CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #16

[mickey2942]

I wonder if CW is on suicide watch. Or what he is thinking. He probably knows his lame story went over like a lead balloon.

If anyone watched the body language in the courtroom, even his own defense team couldn't stand him. Their bodies were turned away from him.

 

[katydid23]

In Europe, if you have a disorder, you can't be tried.

So what happens? They drop the charges if the rapist has a mental disorder?

 

[Jennifer17]

In Europe, if you have a disorder, you can't be tried.

What? If you have a personality disorder or if you are deemed legally insane?

 

[Shahana]

Not fit to stand trial, mentally or physically.

 

[NanZDrew]

Thank you for posting that. I did see a little bit of bracketed information referring to CW. I presume those are your notes, right? Thank you.

I understand a little bit better about narcissism now, but I'm having problems identifying behaviors of CW that indicate the narcissism or symptoms of it. I mean, I get that he killed his entire family but not himself, and I guess that's Exhibit A, and the interviews with the news media on Tuesday seemed more concerned about himself, but what do you see in CW's demeanor and presentation before the murders indicates narcissism? Everything I saw said "Shy Chris," "devoted to his family," "great husband," "reserved," "stayed to himself," and all that. But obviously I'm not seeing what you and the others are seeing. What should I be looking for?

For instance, the biggest thing in the above seems to be "narcissists lack empathy." What do you see from before the murders that indicates to you that he lacks empathy?

Also, a narcissist rarely commits suicide because they think too much of themselves. They also tend to committ crimes because they think they are too smart to get caught.

 

[MassGuy]

I'm thinking his new, buff body was boosting his self-esteem and getting him attention that he hadn't had before.

Sometimes, someone who suddenly develops an interest in getting in shape, and improving themselves physically in other ways, has motives other than health on their mind. Just because your partner does this, doesn’t mean they are looking to have an affair, but taken together with other signs, may be a cause for concern.

 

[SaguaroSpirit]

I also believe he was intending to start a fire and then large explosion . Possibly he was waiting until he got the remainder of "evidence " from home? Sheets, bedding, medications, etc.

Like Josh Powell.

 

[Jennifer17]

Not fit to stand trial, mentally or physically.

But that would be insanity not just a personality disorder.

 

[Shahana]

But that would be insanity not just a personality disorder.

What's the difference?

 

[Bill Carson]

Didn't the defense already embrace that theory by trying to get their own expert witness to observe the autopsies and collection of DNA?

Yes, but that was very early on, and they had to file the motion right away because the autopsy was about to happen. In other words, the defense hadn't had much time at all to investigate the case, and the only evidence they likely had access to was the arrest affidavit and any communications with their client. That doesn't lock them in to that theory or anything.

 

[Jennifer17]

What's the difference?

Plenty of difference. Do you think that that Belgian man who locked the little girls up in the basement and left them there to die after he was arrested didn't have a personality disorder?
He was tried and found guilty.

 

[pocketaccent]

Right, But it was his work truck and he did a lot of driving, some on remote roads. So he might have just always had a small gas can for emergencies. I'd like to know if that was a new addition or it was in there for months already.

His neighbor's video camera captured him loading up garbage bags and a gas can into his truck the morning of murder.

 

[Jennifer17]

His neighbor's video camera captured him loading up garbage bags and a gas can into his truck the morning of murder.

Maybe his truck needed fuel and he did not want to call in to a gas station because of what he had in his truck.

 

[PommyMommy]

It was a call center at a hospital.

Thank you. I think I was down some other rabbit hole when many of you were discussing the financial stuff. Do you happen to know how much of the $70k unsecured debt in 2015 was student loan debt?

 

[mtnlites]

Discussing this case is weird. No matter how you try to explain it, it sounds like you're victim blaming and it's mostly because we just don't have a lot of information of things prior to the crime. Here are a few things that people have said that "may" have lead to his state of mind: they were spending too much, she was traveling a lot, he was taking care of "small children" after work, her career was taking off, they were in financial trouble, he was tired of trying to live up to the perfect life that she showed on social media, he couldn't keep up with her ambitions, he was gay and stuck in his marriage...

