CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #18

[PommyMommy]

Someone posted the floor plan for the house previously. Anyone know where that was?

I think everything was locked. Windows. Doors with chains. All except the garage.

My garage has a side door to the side yard which leads to the backyard though. Not sure about their home.

The plans may not be exact, as stated on the website, but the model name "Lenox" matches the sketch on the Weld County Property Assessor's site. I've also flipped the images since the Watts' garage was on the left side of the home.

 

[Inthedetails]

It's really about social norms and norms of human behavior. Does his disposal of their bodies mesh with innocence? Or love? Or does it show a defect in human character? And a lack of feelings for them?

Of course we can always find rare exceptions to the "rules" of human behavior but the exceptions prove the rule.

People act on deep instinct when it comes to death, the death of their loved ones andthe deaths of their children.

People are given to strong sentiment and irrational desires to protect or keep safe or warm or comfortable, their dead children.

Even murderous parents often dispose of their bodies in "womb-like" watery graves, typically within a mile or so of home.

So I don't think the color of the oil or his familiarity with it temper the offensiveness of the disposal location. Floating separately. Alone. Decomposing in oil vats that are filled with oil that is actually drained and used.

He actually showed more care with his wife's burial (and I'm sure that had to do with expediency) than he did with his daughters' disposal, IMO.

For me, though, Abby Blagg and Zahra Baker's disposals were more shocking. Garbage dump for the first and dismemberment for the second.

But it seems clear he had no sentiment left for his daughters that was more important than saving his own skin.

I also think the disposal undermines his story that he killed SW because she killed the children. That would be a much stronger case if he then lovingly and remorsefully buried the children - perhaps even with a blanket or toy - and in a setting that was at least a little bit pleasant. A jury might buy his story that he was panicked, distraught, overwhelmed, protective.

But to say I killed my wife after she killed the kids and then I dumped the kids in an ugly, towering, huge, scary container of oil, well, that's hard to understand.

I think the type of burial does matter, does point to his ultimate goal, does indicate the real story of the murders.

jmo

 

[Coolmomof4]

Colorado doesn’t require an egress door in family room or kitchen- somewhere on the back of the house for fire escape purposes???

No that's not accurate. There is a deck on the back of the house that you can see in the pics of him mowing the yard. There are steps from the deck to the ground that are visible. So there must be a door from the interior of the house to that deck.

Edited to add: Oops. I didn't mean your post was inaccurate, @OTPTarheel2018
I was referring to the post you were responding to about the doors. I'm sorry!

 

[Mo Thuairim]

The plans may not be exact, as stated on the website, but the model name "Lenox" matches the sketch on the Weld County Property Assessor's site. I've also flipped the images since the Watts' garage was on the left side of the home.

So if this floor plan is accurate for their home, there's a door to the side out of the garage (trying to read backwards on the flipped image!) that she could have theoretically left through to go to the rear of the house? I think that was what CW was implying could have happened in his fantasy version of events he gave the cameras.

ETA: I think he was really going to try to push the kidnapping angle, having found himself with less time to stage her and the kids' 'voluntary departure', get rid of her car, etc.
When asked in his porch interview: "How would she have left the house if she did leave the house?"
CW goes straight to: "I don't want to put anything out there like... suspecting, like if somebody pulled in there in the back and because we have driveway back there from the new town homes but... It's so hard to tell, like. There's no cameras in the back yard or anything like that, so... It's really hard to even suspect anything right now as far as how she could have left. Or if somebody came and picked her up... or somebody took her."

 

[OTPTarheel2018]

She just walked away? What was he going to be able to do with her keys/shoes/purse/car/etc? LE was going to be watching his every move unless he actually thinks NOBODY is going to be concerned not hearing from SW all day when she has a doctor's appointment/etc that she already had plans to attend. Even a dummy would not believe that. She had people already concerned about her and her well being.
Is/was he planning to just work all day and come home and 'fix' things? Like how?

His “plan” didn’t involve having to deal with LE.
NUA messed up his plan. Best friend.
CW obviously did not know how close NUA and SW were. He wasn’t paying attention to her friends because he wS paying attention to the AP.

CW did not count on how quickly LE would be involved. He was counting on that 48 hours.

Turn off her phone, throw her stuff in a dumpster somewhere.

Maybe he thought he’d say he started work early, went to Cervi to check things out...
I think he watched the wrong cases on the ID Channel... he had a half- baked plan. I think it was premeditated.

- Off topic- I was selected for a murder trial jury many years ago. I did not believe I would make it through voir dire. I told them I watched the news, read newspapers, knew about the case...the defense attorney believed he was so good he could convince me that it was not murder. Oops.

JMO and one life experience

 

[PommyMommy]

Hey Pommy.
It was all that... but any disposal method is going to be too. I think that is the general point.

I may need to go back and read the post again, but for now, it was as akin to me as suggesting that bodies of murder victims fed to pigs isn't as horrific if they are fed to Berkshire pigs vs. Boar Hogs. I'm sorry, but that is just how it came across to me.

 

[dgfred]

Haha... watched wrong cases. That is a good one.

 

[Seattle1]

I also think the disposal undermines his story that he killed SW because she killed the children. That would be a much stronger case if he then lovingly and remorsefully buried the children - perhaps even with a blanket or toy - and in a setting that was at least a little bit pleasant. A jury might buy his story that he was panicked, distraught, overwhelmed, protective.

But to say I killed my wife after she killed the kids and then I dumped the kids in an ugly, towering, huge, scary container of oil, well, that's hard to understand.

