CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #11

[PrimeSuspect]

Pillow case in the trash can, matching sheet at the disposal site...

Thoughts about the pillow case?

Could it have been on the pillow used for an attempt to smother one of the children or SW, even if strangulation was used for all? Could there have been droplets of blood on the pillowcase from one of the victims? CW having some knowledge of fabric holding traces of evidence and it had to be disposed.

 

[bluesneakers]

Has anyone found any reason to believe CW was using any kind of steroid?

There have been several murders of spouses/loved ones, in part, due to steroid use; i.e. Roid Rage. Wondering if that may be part of the issue here.

No, as far as I can tell it's all speculation.

 

[kirkassoc]

RSBM


THIS! Eloquent and spot on. I have shed tears over this family (and Dieter) despite not having children. You should see the burial my gerbils got. No one with an ounce of decency can get past the oil part of this awful tragedy. There's a reason 'actions speak louder than words' is a saying!

I'm reminded of something from a book (by Jane Austen, I think) which said, "Love is not what you say....love is what you do."

Love is an "action" word.

 

[margarita25]

Could it have been on the pillow used for an attempt to smother one of the children or SW, even if strangulation was used for all? Could there have been droplets of blood on the pillowcase from one of the victims? CW having some knowledge of fabric holding traces of evidence and it had to be disposed.

This is exactly the kind of thing I was wondering about. Why dispose of the pillowcase?

 

[gitana1]

Quick question on instruction of juries @gitana1

If this happens in the UK, it must also happen in the US:

Our UK juries are directed by the Judge at the end of trial. This "summing-up" presents the law and a summary of the evidence in such a way as best to enable the jury to reach a just conclusion as well as basic legal principles such as " beyond reasonable doubt" and the standard of proof needed ( cause obviously Joe Public is not expected to u'stand burden of proof issues, )

They can also be given written instructions and in some cases have been known to be given almost flow charts with writtenquestions for the jurists in complex cases. ie. If you find x, then you must convict on y, z.

Yes. We have the same. Usually the two sides will file proposed jury instructions and then argue which ones should be included. The judge issues the final decision.

Some terms in certain states will not be defined in the instructions though. Let me do some research.

ETA: I found model jury instructions for the state of CO. Looks like a lot of good stuff. I'm going to read. Hopefully others can and say what they find.

https://www.courts.state.co.us/user...Instructions/2017/COLJI-Crim 2017 - Final.pdf

 

[DexterMorgan]

I think the trash was part of his intended clean up for after he got out of work. He smugly believed he had a lot of time to alter the crime scene. Guilty people do worry about those little details because they are umm guilty. A lot of people have mismatched or unmatched pillowcases it doesn't prove anything but can make a guilty person think it is glaring evidence left to be found.

Even though there was no time to offer reward money. I truly think an appreciation Go Fundme should be started for N.U. if she lacks finances while dealing with things.

Because without her CW would have been given more time to destroy evidence. Plus SW family would have been in scared limbo the entire time. Especially since it may have taken months to find them and then more months to arrest him. Jmo

 

[margarita25]

I’ve seen in other cases where bodies are temporarily stored in the garage. Or basement. Or crawl space.

Does this home have a basement or crawl space?

 

[Boodles]

<modsnip: snipped quote that was removed>

Here, with what little we know officially, there is a slew of circumstantial evidence and so much consciousness of guilt. Then, LE has forensics and god only knows what else they have on CW. I believe we’re seeing only the tip of the iceberg of the evidence from their ongoing investigation.

 

[Stunned]

Could be whatever he used to strangle SW & the girls (ex: rope, wire, etc) was found with the bodies...or there’s something we don’t know about yet.

I think there is a lot we don’t know about. And seriously, I kind of need to sort out my emotions on what we already know before being given more horrifying facts Just IMO.

 

[gitana1]

Yes. We have the same. Usually the two sides will file proposed jury instructions and then argue which ones should be included. The judge issues the final decision.

Some terms in certain states will not be defined in the instructions though. Let me do some research.

ETA: I found model jury instructions for the state of CO. Looks like a lot of good stuff. I'm going to read. Hopefully others can and say what they find.

https://www.courts.state.co.us/userfiles/file/Court_Probation/Supreme_Court/Committees/Criminal_Jury_Instructions/2017/COLJI-Crim 2017 - Final.pdf

From the link:

"Reasonable doubt means a doubt based upon reason and common sense which arises from a fair and rational consideration of all of the evidence, or the lack of evidence, in the case. It is a doubt which is not a vague, speculative or imaginary doubt, but such a doubt as would cause reasonable people to hesitate to act in matters of importance to themselves."

