GUILTY CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #18

[Deleted member 117884]

But wasn’t NUA supposed to meet her at Dr. appointment?
And did SW mother really call or text NUA as @Seattle1 posted? I had not heard/ read that.

I didn't know that! Please clue me in. Thanks.

 

[NuttMegg]

I didn't know that! Please clue me in. Thanks.

So far I haven't seen that Nickole was supposed to meet Shan'nan at the Dr. office. Although here it was speculated early on. IE how did she know that Shan'nan didn't show up unless she was supposed to meet her there, given privacy laws.

 

[Amandaaa]

Warning, this is long...Based on what I’ve seen so far - my 2 cents on what I think could have happened - JMO

(disclaimer: I am not in ANY way trying to justify or excuse anything that was done, or place any blame on anyone other than C.W.)

When they first met... C.W. is a bit of an introvert, but overall a good guy. Not a lot of self confidence, usually in the background. SW is a “go-getter” - independent, vivacious, attractive, determined. Naturally, he is drawn to her. They meet up - she then has health issues and he stays by her side. She’s thankful to have him. She’s recently divorced, and he’s sweet and attentive and appears to have the stability she needs in a partner. She’s likely a dreamer, maybe he’s a bit more grounded. Initially, the relationship dynamic works and they are both content.

They have the girls - and I honestly think they both loved being parents. But things change when you have kids. They start to pour so much into their parenting - schedules and naps and appointmenst and life is just *different*. They no longer go on dates with each other, and the relationship starts to deteriorate. It’s all business. Financial issues cause additional stress. They grow apart. They start to become annoyed at the little things, and lose sight of the reason they married each other.

SW pours herself into her work, focused on building her thrive empire. She’s going to be successful and dig them out of their precarious financial situation. By all accounts, she’s a great salesperson - very determined and quite capable... she’s doing this for her family (and herself, of course) but it takes up so much of her time and energy. They both enjoy the trips, but the photos are for show - the relationship still isn’t what it used to be. The more successful she becomes, the more resentful C.W. gets. Maybe he feels stagnant in his career - or maybe he’s jealous that she has this natural ability and is seemingly so at ease with other people. He knows they could use the income, so he smiles and plays along for the camera... but inside, he’s not happy at all.

C.W. starts losing weight and getting in shape. His appearance changes dramatically, and he starts getting attention. It’s invigorating and exhilarating and makes him feel good. He feels *alive* again and it’s addictive, almost like a drug. At first, he was passive about it - but then he starts to seek it out. He joins dating apps and websites and meets up with others. He gets bolder and bolder about it. SW is so busy with work that it’s easy for him to get away... he just says he’s going to work early, or heading to the gym, or going out for a run.

She plans the trip to NC. While she’s away, his behavior escalates. He’s involved with someone at work - maybe this relationship is more personal to him, more emotionally fulfilling than his prior ones - who knows. But for half the summer, he lives like a bachelor. No commitments other than work, no parenting duties. He’s having such a great time and thinks that he’s been missing out. His resentment grows even more.

SW and the girls return from NC - she’s home for a hot second before she’s off again to Arizona. While he’s initially happy to have his girls back, his bachelor lifestyle has to end, and his parenting duties begin. Resentment grows even more. It’s unfair. She’s so successful and lives an exciting life - does she even need him? He’s along for the ride, but realizes he doesn’t want to be in the background. He likes his newfound confidence and the attention and the taste of freedom he’s had over the summer.

He goes through the motions that weekend - dutifully attending the neighborhood parties and parenting the girls, but growing more frustrated than ever. He expects SW back at a certain time, and can’t wait to hand the reins back over to her. Except her plane is late - so he can’t. That’s the last straw.

She finally walks in the door, 3 hours late. He’s beyond irritated. Clearly, something major happens - a disagreement, a fight, a confrontation - but IMO at this point, the girls are still in bed, asleep. I think SW knows about his dalliances - she’s been told, or found something suspicious. Online, she posts that she’s excited to get home - but she tells her friend she’s not feeling well, that she will need a friend more than ever, and in the photo of her at dinner with the group - she looks like she’s not her enthusiastic self. IMO, Something is clearly weighing on her mind.

