CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #16

[Bill Carson]

Many a parent has gone broke, funding the defense of a clearly guilty child. Parents can be blind when it comes to blood.

The guilty need lawyers, too. It's hard for parents to know where to draw the line. Many times they feel guilty that they might be somehow responsible because of how they raised the child.

 

[Layla123]

I’m still out on this issue. I don’t know what the dad said to CW (or vice versa), what if anything he told his son to do or not too, how much dad knows, etc. Also, who is paying for CW’s attorney? If CW were my son, he could use whatever money he has, but I’d be damned if I was going to liquidate my life savings or mortgage my house to pay for defending his actions. No way.

Public Defender.

 

[ZsaZsa]

I wasn't blaming the vitamins, I just think that someone with a pharmacological background should look into what CW specifically was taking (and that could include the Thrive patches, other supplements, prescription medication, OTC medication, and other controlled substances) that might have caused him to be quick tempered or especially irritable. We know from the advertising claims that the patches gave users incredible amounts of energy, so there might be some form of stimulant, even if this is caffeine. Or the energy could come from changes in metabolism from eating fewer carbs and exercise.

Or there is nothing of any pharmacological import in the patches, but the placebo effect...

 

[ZsaZsa]

Maybe he was having a difficult time separating his delusions from reality at that point.

What delusions was he suffering from?

 

[MerryB]

We need a lawyer to chime in hear. I think it varies from state to state and the nature of the plea.

Our friend @Bill Carson is an atty in CO.

 

[skyedaze]

To me, and this is JMHO..he is a narcissist and got tired of the life skit he was playing in. New lovers (to put it nicely) cost money. His current life was too expensive and was about to come crashing down,so he wanted a "clean" reset with no financial responsibility (no divorce, no child support, no bad reputation), look good like a victim, get sappy people to start a gofund me so you don't have to pay for funerals or the mortgage...and you are set free smelling like a rose.

So, old life had to go and had to go in a way where he would not look bad. That was his mindset....MOO.

 

[Bill Carson]

If he does a plea deal, there won’t be a trial, and we likely won’t know a lot of detail about what happened, right?

I'm sure there will be a 2-hour 48 Hours or something similar. Hopefully it will be after the trial or sentencing, and we will know a whole lot more than we do now.

That, and I think that PommyMommy should write a book, don't you guys?

 

[Bill Carson]

We need a lawyer to chime in hear. I think it varies from state to state and the nature of the plea.

Our friend @Bill Carson is an atty in CO.

Sorry, I don't practice criminal law in Colorado, so I can't answer authoritatively.

In Texas I've seen where sometimes the judges would require, as a condition of accepting the plea, that the defendant make what is called an "allocution," which is when the defendant has to tell what really happened, fully admitting guilt.

 

[MassGuy]

Sorry, I don't practice criminal law in Colorado, so I can't answer authoritatively.

In Texas I've seen where sometimes the judges would require, as a condition of accepting the plea, that the defendant make what is called an "allocution," which is when the defendant has to tell what really happened, fully admitting guilt.

Thanks. Unfortunately in many cases I have followed, there is a tremendous amount of face saving when/if the defendant explains what happened. Parts are left out, and the details glossed over. They almost always leave something to be desired.

 

[searchinGirl]

The murder of Shanann Watts and her Children is about as bad as Domestic Violence gets. The situation is only aggravated by her not having confided her fears to anyone. None of us wants to admit we have made a big mistake in Love. But at some point Shanann must have known that she was not safe. If you ever find yourself in the same situation, You have to reach out to the people that love you. And share with them your fears. There is a lot of support out there.

Women's shelters to hold conversation on abuse following Frederick homicides

 

[RickshawFan]

Anti-depressants do cause you to kill or commit suicide. Once such case is the Columbine killer. He was on them and there are Many other cases. That is why the pharm co. (won't name it) has over 3000 lawsuits against it for this. They make a balanced mind unbalanced in some individuals. Yes the pharm company has blood on their hands. You think they will take them off the market? NOO it's a money maker.

IMO adults on psychotropic medications have an obligation to keep tabs on whether they experience sudden mood shifts or other side effects. If they are unable or for some reason can't discern that something problematic has happened to their brain (often because of the same side effects), someone close needs to speak up.

Everyone on this kind of medication should be seeing a physician (or advanced nurse practitioner specializing in psychiatric medicine) for regular check-ins and be prepared to bring any kind of weirdness to their attention.

This has happened to me on non-opioid PAIN medication. This can happen to people on certain antibiotics, and they can get so lost in side effects, they don't have the wherewithal to know it's the medication that's causing the problem.

So, IMO, if CW suffered from depression (or whatever), he had an obligation to seek help and an obligation to make sure the side effects of any medication weren't dangerously adverse. This is mature adult behavior around health issues.

 

[katydid23]

I feel that if these murders were truly premeditated, then the plan would have been more humane with respect to method and disposal.

One would hope so, but it doesn't always work that way. Some parents, who choose murder suicide, choose inhumane methods. Recently two moms drove their children over a rugged cliff onto the beach, 100 feet below. Not a very humane method, IMO.

