CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #18

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  • #721
So far I haven't seen that Nickole was supposed to meet Shan'nan at the Dr. office. Although here it was speculated early on. IE how did she know that Shan'nan didn't show up unless she was supposed to meet her there, given privacy laws.

Here's all I could find:

“I knew she had a doctor’s appointment that morning because she’s pregnant. She didn’t show up for it … and I was even more concerned.” She said they also had plans to meet up later in the day, but Shanann never showed up to meet her either.

“I don’t know where she’s at. This is completely unlike her,” Utoft told the news station.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/heavy....nn-watts-missing-daughters-celeste-bella/amp/
 
  • #722
If C.W. could strangle his children, he would have no problem dumping them in oil. What’s the difference?

The difference for me is that whatever state, rage or mental break he must have entered at the moment he killed the girls would have had to of passed to enable him to rationally back up the van to the back door and load his families bodies in. In that rational, albeit self preservation mindset he SHOULD of wanted more for his children's bodies than a dirty tank of oil. Surely he would have wanted them to be laid to rest somewhere peaceful with dignity, maybe somewhere together with their mother. This to me is the most horrifying thing he could of done.
 
  • #723
He claims he didn't kill them. It's unbelievable that a father would dump his children in a container of oil if he wasn't the one who killed them. I don't think a jury will buy his story and one big reason is where he chose to put them as their final resting place.

But I totally understand that some people don't care how the bodies of the two daughters were disposed of. Others of us do think it's significant.

jmo
It matters greatly to me the way disposed his daughters. It's like killing them twice. Dropping them in crude oil is more shocking than the murder itself. That's how I felt.
 
  • #724
The difference for me is that whatever state, rage or mental break he must have entered at the moment he killed the girls would have had to of passed to enable him to rationally back up the van to the back door and load his families bodies in. In that rational, albeit self preservation mindset he SHOULD of wanted more for his children's bodies than a dirty tank of oil. Surely he would have wanted them to be laid to rest somewhere peaceful with dignity, maybe somewhere together with their mother. This to me is the most horrifying thing he could of done.
I don’t believe C.W. was in a rage when he did this. I don’t believe a word he says. I think these murders were premeditated and executed according to his plan. He stopped caring about his daughters when he strangled them.
 
  • #725
I don’t believe C.W. was in a rage when he did this. I don’t believe a word he says. I think these murders were premeditated and executed according to his plan. He stopped caring about his daughters when he strangled them.
His reckless commission of this crime, leads me to have the opposite conclusion. Dumping the bodies at work, makes me think that this crime was more spur of the moment, and his coverup, reactionary. I think he may have thought about this in the past, but the murder of Shanann was due to an explosive argument.

If this is true, it absolves him of nothing. The way he treated their bodies, tells us all we need to know about him.
 
  • #726
Here's all I could find:

“I knew she had a doctor’s appointment that morning because she’s pregnant. She didn’t show up for it … and I was even more concerned.” She said they also had plans to meet up later in the day, but Shanann never showed up to meet her either.

“I don’t know where she’s at. This is completely unlike her,” Utoft told the news station.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/heavy....nn-watts-missing-daughters-celeste-bella/amp/
Thank you, that's the way I remember it too, ambiguous. I wouldn't rule out that the Dr's office said she didn't show up, disclosure laws or no. If I called to see if my relative/friend had shown up for a doc appt for example, they would tell me yes or no, or if she was ready to be picked up. Giving out diagnoses is a lot different, but just saying she didn't show up, I say no big deal that they (may have) told her. Also we don't know if Shan'nan had left Nickole's name as a contact name.
 
  • #727
CW is a guy who has no conscience. He lost it somewhere along the way. That is what is wrong with him, simply put. IMO.
This - 5 stars!
No conscience = no emotion. MOO
 
  • #728
His reckless commission of this crime, leads me to have the opposite conclusion. Dumping the bodies at work, makes me think that this crime was more spur of the moment, and his coverup, reactionary. I think he may have thought about this in the past, but the murder of Shanann was due to an explosive argument.

If this is true, it absolves him of nothing. The way he treated their bodies, tells us all we need to know about him.
I mentioned it last week as a possibility....that the guys, the mechanics had a joke...great place to dump a body! Black humor, we all do it. Maybe something like "S hit this place stinks so bad even a dead body wouldn't smell worse" ha ha ha. Didn't he say something about covering the smell? (IIRC). Re that adage about a little bit of truth in each of his statements.
 
