CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #18

[SweetPeas56]

@SweetPeas56

Same here!

Defense is doing their job. They have to limit pre-trial publicity. They don’t want potential jurors forming opinions before they walk into the courtroom.

Thanks!

 

[MassGuy]

They are on top of the tank. They are round and usually 24-36 inches in diameter. They are hard to see in an aerial photo. I just know this from being at wellsites.

What perplexes me, is why Shanann wasn’t put in one of those tanks. Do you think she wouldn’t have fit?

 

[ACE422]

SBM.

Welcome to Websleuths. You've obviously put some time and effort into your first post. However, I think you'll find that most of the posters here are not very interested in speculating all the possible ways that CW's story could be true.

If anything, I am much more likely to consider the possibility that CW experienced some sort of psychotic event than I am that SW did. But it's still a reach.

Keep working at it.

I absolutely believe this to be a possibility. Because nothing else makes sense to me.

Except, Chris was wearing the most powerful black Thrive patches (sometimes 2 at time) plus drinking the shakes.

I certainly didn't mean to upset anyone, just had not seen much speculation on CW claims and my mind likes to entertain all possibilities.

These are very valid points and I have certainly considered both of these. There are many legal and illegal substances that can impact human behavior. If there was a known history of abuse, control , it would make more "sense." But, I haven't seen reports of this and SW seemed to be the "leader" in the relationship while CW was the follower (according the videos I watched IMO, but these are a "selective" view of their reality, too). Some kind of psychosis (no matter what the cause) is the only reason that allows me some kind of understanding.
It's possible that CW is just a monster? Absolutely. . The sloppiness of the "cover up" and choice of burial sites just makes me think that he was psychotic or he was not nearly as bright as some people claimed was.

 

[NanZDrew]

I looked at the CERVI 319 site photos for cameras too. I wasn't able to determine if there were cameras but when I have time, I hope to find some better pictures and check again.

ETA: Good morning to you too!

on
@dgfred. Not sure if the pictures show on my reply, but look where the steps go up to the tanks. The manway is on the top edge of the tank near the railing. The manway is flat, no but about two inches or less in thickness, so it doesn't show up on these photos.

 

[katydid23]

The more I learn about this tragedy the more CW reminds me of Scott Peterson.

He seems like a cross between Scott Peterson and Ross Harris. And that's not a compliment.

Everyone said Ross was a such a good father. And people liked him a lot, thought he was a real nice guy.

Then his secret dark side was revealed. Lots of random hook ups, and sexting, and hookers and sex with a minor.

And much like CW, Ross initially garnered suspicion because he acted so odd after the tragic death of his child. Made small talk with the cop on the way to the station, acted calm during the interview.

 

[Jennifer17]

I absolutely believe this to be a possibility. Because nothing else makes sense to me.


I certainly didn't mean to upset anyone, just had not seen much speculation on CW claims and my mind likes to entertain all possibilities.

These are very valid points and I have certainly considered both of these. There are many legal and illegal substances that can impact human behavior. If there was a known history of abuse, control , it would make more "sense." But, I haven't seen reports of this and SW seemed to be the "leader" in the relationship while CW was the follower (according the videos I watched IMO, but these are a "selective" view of their reality, too). Some kind of psychosis (no matter what the cause) is the only reason that allows me some kind of understanding.
It's possible that CW is just a monster? Absolutely. . The sloppiness of the "cover up" and choice of burial sites just makes me think that he was psychotic or he was not nearly as bright as some people claimed was.

The only people who have claimed he was bright are Shanann and his auto shop teacher. No offence meant to people who do auto shop, but it is not really an academic subject.
I don't know if it is the same in the US, but where I live it is the least academic students who take those classes.

 

[katydid23]

Yeah, I was watching a doc on the MacDonald case and its creepily familiar.

And MacDonald was taking diet pills for 4 days and had barely slept. Potential similarity right there.

 

[scarlettbones]

What perplexes me, is why Shanann wasn’t put in one of those tanks. Do you think she wouldn’t have fit?

Imo, I think it was a final f*** you to shannan, he took the girls away from her in life and he was going to keep them apart in death.

 

[NanZDrew]

What perplexes me, is why Shanann wasn’t put in one of those tanks. Do you think she wouldn’t have fit?