Some parents, even with premeditation, stab or shoot their children. Not humane or respectful.

 

[grillzgirl]

Hi everyone. I've been lurking since day one of this horrible tragedy. I've wanted to post but to be honest, the threads have moved so fast I've had trouble keeping up and reading everyone's comments.

I am in NC, about 30 miles from where the funeral service was held today. I drove to Pinehurst this morning and arrived at the church at around 11:30 am. I didn't attend the service, I just felt compelled to at least go by the church since I'm so close. The three white hearses lined up in a row really made it real for me. I cannot describe to you what a sinking feeling I had as I passed by. It was just heartbreaking.

Thank you to everyone who has shared their thoughts on these threads for the last few days. I've enjoyed all of your posts.

 

[Ronso]

IMO adults on psychotropic medications have an obligation to keep tabs on whether they experience sudden mood shifts or other side effects. If they are unable or for some reason can't discern that something problematic has happened to their brain (often because of the same side effects), someone close needs to speak up.

Everyone on this kind of medication should be seeing a physician (or advanced nurse practitioner specializing in psychiatric medicine) for regular check-ins and be prepared to bring any kind of weirdness to their attention.

This has happened to me on non-opioid PAIN medication. This can happen to people on certain antibiotics, and they can get so lost in side effects, they don't have the wherewithal to know it's the medication that's causing the problem.

So, IMO, if CW suffered from depression (or whatever), he had an obligation to seek help and an obligation to make sure the side effects of any medication weren't dangerously adverse. This is mature adult behavior around health issues.

Yes yes yes, and if you are incapable of being proactive about your own health, please seek a trusted family member to act as medical power of attorney for you.

 

[RickshawFan]

I think we've been over this before on the forum and there wasn't really anything concerning in the patches/vitamins that could be linked to rages and violence.

The general problem is there aren't studies or quality controls to be certain about this, and vitamins aren't regulated. So, there's no way to tell what's in them.

I am a vitamin taker....

 

[OTPTarheel2018]

I think CWs affairs were his way to get SW to leave, to file for divorce. I have often heard that a man will “behave badly” to push his wife to end a marriage/file for divorce. And I think someone told SW things to confirm CWs hints. But she was not a quitter and was going to make it work!

I heard this “men behaving badly theory” from my therapist during counseling with my X.
My therapist was correct.

JMO

 

[ZsaZsa]

Thanks. Unfortunately in many cases I have followed, there is a tremendous amount of face saving when/if the defendant explains what happened. Parts are left out, and the details glossed over. They almost always leave something to be desired.

YES! Excuse a shudder while I recall Jodi Arias' allocution!

 

[Bill Carson]

While we're on the subject of substances, something we haven't discussed AFAIK is the possibility that CW was doing drugs. If he was seeking out casual gay sex, it wouldn't surprise me if there were drugs involved, too. Plus, he worked in the oilfield, which is notorious for drug use.

I did find this local article that talks about the concern about drugs in the expanding oilfield near Greeley, Colorado, which is just north of Frederick. Company representatives from Anadarko are quoted in the article.

Zero tolerance for drugs in the oilfield

 

[skyedaze]

To me, and this is JMHO..he is a narcissist and got tired of the life skit he was playing in. New lovers (to put it nicely) cost money. His current life was too expensive and was about to come crashing down,so he wanted a "clean" reset with no financial responsibility (no divorce, no child support, no bad reputation), look good like a victim, get sappy people to start a gofund me so you don't have to pay for funerals or the mortgage...and you are set free smelling like a rose.

So, old life had to go and had to go in a way where he would not look bad. That was his mindset....MOO.

And btw..I'm quoting myself but...I think this whole thing is so intriguing and so difficult to grasp because in an evil way, it is just so scary simple. He wanted a cheap reset with no responsibility for it or from it. With another kid or a divorce and child support payments that just could not happen. So they had to go...in only this way from his perspective..the only option.
The rest of us just don't think this way naturally so we can't easily make sense of it.

I get it, but I still shake my head in disbelief..even though I believe it.
"But he looks so normal", lol..but he so is not. But he looks like any of us...yes..he does.

So like one person asked, "How do you spot that?" Well, it's hard...because they are good at looking normal...just like the rest of us.

 

[stereopticons]

Anti-depressants do cause you to kill or commit suicide. Once such case is the Columbine killer. He was on them and there are Many other cases. That is why the pharm co. (won't name it) has over 3000 lawsuits against it for this. They make a balanced mind unbalanced in some individuals. Yes the pharm company has blood on their hands. You think they will take them off the market? NOO it's a money maker.

No. No. Antidepressants can in some cases cause a paradoxical reaction and increase depression and suicidal thoughts but they do not cause homicidal violence. Antidepressants save a lot more lives than they take. The FDA reports ANY adverse reaction, no matter how rare/common. And just because someone committed a violent act while on antidepressants does NOT mean they caused it. Please don’t demonize antidepressants. As I said, they save a lot of lives and even if CW happened to be on them, it would not in any way excuse what he did.