  • #729
Warning, this is long...Based on what I’ve seen so far - my 2 cents on what I think could have happened - JMO

(disclaimer: I am not in ANY way trying to justify or excuse anything that was done, or place any blame on anyone other than C.W.)

When they first met... C.W. is a bit of an introvert, but overall a good guy. Not a lot of self confidence, usually in the background. SW is a “go-getter” - independent, vivacious, attractive, determined. Naturally, he is drawn to her. They meet up - she then has health issues and he stays by her side. She’s thankful to have him. She’s recently divorced, and he’s sweet and attentive and appears to have the stability she needs in a partner. She’s likely a dreamer, maybe he’s a bit more grounded. Initially, the relationship dynamic works and they are both content.

They have the girls - and I honestly think they both loved being parents. But things change when you have kids. They start to pour so much into their parenting - schedules and naps and appointmenst and life is just *different*. They no longer go on dates with each other, and the relationship starts to deteriorate. It’s all business. Financial issues cause additional stress. They grow apart. They start to become annoyed at the little things, and lose sight of the reason they married each other.

SW pours herself into her work, focused on building her thrive empire. She’s going to be successful and dig them out of their precarious financial situation. By all accounts, she’s a great salesperson - very determined and quite capable... she’s doing this for her family (and herself, of course) but it takes up so much of her time and energy. They both enjoy the trips, but the photos are for show - the relationship still isn’t what it used to be. The more successful she becomes, the more resentful C.W. gets. Maybe he feels stagnant in his career - or maybe he’s jealous that she has this natural ability and is seemingly so at ease with other people. He knows they could use the income, so he smiles and plays along for the camera... but inside, he’s not happy at all.

C.W. starts losing weight and getting in shape. His appearance changes dramatically, and he starts getting attention. It’s invigorating and exhilarating and makes him feel good. He feels *alive* again and it’s addictive, almost like a drug. At first, he was passive about it - but then he starts to seek it out. He joins dating apps and websites and meets up with others. He gets bolder and bolder about it. SW is so busy with work that it’s easy for him to get away... he just says he’s going to work early, or heading to the gym, or going out for a run.

She plans the trip to NC. While she’s away, his behavior escalates. He’s involved with someone at work - maybe this relationship is more personal to him, more emotionally fulfilling than his prior ones - who knows. But for half the summer, he lives like a bachelor. No commitments other than work, no parenting duties. He’s having such a great time and thinks that he’s been missing out. His resentment grows even more.

SW and the girls return from NC - she’s home for a hot second before she’s off again to Arizona. While he’s initially happy to have his girls back, his bachelor lifestyle has to end, and his parenting duties begin. Resentment grows even more. It’s unfair. She’s so successful and lives an exciting life - does she even need him? He’s along for the ride, but realizes he doesn’t want to be in the background. He likes his newfound confidence and the attention and the taste of freedom he’s had over the summer.

He goes through the motions that weekend - dutifully attending the neighborhood parties and parenting the girls, but growing more frustrated than ever. He expects SW back at a certain time, and can’t wait to hand the reins back over to her. Except her plane is late - so he can’t. That’s the last straw.

She finally walks in the door, 3 hours late. He’s beyond irritated. Clearly, something major happens - a disagreement, a fight, a confrontation - but IMO at this point, the girls are still in bed, asleep. I think SW knows about his dalliances - she’s been told, or found something suspicious. Online, she posts that she’s excited to get home - but she tells her friend she’s not feeling well, that she will need a friend more than ever, and in the photo of her at dinner with the group - she looks like she’s not her enthusiastic self. IMO, Something is clearly weighing on her mind.

During the argument, he kills her. I don’t think it was planned in advance - I think he totally lost control and took out all his frustrations, and all his resentment, on her. I think he even surprises himself. She was on, or next to, the bed. IMO, I think he killed the girls either because they witnessed something, or he didn’t want them to grow up knowing that he had killed their mother. He’s not thinking rationally at this point.

He panicks. He’s killed his family. Self-preservation kicks in. What can he do? He has to hide the bodies. But where? He throws the remaining covers off the bed and gathers up the top sheet, carrying SW down to the truck. He goes back for the girls, puts them in the truck and starts driving. His mind is racing and he’s still not sure what he’s going to do. SW is so well connected - her absence will be noted quickly, and he’s sure to be contacted soon. He needs to put the bodies somewhere where they won’t be found right away. He thinks of the tanks and drives to the site. He’s still not thinking clearly - no emotion, just adrenaline. The girls fit, but SW is too big. He buries her - hastily- and goes to work so he’s not late.