What perplexes me, is why Shanann wasn’t put in one of those tanks. Do you think she wouldn’t have fit?

Look at Reply #69 on this thread. It has pictures of the tanks. You can see the ladder. It is a steep climb up about 20-30 feet. Those stairs are not extremely sturdy. It would be very hard to carry a grown, dead woman up those steps without risking falling.

 

[Jennifer17]

And MacDonald was taking diet pills for 4 days and had barely slept. Potential similarity right there.

In the seventies one of my friends took diet pills and was up all night, every night cleaning out cupboards in her house, not murdering her family. Her husband flushed the pills down the toilet and she wasn't even overweight, just had a bit of post pregnancy flabbiness.

 

[Jennifer17]

I absolutely believe this to be a possibility. Because nothing else makes sense to me.


I certainly didn't mean to upset anyone, just had not seen much speculation on CW claims and my mind likes to entertain all possibilities.

These are very valid points and I have certainly considered both of these. There are many legal and illegal substances that can impact human behavior. If there was a known history of abuse, control , it would make more "sense." But, I haven't seen reports of this and SW seemed to be the "leader" in the relationship while CW was the follower (according the videos I watched IMO, but these are a "selective" view of their reality, too). Some kind of psychosis (no matter what the cause) is the only reason that allows me some kind of understanding.
It's possible that CW is just a monster? Absolutely. . The sloppiness of the "cover up" and choice of burial sites just makes me think that he was psychotic or he was not nearly as bright as some people claimed was.

You obviously have not read every post on every thread. There were people who were blaming SW for killing the children because she had mad eyes or that he only put his children in dirty oil to keep them warm or near him. Or blaming her because she had emasculated him. If a man's masculinity is so fragile that a woman can do that, he is not much of a man.

 

[katydid23]

I’m not a lawyer but I see three options here:
1. Stick with this ridiculous story.
2. Some sort of temporary insanity defense.
3. Plea

There simply aren’t any viable options that offer much hope for him. I’m more than ok with that!

I am afraid he is going to get some advice from jail house lawyers and say something like this:

I lied when I said my wife killed the girls. I was out of my mind with shock and grief. I was desperate.

The truth is, I was taking a supplement that had very bad side effects. I couldn't sleep or eat. I was going off the deep end, hallucinating and I didn't realize what was happening to me. I was erratic and irrational.

I ask for mercy because I have no idea how I could have done that to my family, that I loved so much.

 

[MassGuy]

I am afraid he is going to get some advice from jail house lawyers and say something like this:

I lied when I said my wife killed the girls. I was out of my mind with shock and grief. I was desperate.

The truth is, I was taking a supplement that had very bad side effects. I couldn't sleep or eat. I was going off the deep end, hallucinating and I didn't realize what was happening to me. I was erratic and irrational.

I ask for mercy because I have no idea how I could have done that to my family, that I loved so much.

“Good. Now which arm do you want that needle?”

 

[MassGuy]

I am afraid he is going to get some advice from jail house lawyers and say something like this:

I lied when I said my wife killed the girls. I was out of my mind with shock and grief. I was desperate.

The truth is, I was taking a supplement that had very bad side effects. I couldn't sleep or eat. I was going off the deep end, hallucinating and I didn't realize what was happening to me. I was erratic and irrational.

I ask for mercy because I have no idea how I could have done that to my family, that I loved so much.

In all seriousness though, your scenario isn’t a crazy one, atleast in terms of the defense trying it. I still think they stick with his original one, but yours is in play.

 

[Jennifer17]

I am afraid he is going to get some advice from jail house lawyers and say something like this:

I lied when I said my wife killed the girls. I was out of my mind with shock and grief. I was desperate.

The truth is, I was taking a supplement that had very bad side effects. I couldn't sleep or eat. I was going off the deep end, hallucinating and I didn't realize what was happening to me. I was erratic and irrational.

I ask for mercy because I have no idea how I could have done that to my family, that I loved so much.

That will not do him any good though.

 

[ZsaZsa]

New to WS! Trying to make sense of this tragedy. I have lots of thoughts, but wanted to touch on some things I haven't seen running through the thread merely for speculation purposes.

IMO, this was not planned. There were too many loose ends. The burial site seemed to be a hastily, poorly chosen site if one did not want to get caught.

