CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #11

[FlossyMay]

She's sneaky and secretive. I'd watch out for her, people. (I haven't let her in my house, lol.)

jmo

We have her, but she's been unplugged for awhile because I lost my phone charger and then realized her cord fit my phone, lol.

 

[DAdvocate]

I mean, the way she posted it did not SEEM like she had done it on purpose. But I guess it’s possible, sort of, as a veiled message...???? But honestly, if she really felt threatened enough to post a super creepy photo, she should have never gone back home, and she should have never left the girls behind.

I still suspect Dad. I think Dad did it, and when Mom showed up in the living room, he said, “Look what the girls did.”.

Who knows, maybe he was playing it out in his head to see if he could go through with it.

No, I mean she may have posted it because she was in a depressed state and had already planned the girls deaths. IMO

 

[SaguaroSpirit]

Even phones are starting to “listen”, honestly. The other day I was in the same room as some others talking about Renaissance Faire. That night when I got home, an ad for Renaissance Faire came up on my Instagram. A few weeks ago I was talking to my 18 year old about underage drinking. Thirty minutes later I opened Facebook and there was an advertisement for something about legal alcohol use. It is really super creepy, and more and more people are noticing it!

We're being kept pretty good track of, eh?

 

[Mamamiamaria]

No, I mean she may have posted it because she was in a depressed state and had already planned the girls deaths. IMO

Where has it ever been suggested Shanann suffered with depression ? I have not read anything to even remotely suggest this to be the case.

 

[dgfred]

What? and return from a trip later and kill them?
No way.

 

[chi123]

No one has mentioned this before, that I saw, but what was the seminar about that Shanann went to? I know it was about the Thrive business. But were any additional goals laid out? Such as, sell (or buy yourself) $7,500 in a month and get another vacation? Anything that could have put more pressure on an already, apparently, strained relationship?

I'm just curious because we have talked about pretty much everything else and we need something new to talk about.

Also, I haven't seen many posts by Shanann's friend. Did I miss them? I saw that someone said her friend verified she was making a lot of money. But does anyone really know how much their friend makes? (I thought my friend was making a lot of money once but she was using credit cards and already filed for bankruptcy once.)

Yeah she posted a few times and had some good insight into the relationship. I took her posts about Thrive with a huge grain of salt because she's also selling Thrive, and as anyone who's gone through it knows it's basically impossible to reason with people involved in an MLM. It's legitimately like a cult. But maybe SW was one of the few making money, she certainly had the bubbling personality for it. Without seeing an income disclosure statement from anyone at Thrive i will remain skeptical at best.

Like you said though, it'd be hard for the friend to even know how much she was making. It's kind of like how some of their friends thought they had the perfect marriage because of SW social media posts, come to find out from people really close to her it was not.

 

[DAdvocate]

Where has it ever been suggested Shanann suffered with depression ? I have not read anything to even remotely suggest this to be the case.

I believe in watching videos of her that she may have been depressed. You are correct though, we don't know for sure. That's why I would like to see her mental history, hopefully it may come out in court as well as medicine she and CW were on.

 

[MKZoo]

I mean, the way she posted it did not SEEM like she had done it on purpose. But I guess it’s possible, sort of, as a veiled message...???? But honestly, if she really felt threatened enough to post a super creepy photo, she should have never gone back home, and she should have never left the girls behind.

I still suspect Dad. I think Dad did it, and when

I don’t think that she posted it as anything more than a “look at what my weirdo kids did” funny post. I feel like every parent I know posts things of that nature all the time. In retrospect it looks very ominous but IMO, it’s just not.

 

[DAdvocate]

What? and return from a trip later and kill them?
No way.

People who are planning murder-suicides many times go on with their lives and duties right up until it happens. Sometimes they may drop clues along the way that you can put together later. My uncle was in a focus group with a bunch of people and one woman each time they met sat and knitted a scarf. She worked on the scarf each meeting. One day she didn't show up for the meeting and she hung herself with that scarf.

 

[NothingClever]

No one has mentioned this before, that I saw, but what was the seminar about that Shanann went to? I know it was about the Thrive business. But were any additional goals laid out? Such as, sell (or buy yourself) $7,500 in a month and get another vacation? Anything that could have put more pressure on an already, apparently, strained relationship?

I'm just curious because we have talked about pretty much everything else and we need something new to talk about.

Also, I haven't seen many posts by Shanann's friend. Did I miss them? I saw that someone said her friend verified she was making a lot of money. But does anyone really know how much their friend makes? (I thought my friend was making a lot of money once but she was using credit cards and already filed for bankruptcy once.)