During the argument, he kills her. I don’t think it was planned in advance - I think he totally lost control and took out all his frustrations, and all his resentment, on her. I think he even surprises himself. She was on, or next to, the bed. IMO, I think he killed the girls either because they witnessed something, or he didn’t want them to grow up knowing that he had killed their mother. He’s not thinking rationally at this point.

He panicks. He’s killed his family. Self-preservation kicks in. What can he do? He has to hide the bodies. But where? He throws the remaining covers off the bed and gathers up the top sheet, carrying SW down to the truck. He goes back for the girls, puts them in the truck and starts driving. His mind is racing and he’s still not sure what he’s going to do. SW is so well connected - her absence will be noted quickly, and he’s sure to be contacted soon. He needs to put the bodies somewhere where they won’t be found right away. He thinks of the tanks and drives to the site. He’s still not thinking clearly - no emotion, just adrenaline. The girls fit, but SW is too big. He buries her - hastily- and goes to work so he’s not late.

He has to answer questions and do interviews about his missing family. He’s still in self-preservation mode and not thinking rationally. Maybe it doesn’t even seem real to him. He hasn’t rehearsed this and doesn’t know how he’s supposed to act as a worried and grieving husband/father. He goes through the motions - trying to convey his concern but just comes across as nervous and “off”.

He knows it’s only a matter of time before the police are back at the house. When he returns home, he goes up to the bedroom and sees the bedding still on the floor. He realizes that SW will be found much faster than he’d initially thought, since she wasn’t in the tank - and that the sheet will be there with her. He has to get rid of the rest of the matching set. He throws them away in the kitchen garbage, hoping they won’t be found. There really isn’t much else to clean up, so now he just waits to see what happens next.

IMO - I do think he loved his daughters, and I don’t think he planned to kill them. I also do think he’s probably grieving - as difficult as that might be to believe. Maybe I just *need* to believe it. I also tend to believe the various APs that have surfaced - anyone could say they met him at a bar or at the gym... but to specifically say that they met up through a dating app - something that can be confirmed, on his phone or the AP’s...?

 

[Seattle1]

Quoting myself to add, when I was an undergrad I came home from classes and took a nap. I kept hearing a puppy crying though. After about an hour of that I got up and tried to look over the fence to see what was up. I just thought someone got a new puppy who was upset to be alone.

But the barking sounded super distressed once I got closer and not knowing the neighbors, or who was home or whatever, I still jumped the damn fence.

Puppy was in the pool, paws bloody from holding onto the side for dear life. Couldn't get out.

I don't think Nichole needed anything more that we don't know about than just what she was presented with, to cause her alarm.

Also, NAU was in contact with SW's Mum - a very close family. Mum knew they were together in AZ and last person (besides CW) to see SW alive. NAU was local, doing what Mum could not do from NC. LE said SW reported missing by her Mum and NAU. I'm sure LE used each to collaborate each others story how out of order the scene was for SW not to answer or reply, and didn't take long for report to change to "endangered missing." We know CW made no effort in this regard.

 

[Thepoet]

If C.W. could strangle his children, he would have no problem dumping them in oil. What’s the difference?

If you don't know, I'm not sure I could explain it. It's all about degrees, coldness, disrespect, and dignity. Think about it.

 

[Colorado303]

Oh I think he's going to stick. But he may add that his reaction was murder and then odd because he was on stuff. But I predict he won't back down from his SW did it defense at this point. And this is a 180 for me. At first I thought he'd plead guilty after negotiation.

And you know, reading here the last few weeks and looking at some of the Facebooks groups devoted to the case- it might be a winning theory for him.

Despite the absolutely illogical, nonsensical story with no evidence to support it, and extremely powerful circumstantial evidence to support his complete guilt, people are willing to contort in various was and come up with all sorts of utterly baseless scenarios, that blame SW for her own death and/or that of her children.

It's odd. Some of those same people will deny the existence of the huge amount of actual evidence we know exists in this case, saying it's not evidence at all or it's circumstantial so it's irrelevant, and then they flail away with theories that have zero basis in anything at all.

