that the evidence presented by the prosecution is not sufficient to convict.

My feeling is, it's not so much that the jury believed in the innocence of the accused, but more that they were persuaded to not completely trust the prosecution's evidence, that it could be in some way (possibly, not certainly) 'tainted', that possibly the accused was being unfairly blamed for someone else's actions.

I'm not an expert, but I think Mark Fuhrman was perceived as not entirely trustworthy, and similarly, Casey Anthony's parents' testimony confused rather than clarified things, and the forensic evidence was perceived as possibly mumbo jumbo concocted to support the prosecution's theory.
 
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  • #155
I must have someone on ignore because I’m only seeing replies now, but I’ve been reading along silently from the beginning and I just need to remind everyone: you do not have to be a mother (or a father) to understand and be devastated by the depravity of this case, from the murders to the method of disposal in crude oil. Please be kind when commenting and remember that many of us love children deeply even if we are unable to have our own, and don’t assume empathy is something you only acquire as a parent (“You’re obviously not a mother” or anything re: the capacity of jurors based on whether or not they have kids).

ETA: I am not new lol but I rarely comment myself

So sorry, that is true. But I will be honest, a Parent, especially a Mother, will have an absolute visceral experience and reaction to seeing the oil tanks, and small children covered with crude oil. CW will be hated for that act alone.

I have never served on a jury, and never will. But I know this much, don't over estimate the literacy, and education of the average juror. Sometimes, well meaning defense attorneys are too darn erudite, for lack of a better term. They don't talk to folks, they use big, fancy words, and forget from their ivory tower of a J.D. degree that most folks in the United States read at about a 7th grade level, or less.
 
  • #156
Pillow case in the trash can, matching sheet at the disposal site...

Thoughts about the pillow case?
I think it was multiple pillow cases and also a sheet in the trash. What I’m confused about is it didn’t sound like these were part of the bedding in a pile on the floor of her bedroom.
 
  • #157
Pillow case in the trash can, matching sheet at the disposal site...

Thoughts about the pillow case?

I think the trash was part of his intended clean up for after he got out of work. He smugly believed he had a lot of time to alter the crime scene. Guilty people do worry about those little details because they are umm guilty. A lot of people have mismatched or unmatched pillowcases it doesn't prove anything but can make a guilty person think it is glaring evidence left to be found.
 
  • #158
Has anyone found any reason to believe CW was using any kind of steroid?

There have been several murders of spouses/loved ones, in part, due to steroid use; i.e. Roid Rage. Wondering if that may be part of the issue here.
 
  • #159
Has anyone found any reason to believe CW was using any kind of steroid?

There have been several murders of spouses/loved ones, in part, due to steroid use; i.e. Roid Rage. Wondering if that may be part of the issue here.

His actions before and after the crimes don't point to any type of rage, imo. They point to a cold, calculated, methodically planned and carried out crime.

Moo
 
  • #160
Pardon the interruption: Were there members here who supported Casey Anthony , Scott Peterson & Jody Arias during their trials ? I was not a member here then.

It mystifies me seeing People support CW. I just can't imagine.

Yes. There were.
 
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