From my understanding in reading the threads she was selling at least $80,000 a month and in April sold $140,000. I don’t know what percentage her base commission would have been but even if it was only 10% of sales that’s $8,000 in comission. Add to that the money she makes from her downline, which was substantial again from reading the threads here. That percentage would vary depending on how much those individuals sell.

I sold Scentsy for years but do not any longer. I can tell you my Superstar Director (she would be like my grandmother looking at it in a family hierarchy situation) had a downline of over 8,000 consultants and her yearly commission was over half a million dollars. Not her sales....her take home commission.

We don’t know how big SW’s downline was nor what the comission structure was like but I don’t think she was throwing out as much of her own cash as people are assuming. Just my opinion tho.

 

[DAdvocate]

I don’t think that she posted it as anything more than a “look at what my weirdo kids did” funny post. I feel like every parent I know posts things of that nature all the time. In retrospect it looks very ominous but IMO, it’s just not.

I think its odd that posts were removed from her FB page. When posts were deleted, I would have also deleted that one just to stop the speculation.

 

[Jennifer17]

No, I mean she may have posted it because she was in a depressed state and had already planned the girls deaths. IMO

Except that he has been charged with all the deaths. He put his little girls in filthy oil.
He put her in a shallow grave. He was the one having at least one extra marital affair.
He was the one who lied and lied himself into all corners.

 

[Harriet Vane]

IMO, I wonder if her comment about the girls having each other's backs meant that neither of them would admit doing it, and/or neither of her girls was trying to place blame on the other.
Opens up a whole can of ironies, maybe. Or maybe they both denied it because someone else did it, and they promised not to tell?
Obviously, it's a reach with the limited info we have to work with, and sometimes a doll posed to look like a dead person in the morgue is innocent child's play.

Hmm, perhaps. I know that my four year old would be completely incapable of lying like that and keeping a secret like that from me (that her dad really did it), without me knowing. Then again, my children haven't grown up with a parent like CW in the house.

 

[Jacquie1]

Mine goes off uninvited too when our TV is on. She says 'Sorry, I don't know that one'.
I say you get Google if anyone in your household is named anything close to Alex---. Alexa will constantly wake up and drive you crazy.
And don't name your child 'Google'.

Apparently, you can change the wake word, I just haven’t figured it out yet.

 

[Bill Carson]

Hmm. I mean I'm seeing that it's favored but not that it's guaranteed:


Criteria for Determining Living Arrangements
Parenting time is the actual time the parent is physically with the child. As mentioned above, this may not be divided equally.
Another criteria that is very important is each parent’s previous pattern of involvement with the child. An active parent who has long been the primary caregiver is more likely to receive majority parenting time. Parental conduct is also a factor as are support systems such as grandparents.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.denverfamilylawmatters.com/blog/joint-child-custody-colorado?hs_amp=true

I see link after link of CO family law firms discussing primary parent and the best interest standard and how equal parenting time is not standard.

Top 10 Child Custody Mistakes in Colorado | Tolison & Williams, LLC

If it was typically or automatically 50/50 why would so many law firms be making statements like this?

And why would this article (posted today it appears) , be discussing the push for a bill that would make it easier for parents to get equal parenting time in CO?

"On the one hand, Colorado Senate Bill 15-129 — the 50/50 parenting bill — would recognize parental rights as fundamental rights, and it would allow parents to have equal chance for custody in a divorce."
Child Custody Could Have More Chance of a '50/50' Split If Bill Passes in Colorado - In Denver Times

There is nothing in the law that I've found in CO that states equal parenting time is automatic there. Or even typical. Just that having a child spend as much time with both parents is favored. It sounds like it comes down to best interest of the child standard as in most states in the US.

Otherwise, you are saying that if a couple has toddlers or even babies and one parent was a stay at home parent and has more availability to care for the kids, the other parent will get equal time and shove the babies in daycare. Even though one parent is available to care for them while the other is not.

I don't practice in CO but it doesn't seem to me at all that he was guaranteed an equal time share.

Gitana1, look, I've been doing this for 8 years, but rely on your own research if you want to. Do you live in a state where one parent has primary custody and the other gets visitation time? I can tell you that Colorado is much different than that, and it takes a long time to get a handle on how parenting time is divided here.