I think the type of burial does matter, does point to his ultimate goal, does indicate the real story of the murders.

jmo

It absolutely matters and there's a word for it: desecration of your own children! Pure evil from start to finish..

 

[PommyMommy]

So if this floor plan is accurate for their home, there's a door to the side out of the garage (trying to read backwards on the flipped image!) that she could have theoretically left through to go to the rear of the house? I think that was what CW was implying could have happened in his fantasy version of events he gave the cameras.

Correct. And I asked this question in one of the very early threads. I don't think it was ever answered.

 

[DexterMorgan]

I don't know Nicole and dont want to seem obsess with her well intentions to help a friend and immediately get detectives trapping the real killer on day 1.

But my question is. Do y'all know of any cases where a friend like Nicole immediately took action on a day 1 welfare check case and immediately helped LE realize that the family has only been missing for 10 hours. But the husband definitely disappeared them for sure. And also had LE start to crash his world and other secrets that very same day?

Some people wonder if the walls could talk. And I'm truly glad that Nicole was that wall via Sw previous discussions she had with Nicole.

So both SW and Nicole are considered spiritual sisters in my book.

And CW was no match at all for the 2 of them. Jmo

 

[dgfred]

I believe she was told a lot of information on the trip that we don't know about. SW may have found out some stuff she wasn't sure about before.

 

[Seattle1]

yes, it does, because not all crude oil is 'dirty; and 'black'.

This was no "liquid gold" refined oil! It's brown to black, flammable compound. And grade or color does not stop operators from wearing flame resistant gear and face masks. CW protected his person to work near it, and still submerged his babies. I don't understand your fascination here.

 

[DexterMorgan]

I believe she was told a lot of information on the trip that we don't know about. SW may have found out some stuff she wasn't sure about before.

Exactly. And Nicole's immediate action shows premeditated murder on CW part.

Because if Nicole knew to be worried that soon due to conversations with SW.

Then it's obvious that SW knew that CW was headed in this direction. Jmo

 

[dgfred]

Maybe was just planning on discussing 'things' with CW tho... and warned her friend.

 

[dgfred]

BTW- off topic

The Dexter show was the reason my daughter switched her major to Criminal Justice... after 4 YEARS of business and sports management.

Thanks for reminding me of all that money gone. Dang it. She works in Juvenile Probation... mainly because she hates guns and didn't want to carry one.

 

[Layla123]

I woke up this morning with a new theory. First thing I thought was why should I believe they had an emotional argument? Or any confrontation, whatsoever? CW is a liar. How come SW didn’t kick, scratch, fight, and scream bloody murder when SW killed her? How come Dieter wasn’t howling during the process of strangulation? Why didn’t the neighbors hear anything? I think he ambushed, restrained, and silenced her before she knew what hit her. I think he premeditated this whole thing, and came up with the “She strangled the children, I was so enraged I strangled her,” story long in advance of the murders, and only planned to use it if he got caught. His plans were derailed by NU, and the discovery that SW‘s body wouldn’t fit into the oil tank.

 

[DexterMorgan]

Maybe was just planning on discussing 'things' with CW tho... and warned her friend.

Exactly. If SW wasn't worried than Nicole wouldn't be that worried.

So obviously SW was that worried and confided that worry in a friend to take action just in case. Jmo

So SW was obviously worried. Jmo

And this shows premeditation on CW part since her friend immediately discussed that worry with LE on day 1.

 

[Thepoet]

Everybody keeps going on about the tanks. Everything he did was horrible.
He couldn't take then anywhere else IMO. Everywhere he went was going to be known that day.

Putting the bodies in bags and disposing of them was going to be horrible any way you/I look at it.
Would putting them in a shallow grave too be (I don't know what word to use)... better?
Burning? Every way is absolutely evil considering they were his children/wife.
I don't really get the significance of the tanks but I understand the anger.
Panicked, nowhere to turn, nowhere to go, no believable story, NO right to do what he did.

It's a combination of the dark, dirty, lonely place and his happy, pleased demeanor the next day! The place he picked and the distance he drove decreases the idea of panic and increases the idea of premeditation and increases the horror!

 

[Seattle1]

I don't know Nicole and dont want to seem obsess with her well intentions to help a friend and immediately get detectives trapping the real killer on day 1.

But my question is. Do y'all know of any cases where a friend like Nicole immediately took action on a day 1 welfare check case and immediately helped LE realize that the family has only been missing for 10 hours. But the husband definitely disappeared them for sure. And also had LE start to crash his world and other secrets that very same day?

Some people wonder if the walls could talk. And I'm truly glad that Nicole was that wall via Sw previous discussions she had with Nicole.

So both SW and Nicole are considered spiritual sisters in my book.

And CW was no match at all for the 2 of them. Jmo

Seems to me people are failing to realize the role SW's Mum played in prompting NAU's quick action. At last contact, SW was at airport waiting on her delayed flight, and Mum set off the alarm when she could not reach her pregnant daughter Monday morning, or granddaughters with life threatening allergies. SW wasn't answering or responding to texts from anybody, something was definitely wrong! NAU was local, and went to house after Mum called her. It was also Mum and NAU that contacted police to report SW missing.

 

[Layla123]

It's a combination of the dark, dirty, lonely place and his happy, pleased demeanor the next day! The place he picked and the distance he drove decreases the idea of panic and increases the idea of premeditation and increases the horror!

If C.W. could strangle his children, he would have no problem dumping them in oil. What’s the difference?