Both SW and CW seemed to be loving parents. Something went terribly wrong.

I am speculating on CW's claims that SW strangled the children. SW had lupus. Pregnancy can exacerbate lupus symptoms. Lupus flare ups can cause psychosis in some people. Caffeine overdose can cause psychosis. The patches worn by SW and CW contain an undisclosed amount of caffeine. One could overdose if ingesting caffeine in pills or drinks, especially while wearing a transdermal patch delivering the substance. The patches contain Garcinia cambogia: there have been case reports of psychotic symptoms with its use. IF SW was taking any medications, they could interact with many substances. Each body responds differently to different substances.
Sleep deprivation and/or stress can also cause psychosis.

(Links for the above information).
Caffeine Toxicity: Practice Essentials, Background, Pathophysiology

High caffeine use linked to psychotic symptoms - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

Severe Sleep Deprivation Causes Hallucinations and a Gradual Progression Toward Psychosis With Increasing Time Awake


Mania Induced by Garcinia cambogia: A Case Series


SW was pregnant, had Lupus and was traveling a lot recently. We know of relationship and financial problems that may have caused her much stress. There is likely much more we do not know about her stress levels. We know she claimed to be able to run on small amounts of sleep and that she was awake into wee hours of the morning when she returned from her latest trip- a trip which was likely packed full of all kinds of activities. Her friend reported SW wasn't feeling well on the trip. A tired, stressed out, sleep deprived pregnant mom who is dealing with Lupus and is expected to appear "energized" all the time ultizes substances to help achieve and maintain this energy. Could she have "snapped" with all of these factors coming into play?

I knew a woman who drowned her 3 kids during a psychotic break. You would have never known she was capable of this. She was not herself and suddenly lost touch with all reality, committing this heinous act.

Again, I am purely speculating to see if CW's claims to would be in the realm of possibility.

CW's behavior was certainly disturbing. Buried the bodies in a familiar, close place directly linked to him. He left evidence all over. Went to work like normal. Flat affect during interviews ... he seemed so far removed from reality. Could he have dissociated from these events du to trauma? This could be true whether he killed his entire family or whether his claim was true. It would help explain his disturbing behavior.

"Derealization comprises a state in which the world and the environment “feel” unreal to the individual residing in this state. Both depersonalization and derealization are aspects of dissociation represented by subjective states that usually result from trauma. "

Dissociative Rage
"Moscowitz describes “dissociative rage” in which an individual usually characterized as mild, quiet and overcontrolled, and acts impulsively with high levels of violence."
https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/73c8/faf5e2f050ed9ffd9e620dca762174c60698.pdf

Dissociation and Psychosis
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.ps...opathology/201511/dissociation-and-psychosis%

How about he just hated her guts, he was sick of the kids, and he wanted the girlfriend more. It happens.

 

[NanZDrew]

The oil tank cameras are probably for the company tanks. But a rancher wouldn't need a camera on his tanks unless he suspects theft or something.

But usually those ranchers know how many gallons were delivered and how many gallons used and when to make their next scheduled purchase.

Its usually clockwork with them ranchers and cameras aren't needed unless they know someone is out there stealing oil out of their tanks. And Cw knew this as well.

The oil companies like Anadarko actually lease your land. You don't own the gas or oil but you get paid a royalty on the oil, gas, crude. You lease it and take your check. The oil company owns the equipment, does the maintenance, schedules the pick-ups.

 

[NanZDrew]

You'd think they would have some heavy duty filters.

The hoses that they use are less than 6 inches in diameter, so the girls' bodies would just get left behind in the tanks. At least until the bones had totally fallen apart, but these a very young children, so their bones would not be totally hardened. They would be unlikely to cause a blockage even if a fragment was sucked up.

 

[Jennifer17]

How about he just hated her guts, he was sick of the kids, and he wanted the girlfriend more. It happens.

Yes and he did not want to be bothered with sharing the assets or child support. That may have cramped his style with his new life that he was already moving on to within a day of him burying her and throwing his children away.

 

[Jennifer17]

The hoses that they use are less than 6 inches in diameter, so the girls' bodies would just get left behind in the tanks. At least until the bones had totally fallen apart, but these a very young children, so their bones would not be totally hardened. They would be unlikely to cause a blockage even if a fragment was sucked up.

Oh, mercy.