 

[gitana1]

I think there is a lot we don’t know about. And seriously, I kind of need to sort out my emotions on what we already know before being given more horrifying facts Just IMO.

I am with you.

 

[Boodles]

Gitana, do you think they’ll hold back the autopsy reports and causes of death until trial or will that be released soon?

 

[margarita25]

I know a strong theory here is that the children were already dead when Shanann got home.

But as far as family annhilators go, I think some of them, if motivated immensely by spite and revenge, want to kill the children in front of the mother. Of course seeing the children already dead would still illicit the same hurt, trauma, shock and agony, but I keep thinking about this, if it’s possible for him to have killed the children in front of her for his own sick revenge and pleasure. And if so, as I asked before, how could this be accomplished...maybe he restrained her, jmo.

 

[SuperTmo]

Has anyone found any reason to believe CW was using any kind of steroid?

There have been several murders of spouses/loved ones, in part, due to steroid use; i.e. Roid Rage. Wondering if that may be part of the issue here.

I feel like if this were the case there would be other instances of rage we’d hear about. Yelling at coworkers, drivers, friends. I don’t think we’d see him just go crazy like this out of the blue, but I could be wrong. I don’t know enough about it. But he was sooo calm on tv.

 

[Medstudies]

I agree somewhat, but think when there is a clear case pointing to a mother killing her child or children (and there have been such cases) juries have no trouble convicting a mother.

I also agree that there have been cases where a jury has been persuaded by the defense that the evidence presented by the prosecution is not sufficient to convict.

My feeling is, it's not so much that the jury believed in the innocence of the accused, but more that they were persuaded to not completely trust the prosecution's evidence, that it could be in some way (possibly, not certainly) 'tainted', that possibly the accused was being unfairly blamed for someone else's actions.

I'm not an expert, but I think Mark Fuhrman was perceived as not entirely trustworthy, and similarly, Casey Anthony's parents' testimony confused rather than clarifued things, and the forensic evidence was perceived as possibly mumbo jumbo concocted to support the prosecution's theory.

Great post!

MOO in the case of OJ = OJ was the all American hero. Mr. nice guy. Mr. Cool. The case followed the horrible treatment of Rodney King and other injustices of black Americans. Putting Mark Furman on the stand without first disclosing his history of blatant derogatory speech killed his testimony.

CW will be damned if he does/doesn’t take the stand. He is a known liar and cheat. I’m sure the state will have a long list of witnesses in friends/family/neighbors/coworkers who will destroy him and prove he murdered his children and wife.

He cannot escape from: All the interviews. All the evidence. Lie. After. Lie. Laughing. Grinning.

I wish I could be there to seem them take this trash out.

 

[kkdj]

I know a strong theory here is that the children were already dead when Shanann got home.

But as far as family annhilators go, I think some of them, if motivated immensely by spite and revenge, want to kill the children in front of the mother. Of course seeing the children already dead would still illicit the same hurt, trauma, shock and agony, but I keep thinking about this, if it’s possible for him to have killed the children in front of her. And if so, as I asked before, how could this be accomplished...maybe he restrained her, jmo.

I've wondered the same. How did this all go down? Of course each death was premeditated. I wonder how long he planned this and where to hide their bodies.

 

[Stunned]

It’s comments like this that keep me coming back to this forum. Posters who have compassion for the wide range of victims that are affected by these senseless murders.

I’m really amazed the woman’s name hasn’t been leaked. This makes me think it was brand new. Or, anyone who knew is still so horrified by his end game.

 

[margarita25]

I've wondered the same. How did this all go down? Of course each death was premeditated. I wonder how long he planned this and where to hide their bodies.

Maybe he staged them like the doll pic? Sorry if the doll pic thing has been ruled out as insignificant, I haven’t been able to read every single post...

 

[SuperTmo]

I’m really amazed the woman’s name hasn’t been leaked. This makes me think it was brand new. Or, anyone who knew is still so horrified by his end game.

Can you imagine if he offed his entire family after knowing some woman a week or two? Or the first time he slept with someone new? How could he have ever thought this was the answer.

 

[cottonweaver]

I’ve been a member here for (guessing) almost 2 years, I’ve never needed my “ignore” button more than on this case!

*just beware, there are people trying to benefit from this tragedy all over the Internet.*

Bumping this one! Not surprised it's already got 23 likes