CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #18

[MassGuy]

Or it was a sales pitch

Absolutely could be. Many of her posts were exactly that, and her post in regard to this, certainly jibes with that idea.

 

[dixiegirl1035]

Defendants charged with murder or attempted murder may seek to mitigate the charges against them by claiming, and proving, that when they intentionally murdered or attempted to murder their victim, they did so under the influence of an extreme emotional disturbance (EED) for which there was a reasonable explanation or excuse.

Extreme Emotional Disturbance (Forensic Psychology) - iResearchNet

Can I assume, for a lay person, that is known as a crime of passion?

 

[Bill Carson]

What happens if the defense attorney discovers that it’s impossible to determine that a child’s skin has turned blue on type of baby monitor the defendant has?

The thing is, CW is not going to be able to make an arguable case that SW strangled the children unless he testifies. The jury would want to hear his explanation from his own lips. And he would be awful on cross examination.

I think his defense attorneys need to steer the case away from any defense that would require the client to testify. Ultimately, it is up to the defendant, not the attorneys, whether or not to testify in his own defense. But they would need to warn him of the dangers of testifying----that most criminal defendants who testify come out looking worse (i.e., more guilty) than if they had not testified at all. IMO. Especially after you put your babies in oil tanks.

 

[MerryB]

What if SW was thinking about staying in NC and it was mentioned that he needed to delete facebook and stop the affair in order for her to bring the kids home. Once they get home, then he realizes he really didn't want it or maybe somehow he just realizes how awesome it was being single for those weeks. The AP could have done something as well to make him snap and he got rid of his family. I don't know if we really will ever know, even when it goes to court.

I’m leaning towards he didn’t want AP to see him with her family bc he’d said they were separated. But I could be wrong! SW definitely seems to me like she’d be VERY aware of his SM. I even suspicion she posted his Insta stuff. So maybe he didn’t want her getting on & seeing his friends list or messenger or something like that.

 

[BetzC]

I have a pretty good understanding about autism, and he does not exhibit enough symptoms to make me suspect he is on the spectrum: at least not diagnosable.

But the way he presents is similar, IMO, to the way that social awkwardness can present itself in autism, yes.

WRT the lack of social intelligence, remember that SW herself described CW as not having any "game," and said she had to make all of the moves when they were dating. Also, the Thrive gave him the ability to "talk to strangers" (her words, I believe), which is the way that stimulants may affect a person with ADHD.

From the videos I've seen, CW has a very flat affect. I think that may be where the idea that he may be on the spectrum is coming from. It's possible. He always seems to be behaving/responding the way he thinks he is supposed to. Then again, FB and IG videos are only a snippet of real life. Maybe he was just uncomfortable in front of a camera.

I would agree with the "no game" statement though. He is not charming at all. Definitely not the type of person people are drawn to. He's just kind of there.

 

[Bill Carson]

From the videos I've seen, CW has a very flat affect. I think that may be where the idea that he may be on the spectrum is coming from. It's possible. He always seems to be behaving/responding the way he thinks he is supposed to. Then again, FB and IG videos are only a snippet of real life. Maybe he was just uncomfortable in front of a camera.

I would agree with the "no game" statement though. He is not charming at all. Definitely not the type of person people are drawn to. He's just kind of there.

Yes! You described it better than I did. "Flat affect." Precisely.

 

[Shekkiec]

The thing is, CW is not going to be able to make an arguable case that SW strangled the children unless he testifies. The jury would want to hear his explanation from his own lips. And he would be awful on cross examination.

I think his defense attorneys need to steer the case away from any defense that would require the client to testify. Ultimately, it is up to the defendant, not the attorneys, whether or not to testify in his own defense. But they would need to warn him of the dangers of testifying----that most criminal defendants who testify come out looking worse (i.e., more guilty) than if they had not testified at all. IMO. Especially after you put your babies in oil tanks.

Agree

 

[dixiegirl1035]

I want to see the tape of his confession to the police when he talks of seeing Bella sprawled out and blue and SW strangling CeCe. Did he express any emotion, or did he use his on the front porch monotone?

And was he wearing a shirt at the time of his interview which he was so proud of, that his wife had bought him? Oh yes, we must add in unnecessarily that it was purchased perhaps through Amazon!

 

[Mrspratcher]

would this fall into those guidelines
'Absolutely No Evidence' Shan'ann Watts Killed Her Daughters: Police Source

@Shekkiec

The article references a source close to the investigation which can be LE or the prosecution. If it’s the prosecution then it would be a violation of the Rules of Professional Conduct.

 

[Deleted member 117120]

While SW was in NC she posted a picture of baby clothes that she purchased for the unborn child. They were blue in shades but SW said they were unisex.
SW said to a friend on Facebook in response to that picture, that she thought she was having another girl but was hoping for a boy.
So at that point SW did not know the sex of the child on July 14th based on her comment.
When SW came back from NC and went to AZ within days, I don''t imagine SW had a doctor appointment between those dates to confirm the sex.
Did she have one in NC after July 14th and/or before she returned to CO?
If SW did, I would have assumed she would have posted something on SM about the sex of the child (although she may have wanted to save the news for a gender reveal party that we know she had planned).
Or, was the sex determined of the child after she was murdered due to the condition of her body when she was discovered? I am thinking that is the case and the family was told by LE that the baby was a little boy.