What concerns me is I see a strong desire to excuse or protect CW among many. Some have clearly stated it's because they're dads too and can't see a dad doing that. Others have stated they've seen videos of him being a dad and there's no way. Some have said simply they can't imagine any father doing such a thing.

I think many see him as an attractive, middle class man and attractive, less poor defendants always fare much better in the criminal justice system. Juries tend to give them the benefit of the doubt.

And then there's SW. The resentment I've seen from people about this attractive, mother of two who seemed to have it all, is pretty incredible. And this is despite the fact that she was murdered.

People seem to resent her for being attractive and having a nice house, two beautiful kids and a life filled with trips. I've seen many scolding posts about how they had no business having a house that nice, for example and how she lived beyond her means.

But much of the antipathy comes from the way she portrayed herself on social media.

We all have seen studies about how social media causes depression because people feel they don't measure up. Of course most people don't post the bad stuff, simply because they don't want to be seen as downers. But regardless, people see others' happy posts and feel bad.

That creates anger toward those who display such happy social media lives. We've seen that in SW's own circle. A male friend of hers said he felt so bad about his own life due to SW's constantly happy posts that he "had to block her". What? Just get off social media! Or unfollow! You block people who do something wrong. Not because you're envious of their lives.

But it seems people really connect their own unhappiness with the "perfect" lives displayed by some on social media. And that builds anger.

I've seen so much of that against SW. She looks insane. (She has crazy eyes). She's forced her husband to display his private life against his will, on social media (even though people say his was exactly like hers). She's a phony, fake perfectionist. She must have been a controlling shrew. Her perfect closets clearly show she's has borderline personality disorder. Etc.

And I think his defense team is well aware of the attitudes out there and they're going to exploit that for all it's worth.

I say he sticks with his monstrous and ridiculous theory and I fear there are enough people who like him and hate her, that will believe it.

Exactly what I’ve been thinking but expressed much better than I ever could. It’s almost more disturbing than the actual crime. A crime like this is blessedly rare, but the feeding frenzy, eagerness to judge and criticize total strangers and adrenalin rush of righteous indignation and belonging (albeit w/a bunch of strangers) fostered by social media is increasingly common and IMO alarming. For society as a whole and this case in particular.

I didn’t know Shanann well or for long, but I knew her. And she was one of those rare people who was beautiful inside and out. She could have felt superior but liked everyone and got true joy from encouraging others and seeing them succeed. She loved her girls. My last conversation with her is seared in my brain as she brimmed with peaceful joy about her pregnancy. Had this horrific crime never happened she had already made an impression on me as a remarkable woman—knowing her made people want to just be a better person. If I’d never met her I’d be bothered by the baseless judging that’s happening in social media. But having known her personally it’s absolutely dismaying.

 

[Coolmomof4]

Yes. And the slider was locked with a stick in it from the inside.



Thank you so much for that!!



Thanks! So there WAS a side door from the garage. I wonder if it was locked. Can't wait to find out.

RE: slider door: Yep. Just responding about presence of door... Not that it could've been used.

 

[OTPTarheel2018]

I didn't know that! Please clue me in. Thanks.

From KIRO
“Atkinson became concerned later that morning because Shanann Watts missed a 10 a.m. doctor’s appointment and was not answering phone calls or texts. She went to the couple’s home at 2825 Saratoga Trail to check on her.

https://www.google.com/amp/amp.kiro...-she-got-home-husbands-charges-show/817838105

She had to have gone to Dr.office...they couldn’t tell her on phone- most likely a HIPPA violation. How else would she know?

 

[OTPTarheel2018]

RE: slider door: Yep. Just responding about presence of door... Not that it could've been used.

NUA couldn’t have gotten in that way...

But if NUA hadn’t shown up, the “kidnapper” , while C.W. was at work, could have taken them out the back and into the area where homes were under construction. Probably a white (unsub) van was in the area- oh, yeah, lots of those with sub-contractors in an unfinished subdivision...

I swear this reminds me of a book or Lifetime movie...

 

[Seattle1]

Exactly what I’ve been thinking but expressed much better than I ever could. It’s almost more disturbing than the actual crime. A crime like this is blessedly rare, but the feeding frenzy, eagerness to judge and criticize total strangers and adrenalin rush of righteous indignation and belonging (albeit w/a bunch of strangers) fostered by social media is increasingly common and IMO alarming. For society as a whole and this case in particular.

