CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #16

[Bill Carson]

@gitana and bill... do you think that they would get in? is the probative vs. Prejudicial outweighing?

Um....I'm going to guess that the media interviews might be introduced during the punishment phase of the trial. I can't think of why they might be relevant to the guilt or innocence phase.....well, unless CW testifies, in which case it could be used to show he had a different story before, i.e., goes to his credibility and truthfulness.

Sort of like this....

ETA: From what I have heard about the punishment for the charges, if convicted CW will receive an automatic sentence of life without parole. In that case, there would be no punishment phase of the trial. If the state does decide to seek the death penalty, then the jury (or judge) would have to decide between death and life without parole. I think he will plead and get life w/o parole.

 

[Bluefield]

I have reviewed their 2015 filing. I agree that most debts would have been wiped out, with the exception of student loan debt.
I am not convinced that they reaffirmed their debt (which is required to keep the house), seeing as they had a $3,000/mo mortgage and less than $900 total in checking/savings accounts.
CW owned a Ford Mustang with almost 100,000 miles on it. At the time SW was leasing a car.
We do not know what happened between the time their debt was discharged in 2015 and 2018 except for in those 3 years, SW quit her job at the call center & began MLM & CW began at Anadarko. He had a company car & she leased a Lexus through Thrive.
It is realistic to think that they were able to rack up more CC debt during these 3 years. I do not know that this happened, but I do know they would’ve been able to get cards after BK (although with staggeringly high interest rates) and they seemed to be having financial difficulties per family sources.
We also know that they had a court date on Aug 24th because they were being sued by their HOA for unpaid dues.

How are you able to review this information?

 

[MassGuy]

I have reviewed their 2015 filing. I agree that most debts would have been wiped out, with the exception of student loan debt.
I am not convinced that they reaffirmed their debt (which is required to keep the house), seeing as they had a $3,000/mo mortgage and less than $900 total in checking/savings accounts.
CW owned a Ford Mustang with almost 100,000 miles on it. At the time SW was leasing a car.
We do not know what happened between the time their debt was discharged in 2015 and 2018 except for in those 3 years, SW quit her job at the call center & began MLM & CW began at Anadarko. He had a company car & she leased a Lexus through Thrive.
It is realistic to think that they were able to rack up more CC debt during these 3 years. I do not know that this happened, but I do know they would’ve been able to get cards after BK (although with staggeringly high interest rates) and they seemed to be having financial difficulties per family sources.
We also know that they had a court date on Aug 24th because they were being sued by their HOA for unpaid dues.

Thanks for that. Whether finances were a motive remains to be proven, but it definitely does appear that they were not in solid financial shape.

 

[kay74]

No. No. Antidepressants can in some cases cause a paradoxical reaction and increase depression and suicidal thoughts but they do not cause homicidal violence. Antidepressants save a lot more lives than they take. The FDA reports ANY adverse reaction, no matter how rare/common. And just because someone committed a violent act while on antidepressants does NOT mean they caused it. Please don’t demonize antidepressants. As I said, they save a lot of lives and even if CW happened to be on them, it would not in any way excuse what he did.[
One example, I had a relative who was depressed. His doctor put him on Prozac. While on this he tried committing suicide three times twice slitting his wrists and once driving his car into a lake. He survived, went off the Prozac and it's been over 26 years and has never tried antidepressants again or suicide!!

 

[Layla123]

What delusions was he suffering from?

That his life would improve significantly if he murdered his wife. That his relationships with the people who loved her were strong enough for them to believe whatever story he planned to tell about his family’s disappearance.

 

[MerryB]

That’s absolutely true. But saying that he may be one, or even that he likely is, isn’t a stretch. His behavior appears to be narcissistic in nature, his lack of empathy, his self focus in his interviews, his lack of awareness (we could tell he was lying), his lack of remorse, manipulation of the media, etc.

Of course we are not medical experts, and the condition requires a diagnosis by a trained professional.

We actually have 2 professionals that I know of in our WS community! @CARIIS (therapist) and @MindHunter13 (forensic psych)

 

[MerryB]

How are you able to review this information?

It’s public record.

 

[MyBelle]

You’re absolutely right. We don’t know. However, psychotic disorders are hard to hide, and if he had one and was medicated, we would likely have heard about bizarre behavior in his past. I’m not saying he had no mental illness (though as I’ve mentioned before, individuals with mental illness are much more likely to be victims of violence than perpetrators). All I’m saying is of the broad spectrum of mental illnesses he could have, a psychotic disorder seems unlikely. But JMO, of course

We really don't know anything about CW's adult life prior to the move to CO. I do believe murdering children and throwing them into a vat of crude oil does count as bizarre behavior. But that's JMO, of course.

 

[Jennifer17]

He probably would have attempted suicide whether or not he was on Prozac.
He was depressed enough to seek medical help.
Either way, one case does not form a body of evidence. Many people attempt suicide and never do it again whether they are on medication or not.

 

[RickshawFan]

I think CWs affairs were his way to get SW to leave, to file for divorce. I have often heard that a man will “behave badly” to push his wife to end a marriage/file for divorce. And I think someone told SW things to confirm CWs hints. But she was not a quitter and was going to make it work!