 

[MerryB]

While SW was in NC she posted a picture of baby clothes that she purchased for the unborn child. The were blue in shades.
SW said to a friend on Facebook in response to that picture, that she thought she was having another girl but was hoping for a boy.
So at that point SW did not know the sex of the child on July 14th based on her comment.
When SW came back from NC and went to AZ within days, I don''t imagine SW had a doctor appointment between those dates to confirm the sex.
Did she have one in NC after July 14th and/or before she returned to CO?
If SW did, I would have assumed she would have posted something on SM.
Or, was the sex determined of the child after she was murdered due to the condition of her body when she was discovered? I am thinking that is the case and the family was told by LE.

You are assuming SW told the truth on SM.

 

[BeckyF]

I agree that financial trouble plays a major role in the killings. I don't think medical expenses played a big role (though maybe). Instead, I think they spent more than they earned and they didn't pay their bills. Simple as that.

All the other stuff is bad, too, of course. He might have strayed because of the financial situation as well - a way of running away rather than rolling up his sleeves and doing what it takes to solve the money issues, like downsizing, getting a second job, etc. People can survive financial crises - he chose to destroy his family instead.

I do think perhaps the pregnancy ruined his story that he and his wife were no longer intimate. With SW's public SM, it wouldn't be hard for APs to find out the truth. And, if he was fearful of same-sex relationships being exposed, that is likely a big factor too.

But, I think the crux of all this is money problems.

jmo

I wonder if SW shared their financial problems with anyone in her immediate family. I've also wondered if anyone in her family ever noticed CW to be 'off' somehow or if they just had a ? in their minds about something he did or said.

 

[Layla123]

The thing is, CW is not going to be able to make an arguable case that SW strangled the children unless he testifies. The jury would want to hear his explanation from his own lips. And he would be awful on cross examination.

I think his defense attorneys need to steer the case away from any defense that would require the client to testify. Ultimately, it is up to the defendant, not the attorneys, whether or not to testify in his own defense. But they would need to warn him of the dangers of testifying----that most criminal defendants who testify come out looking worse (i.e., more guilty) than if they had not testified at all. IMO. Especially after you put your babies in oil tanks.

But LE has that taped (I assume) confession. Won’t they play that in court?

 

[MassGuy]

While SW was in NC she posted a picture of baby clothes that she purchased for the unborn child. The were blue in shades.
SW said to a friend on Facebook in response to that picture, that she thought she was having another girl but was hoping for a boy.
So at that point SW did not know the sex of the child on July 14th based on her comment.
When SW came back from NC and went to AZ within days, I don''t imagine SW had a doctor appointment between those dates to confirm the sex.
Did she have one in NC after July 14th and/or before she returned to CO?
If SW did, I would have assumed she would have posted something on SM.
Or, was the sex determined of the child after she was murdered due to the condition of her body when she was discovered? I am thinking that is the case and the family was told by LE.

They were going to do the gender reveal that weekend, but she didn’t survive that long. In order to do that, she would have needed to go to another appointment. So I don’t think she knew personally at that time, although a friend might have, had the appointment already taken place.
Edit* A few family members already knew the gender, so that appointment had already taken place.

 

[mtnlites]

Do we know it was Fentanyl and not something else that he pretended was Fentanyl in order to be "cool"? I don't even know how someone would procure a patch unless it was r/x'd after surgery or for something like cancer. My cat had a Fentanyl patch when he had to have jaw and dental surgery, and it was wrapped around his leg for a week. It was a clear patch but didn't have the words "Fentanyl" on.

I am on Fentanyl, have been for 2 years. None of my patches have ever had the name written on them.

 

[dixiegirl1035]

I'm going to invite the other lawyers or people with knowledge of the criminal law to correct me if I am wrong, but...

If I understand the criminal law correctly, and assuming that the state does not seek the death penalty, I think that a conviction of these pending charges would carry an automatic sentence of life without the possibility of parole. That means there would be no punishment phase of this trial. No friends to take the stand to testify about what an upstanding guy CW is; no experts talking about recidivism; none of that.

Now, I suppose the defense attorneys will probably try to make the case any way they can that CW didn't have the mental capacity to act intentionally, and if the are successful, maybe the charge is lowered to a Murder 2 charge or something like that, but I think (IMO) that approach is very unlikely to succeed.

I thought only the prosecution could make charges, and the defense could not make them lower a charge. I'm confused.

Are you saying this would be done before the trial, or during the trial?

 

[Mrspratcher]

I wish I knew what they were referring to. Which bit of info that we've heard? Any guesses? Curiosity burning.

Also, does it mean the defense is worried? On top of things? Grasping at straws? Covering all bases? I'm not familiar with these.

@SweetPeas56

Same here!

Defense is doing their job. They have to limit pre-trial publicity. They don’t want potential jurors forming opinions before they walk into the courtroom.

 

[MassGuy]

I thought only the prosecution could make charges, and the defense could not make them lower a charge. I'm confused.

Are you saying this would be done before the trial, or during the trial?

He’s saying that the defense could try and convince the jury to sentence the defendant to a lesser charge.

 

[Deleted member 117120]

You are assuming SW told the truth on SM.

Why would SW not tell the truth on SM in reference to her personal posts? I think SW was "too open a book" to a fault actually.

 

[dixiegirl1035]

Thanks for the clarification.
What I can say is based on SW public Facebook page:
SW and CW went on a Thrive business trip to San Diego from June 22 ~ June 26th, 2018.
It appears SW and CW landed back in CO June 26th, 2018 and 12 hours later CW and SW flew with their daughters to NC.
SW was still posting photos of CW and herself together as a couple on June 24th and June 25th, 2018.
By all accounts, the photos SW posted of CW and herself during that business trip and the subsequent travel to NC they looked relaxed and happy.
Not sure what happened after that point in time.

Is it just getting too late for me to read the threads, because I thought he only went for the last week?