I would be careful what you read on lawyer's blogs---sometimes those blogs are written by bots at Avvo or Thompson West (or whatever the name is today). They are also written to try to lure unsuspecting clients in and get them to pay a bunch of money.

No, there are no guarantees of absolutely 50/50 parenting time. As I have said, there is not standard parenting time presumption in Colorado. I used to work in Texas, where they had a Standard Possession Order, and it was presumed that one parent had "custody" and the other got "visitation" on the first, third, and fifth weekends. Colorado has no presumptions. The judge is supposed to compare the facts in the case against "all relevant factors" including nine specific factors (as opposed to only three factors mentioned in the blog you linked to above). Here is the statute (14-10-124 C.R.S.):

(a) Determination of parenting time. The court, upon the motion of either party or upon its own motion, may make provisions for parenting time that the court finds are in the child's best interests unless the court finds, after a hearing, that parenting time by the party would endanger the child's physical health or significantly impair the child's emotional development. In addition to a finding that parenting time would endanger the child's physical health or significantly impair the child's emotional development, in any order imposing or continuing a parenting time restriction, the court shall enumerate the specific factual findings supporting the restriction and may enumerate the conditions that the restricted party could fulfill in order to seek modification in the parenting plan. When a claim of child abuse or neglect, domestic violence, or sexual assault where there is also a claim that the child was conceived as a result of the sexual assault has been made to the court, or the court has reason to believe that a party has committed child abuse or neglect, domestic violence, or sexual assault where there is also a claim that the child was conceived as a result of the sexual assault, prior to determining parenting time, the court shall follow the provisions of subsection (4) of this section. In determining the best interests of the child for purposes of parenting time, the court shall consider all relevant factors, including:

(I) The wishes of the child's parents as to parenting time;
(II) The wishes of the child if he or she is sufficiently mature to express reasoned and independent preferences as to the parenting time schedule;
(III) The interaction and interrelationship of the child with his or her parents, his or her siblings, and any other person who may significantly affect the child's best interests;
(IV) The child's adjustment to his or her home, school, and community;
(V) The mental and physical health of all individuals involved, except that a disability alone shall not be a basis to deny or restrict parenting time;
(VI) The ability of the parties to encourage the sharing of love, affection, and contact between the child and the other party; except that, if the court determines that a party is acting to protect the child from witnessing domestic violence or from being a victim of child abuse or neglect or domestic violence, the party's protective actions shall not be considered with respect to this factor;
(VII Whether the past pattern of involvement of the parties with the child reflects ) a system of values, time commitment, and mutual support;
(VIII) The physical proximity of the parties to each other as this relates to the practical considerations of parenting time;
(IX) Repealed. and
(X)
(XI) The ability of each party to place the needs of the child ahead of his or her own needs.​

So every parent can design their own parenting plan and can come into court and argue for it. But in practice (again, you won't find this in the law), will almost always start with the presumption of 50/50 parenting time (though how to implement it is open), and then they will add or subtract to one parent or the other based upon the facts of the case as applied to the factors enumerated above.

Add to that the judges' hate of child custody cases and having to make decisions, and many courts will give 50/50 parenting time in all but a few cases. And it doesn't matter as much as you might think who has been the "primary caretaker." (i.e., who feeds and bathes the kids, takes them to the doctor, etc.) Judges will say that the parents divided roles in the marriage, but that shouldn't handicap dad once the marriage is over.

So you are right, there is no guarantee that CW gets 50% parenting time, but if the parents live in close proximity, then it's going to be pretty close to 50/50, unless there's a good reason why it shouldn't be. Again, this assumes that they live in close enough proximity to make it workable. And also, I am answering this based upon what we knew about CW and SW before the deaths.

 

[Inthedetails]

Add to that the money she makes from her downline, which was substantial again from reading the threads here. That percentage would vary depending on how much those individuals sell.

I don't understand how MLM are not considered pyramid schemes. Seriously, what's the difference?

jmo

 

[Harriet Vane]

I think its odd that posts were removed from her FB page. When posts were deleted, I would have also deleted that one just to stop the speculation.

The post was removed from her feed, the photo just remains in her folder of uploads.

 

[PommyMommy]

Delete. Didn't see the "IMO"

 

[DAdvocate]

LINK PLEASE for SW was in a depressed state.

LINK PLEASE for SW planned the girls deaths.

LINK Please that CW killed his girls. Link Please!

 

[DAdvocate]

I don't understand how MLM are not considered pyramid schemes. Seriously, what's the difference?

jmo

I don't think the Mods want us talking about her job and a pyramid scheme.