I didn’t know Shanann well or for long, but I knew her. And she was one of those rare people who was beautiful inside and out. She could have felt superior but liked everyone and got true joy from encouraging others and seeing them succeed. She loved her girls. My last conversation with her is seared in my brain as she brimmed with peaceful joy about her pregnancy. Had this horrific crime never happened she had already made an impression on me as a remarkable woman—knowing her made people want to just be a better person. If I’d never met her I’d be bothered by the baseless judging that’s happening in social media. But having known her personally it’s absolutely dismaying.

Thanks for confirming what most have felt about SW. I'm truly sorry that you lost your friend, and good on you for supporting her here...

 

[pocketaccent]

I’m not a lawyer but I see three options here:
1. Stick with this ridiculous story.
2. Some sort of temporary insanity defense.
3. Plea

There simply aren’t any viable options that offer much hope for him. I’m more than ok with that!

I think the defense will stick to CW's interrogation lies. That's the only way to absolve him from killing the girls. And then they will insist none of the evidence points to premeditation.

I can already picture their opening statement -Yes, CW is a despicable and reprehensible man, you will hate him at the end of this trial. He cheated on his wife, he ended up killing her, he threw away his little girls in two separate oil tanks. blah blah.... however, there isn't one evidence that points to premeditation, blah blah...

 

[Layla123]

For those concerned about how NU knew SW missed her doctor’s appointment, maybe NU knew what time the appointment was supposed to be. Maybe the timing was such that when she arrived at SW’s house and discovered SW’s car sitting in the garage, she knew there was no way that car could be sitting in that garage if SW went to see the doctor when she was supposed to.

 

[Thepoet]

I've seen some posts here lately that bother me so I want to reiterate some thoughts;

Shanann, Bella CeCe, and Nico were victims because they were murdered and by the way their remains were treated. Shanann was an attractive, dynamic woman who had overcome many obstacles and was creating success in many ways. CeCe and Bella were beautiful, precious children full of life and potential and Nico was a new life, also full of potential. They didn't die from an illness or an accident, their lives were ripped from them deliberately and brutally. All but Nico probably experienced terror during whatever happened. The main thing, of course, is that four lives were deliberately ended and all lives are important!

That's horrible enough, but then their remains were treated, probably on purpose, with disrespect increasing the horror. There was no panic, because the location and its proximity/distance had to have been thought out and possibly (probably) planned.

Finally, the perpetrator, CW, puts on a show alternating between indifference, smirking glee, and confusion trying to set the stage for the final cover up! When all his plans and efforts crumble he retreats into the coward's ploy; blame the victims. We know CW for what he is, by his actions and his lies! We know the victims were victims, by their suffering, their deaths, and the ugliness of how their remains were handled.

The important things now are that the investigation is thorough, the truth comes out, and justice is done.

<modnote: corrected initials in Para. 4 to reflect CW>

 

[pocketaccent]

From AB 9/6/18
1. Disturbing pattern emerging on SW’s FB timeline. Why did her loving family videos slow to a trickle just before the unthinkable?
2. Feb 21 videos, Mar 6 videos, Apr 18 videos, May 18 videos, June 14 videos, July 5 videos, August 0 videos
3. Feb - Vegas w/ CW, all good, Mar, good, too, Apr big month, SW featured in company mag, went to New Orleans w/out C.W., May CW’s birthday, June - the pregnancy announcement, late June San Diego w/ CW. All is well. Last time C.W. appears in video. Couple photos, that’s it. July trip to NC, 4 days into NC trip SW posts, “Chris is living the Bachelor life. Ate t-bones for dinner the last 3 nights and bought shrimp and goodies. He’s sleeping and working out.” In July videos drop precipitously. CeCe Birthday was last video. No videos or pictures of Daddy in NC. Aug 4 - strange post. “The older I get the more scared I am to let her out into the world...”
4. SW’s moms friend said they were headed for separation.
5. Something happened in NC, she stopped posting about C.W.
6. Aug 6 SW posts about trip to AZ.
7. Aug 9 last photo published doll covered with sheet.
8. Pattern is significant, drop off significant. Didn’t include herself in Birthday wish to C.W., only mentioned girls. SW may have known about affair.