I heard this “men behaving badly theory” from my therapist during counseling with my X.
My therapist was correct.

JMO

I find this kind of odd. You'd have an affair not because you were interested in having an affair, but to provoke your spouse into filing for divorce?

Surely, you choose to have an affair, because you choose to have an affair. You could just as easily ruin the family financially (which he did; I suppose that's one way of getting around child/spousal support). OR you could merely pretend you had a new girl friend. Yeppers, just pretending would do the trick if the only goal was to provoke your wife into divorce.

So, I don't buy the "behaving badly" theory.

Which reminds me. Nothing here is real, folks. Even CW's "confession" that he had a girlfriend at work could be self-aggrandizing BS. He could have manufactured the "boyfriend". As I demonstrated above, "pretend" would have the same effect as "for real." All of this stuff could be malarkey. All of it could be made up for some ulterior motive.

 

[stereopticons]

I’m sorry that happened to your relative. It can have a paradoxical effect, as I said. It’s rare, but it happens. But you can’t say antidepressants cause violent behavior, and for every one story like yours, there are thousands of people who have been helped by antidepressants.

 

[Bluefield]

It’s public record.

I didn't know that. But now I do, thanks!

 

[Hazelnutty]

Welcome @grillzgirl . Glad to have you with us. It was heartwrenching to see those 3 white hearses streaming live from the chapel today. I cannot imagine driving by and seeing them that close. God bless.

 

[stereopticons]

We really don't know anything about CW's adult life prior to the move to CO. I do believe murdering children and throwing them into a vat of crude oil does count as bizarre behavior. But that's JMO, of course.

What I mean by bizarre behavior is expressing unusual thoughts, odd or rambling speech, gestures, etc. Psychotic disorders are usually preceded by a prodromal phase where they aren’t fully psychotic but still seem “odd”.

ETA: prodromal phase is usually evident in late adolescence/early adulthood.

 

[Hazelnutty]

I also believe he was intending to start a fire and then large explosion . Possibly he was waiting until he got the remainder of "evidence " from home? Sheets, bedding, medications, etc.

 

[Tigerlily75]

Saying he is a narcissist would be ignorant in my opinion. No one can make that diagnosis about someone they have never met, not even an expert. It's one thing to say he might be, but some are stating it as fact. IMO

Narcissists are rarely diagnosed as they typically don't seek help. Effectively they are diagnosed from the outside, such as my ex by our daughters psychologist. The thing with true Narcs is that once you've had dealings with one, you recognize it in others. But you're right, it's not fact. It's also irrelevant in a court of law anyway as he'll be tried on his actions and not on a disorder

 

[Elle*Bee]

[QUOTE="Ronso, post: 14352448, member: 61135”]

ETA: You'll never hear a Type-A male described as "bossy", "pushy", "nagging", etc... you'll hear him described as driven, passionate, and hard-working. [/QUOTE]

Respectfully snipped by me. I’m way behind on this thread, but I cannot like this post enough. It’s so important for daughters (and sons!) to realize this.

 

[Carolina Mom]

And he’ll never get to wear that stupid shirt again!

Well the shirt is not stupid, but CW certainly is! A complete disgrace to all Tarheel fans!

 

[skyedaze]

I find this kind of odd. You'd have an affair not because you were interested in having an affair, but to provoke your spouse into filing for divorce?

Surely, you choose to have an affair, because you choose to have an affair. You could just as easily ruin the family financially (which he did; I suppose that's one way of getting around child/spousal support). OR you could merely pretend you had a new girl friend. Yeppers, just pretending would do the trick if the only goal was to provoke your wife into divorce.

So, I don't buy the "behaving badly" theory.

Which reminds me. Nothing here is real, folks. Even CW's "confession" that he had a girlfriend at work could be self-aggrandizing BS. He could have manufactured the "boyfriend". As I demonstrated above, "pretend" would have the same effect as "for real." All of this stuff could be malarkey. All of it could be made up for some ulterior motive.

Actually, any divorce attorney can tell you the behaving badly theory is very real. Again, not wanting to take responsibility.. to be the one to file.

 

[katydid23]

Um....I'm going to guess that the media interviews might be introduced during the punishment phase of the trial. I can't think of why they might be relevant to the guilt or innocence phase.....well, unless CW testifies, in which case it could be used to show he had a different story before, i.e., goes to his credibility and truthfulness.

Sort of like this....

ETA: From what I have heard about the punishment for the charges, if convicted CW will receive an automatic sentence of life without parole. In that case, there would be no punishment phase of the trial. If the state does decide to seek the death penalty, then the jury (or judge) would have to decide between death and life without parole. I think he will plead and get life w/o parole.

Yes, as to the bolded above. In the Jodi Arias trial, the jury watched a few of her notorious TV interviews, like Inside Edition. And it was as you described---to show her lack of credibility/truthfulness. Her new version of events was quite different from what she told Inside Edition.

So the question is, can CW use his current defense---SW KILLED THEM---even if he doesn't testify? Can he just have the defense show his confession tapes, describing the killings?

If so, then I think they can still bring in these interviews, to showcase his total lack of credibility.