Perhaps some of those things affected his mental health or something. If it did, then that's too bad and I am sorry that he didn't seek help. In general, however, I have zero compassion for him. MANY men are single dads or house husbands or full-time caregivers for their children and they don't flip and take out their whole family in one night. They were having financial trouble? Welcome to 2018. I don't have a single friend right now who isn't living paycheck to paycheck. My husband and I are self-employed and our incomes depend upon how the general public feels about us; it's feast or famine. Lots of people who run small businesses or are self-employed live this way. We don't actually know that they were overspending, that's something that was ascertained from looking at her social media pages and from the $1500 HOA court fee (which, again, we don't know a lot about). She seemed to travel a lot for work, but he mostly seemed to be with her. If this was a problem for him, he didn't have to go. However, if we're drawing conclusions from social media, I'd say he looks pretty happy.

As far as the "perfect" life she presented on social media? Again, let me introduce you to my friends' list where 80% of the people are the perfect business women with immaculate homes who throw their angelic and super-intelligent children perfect Pinterest-worthy birthday parties.(The fact that the majority of their house is actually a pig sty and their children are bratty little ninjas that curse better than me is a non-issue on Facebook.) My husband can't stand the whole FB and IG thing...so he doesn't get on there. I snap lots of pictures of him. It literally takes less than a second and then he has no idea what I do with the picture afterwards.

He was having sexual feelings towards the same sex, then he could have addressed that in the same way that many men in similar situations have before: address the feelings with a marriage counselor or separate from his wife while he explores these feelings and decides what he wants to do.

If CW was having issues with anything then he had two choices: address them with a marriage counselor or get out of the marriage.

At the end of the day, he had no more "issues" in his marriage and home life than many, MANY other men have. (I, personally, drive my own husband crazy.) These men, however, do not kill their wives and they certainly don't kill their children. I don't believe in internet diagnosing from a few interviews and social media posts, but IMO whatever finally tipped the scales was his problem and not anything that Shanann could have controlled.

 

[dixiegirl1035]

Yes, as to the bolded above. In the Jodi Arias trial, the jury watched a few of her notorious TV interviews, like Inside Edition. And it was as you described---to show her lack of credibility/truthfulness. Her new version of events was quite different from what she told Inside Edition.

So the question is, can CW use his current defense---SW KILLED THEM---even if he doesn't testify? Can he just have the defense show his confession tapes, describing the killings?

If so, then I think they can still bring in these interviews, to showcase his total lack of credibility.

Those were my thoughts also, but you say it much better than I did before! Thanks.

I just couldn't understand why it would only come in the mitigation phase and the sentencing phase, as I would think it would come in the case of Chief.

ETA.. in the arias case, I think it came up in rebuttal

 

[skyedaze]

In Europe, if you have a disorder, you can't be tried.

Not exactly correct.

 

[Bill Carson]

Sometimes, someone who suddenly develops an interest in getting in shape, and improving themselves physically in other ways, has motives other than health on their mind. Just because your partner does this, doesn’t mean they are looking to have an affair, but taken together with other signs, may be a cause for concern.

Losing weight and getting in shape can also increase libido. And the Thrive #Burn supplement contained something called Forslean 95, which was supposed to be beneficial in many ways, one of which was to increase testosterone production. I'm sure he was suddenly experiencing virility that he had not seen since high school.

Edited to correct typo.

 

[pocketaccent]

Maybe his truck needed fuel and he did not want to call in to a gas station because of what he had in his truck.

He could have filled up the truck in his garage. He carried it instead. Strange.

 

[Tigerlily75]

What's the difference?

The difference is knowing the difference between right and wrong at the time you commit an offence.

It takes a lot to be declared criminally insane. A personality disorder won't do it, and most mental illnesses won't either. You can have either and still know that what you're doing is wrong.

Every serial killer would get off free if people with people personality disorders couldn't be tried. Psychopathy is a personality disorder. But they know the difference between right and wrong. They just don't care.