BBM

Could the slow down in family videos be from them physically being apart in July and August? SW in NC, CW in CO.

 

[Thepoet]

For those concerned about how NU knew SW missed her doctor’s appointment, maybe NU knew what time the appointment was supposed to be. Maybe the timing was such that when she arrived at SW’s house and discovered SW’s car sitting in the garage, she knew there was no way that car could be sitting in that garage if SW went to see the doctor when she was supposed to.

Good point.

 

[gitana1]

The fact that she went to SW's house that morning is what makes me think that the friend knew about something that worried SW. I would totally check on a sick PG friend by calling or texting, but not sure I would be so quick to physically go to the house - I would probably keep trying to reach her by phone/text until later in the day. My first assumption would be that the doctor's appointment was keeping her from answering my calls/texts.

However, if my friend confided in me something worrisome about the household or marriage situation, then I can see myself going to the house right away to check.

It all moved so quickly - that's why I think the friend knew "something."

Whatever the case, I do look forward to her testimony at trial.

jmo

She knew her friend was pregnant and had been feeling ill though. And not answering. And weren't they supposed to meet?

She gave an interview as to why she was concerned. She mentioned nothing about SW having told her anything about CW except that they had been having marital problems. I believe she would've said so if Shanann gave her reason for more alarm.

 

[MassGuy]

BBM

Could the slow down in family videos be from them physically being apart in July and August? SW in NC, CW in CO.

There are any number of potential reasons for this, your suggestion included. Marital problems, health issues, or something that we haven’t thought of, could have also played a role.

 

[Seattle1]

But wasn’t NUA supposed to meet her at Dr. appointment?
And did SW mother really call or text NUA as @Seattle1 posted? I had not heard/ read that.

Mum, NAU, and brother are 3 of many on the witness list. All will come out in trial. Everybody silenced early given speed of LE investigation. SW brother also reported BW was no show for Kdg orientation on Monday, and that went quiet too. MOO

 

[pocketaccent]

I've seen some posts here lately that bother me so I want to reiterate some thoughts;

Shanann, Bella CeCe, and Nico were victims because they were murdered and by the way their remains were treated. Shanann was an attractive, dynamic woman who had overcome many obstacles and was creating success in many ways. CeCe and Bella were beautiful, precious children full of life and potential and Nico was a new life, also full of potential. They didn't die from an illness or an accident, their lives were ripped from them deliberately and brutally. All but Nico probably experienced terror during whatever happened. The main thing, of course, is that four lives were deliberately ended and all lives are important!

That's horrible enough, but then their remains were treated, probably on purpose, with disrespect increasing the horror. There was no panic, because the location and its proximity/distance had to have been thought out and possibly (probably) planned.

Finally, the perpetrator, SW, puts on a show alternating between indifference, smirking glee, and confusion trying to set the stage for the final cover up! When all his plans and efforts crumble he retreats into the coward's ploy; blame the victims. We know CW for what he is, by his actions and his lies! We know the victims were victims, by their suffering, their deaths, and the ugliness of how their remains were handled.

The important things now are that the investigation is thorough, the truth comes out, and justice is done.

CW is a guy who has no conscience. He lost it somewhere along the way. That is what is wrong with him, simply put. IMO.

 

[Thepoet]

I think the defense will stick to CW's interrogation lies. That's the only way to absolve him from killing the girls. And then they will insist none of the evidence points to premeditation.

I can already picture their opening statement -Yes, CW is a despicable and reprehensible man, you will hate him at the end of this trial. He cheated on his wife, he ended up killing her, he threw away his little girls in two separate oil tanks. blah blah.... however, there isn't one evidence that points to premeditation, blah blah...

I believe there is evidence of premeditation and evidence that SW did murder the girls. The prosecution's opening statement; Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, you will be shown evidence that two little girls were brutally murdered by their father. We will present evidence that these girls died long before (or after) their Mother. We will present evidence of premeditation of both the crime and the attempted cover-up. We will also present evidence of extra-marital relationships by the murderer, that are part of the motive for the murders, and you will hear the murderer's own lies in his own voice!