He has to answer questions and do interviews about his missing family. He’s still in self-preservation mode and not thinking rationally. Maybe it doesn’t even seem real to him. He hasn’t rehearsed this and doesn’t know how he’s supposed to act as a worried and grieving husband/father. He goes through the motions - trying to convey his concern but just comes across as nervous and “off”.

He knows it’s only a matter of time before the police are back at the house. When he returns home, he goes up to the bedroom and sees the bedding still on the floor. He realizes that SW will be found much faster than he’d initially thought, since she wasn’t in the tank - and that the sheet will be there with her. He has to get rid of the rest of the matching set. He throws them away in the kitchen garbage, hoping they won’t be found. There really isn’t much else to clean up, so now he just waits to see what happens next.

IMO - I do think he loved his daughters, and I don’t think he planned to kill them. I also do think he’s probably grieving - as difficult as that might be to believe. Maybe I just *need* to believe it. I also tend to believe the various APs that have surfaced - anyone could say they met him at a bar or at the gym... but to specifically say that they met up through a dating app - something that can be confirmed, on his phone or the AP’s...?

I think this is a good, well thought out post. Some excellent observations and points here.

There are a couple of things that don't make sense to me though. One you kind of glossed over, is the effort and time and horror involved in strangling not one but two, innocent babies to death.

He witnessed their fear and panic. He witnessed them writhing and clawing at his hands to breathe. Whether two minutes to unconsciousness or one. That's an eternity at a moment like that. And then he had to keep strangling and strangling while their faces turned different colors, to make sure they were dead and not just unconscious.

And after he killed one, taking several minutes to do so, he went over to the next little bed and did it all over again. How could a loving father do something that gruesome, not once but twice?

So let's say he wasn't "rational". And lost it. That happens. We see case after case of unstable men and women who "lose it" and commit atrocities.

But those cases typically follow certain patterns. They usually include at least one and often more than one of the following:

1. Immediate calls to 911.
2. Immediate confessions.
3. Wailing screams and crying in the front yard or to the police operators.
4. Attempts at or actual suicides.
5. Clear mental illness such as stated delusions, catatonia, etc.
6. No calm and emotionless attempts to conceal the crime.

I never forget an episode of COPS I watched years ago - so disturbing- where a man "lost it" and kicked his wife in the chest. Emergency services came. They showed them cutting her shirt in half (but blurred her face and some of her body) and just pumping and pumping on her chest trying CPR. At the end of the program they reported she died.

The whole time he was screaming and wailing in the background. "I'm sorry! I didn't mean it!" That is a more typical reaction. They're not all like that but I've never seen one like this.

The other thing that doesn't make sense is how can a man who just "lost it" but actually loved his children and feel remorse look so dry-eyed, well rested and calm the next day as he coolly lies about their whereabouts? He was so composed and in control for a man who under your scenario didn't really mean to kill his kids and grieves for them. Didn't appear at all to have lost any sleep. No signs of crying. Or really of any emotion at all. That doesn't make a lick of sense to me.

Finally, he gave three, separate interviews. Two are almost identical. What he says is almost indistinguishable in the two interviews. IMO, clearly rehearsed.
 
  • #730
I think everyone has forgotten that Nickole rang CW and he said she had gone to a friends for a play date, at which point Nickole suspected something wasn't right as SW's car was still in the garage.
 
  • #731
Exactly what I’ve been thinking but expressed much better than I ever could. It’s almost more disturbing than the actual crime. A crime like this is blessedly rare, but the feeding frenzy, eagerness to judge and criticize total strangers and adrenalin rush of righteous indignation and belonging (albeit w/a bunch of strangers) fostered by social media is increasingly common and IMO alarming. For society as a whole and this case in particular.

I didn’t know Shanann well or for long, but I knew her. And she was one of those rare people who was beautiful inside and out. She could have felt superior but liked everyone and got true joy from encouraging others and seeing them succeed. She loved her girls. My last conversation with her is seared in my brain as she brimmed with peaceful joy about her pregnancy. Had this horrific crime never happened she had already made an impression on me as a remarkable woman—knowing her made people want to just be a better person. If I’d never met her I’d be bothered by the baseless judging that’s happening in social media. But having known her personally it’s absolutely dismaying.

Great Post.

I was watching Crime and Justice with Ashleigh Banfield just the other day and they featured this case.

I could not believe that even she was suggesting that her SM postings and lack of recent postings may have hinted to her possible depression over the relationship going downhill and left open the suggestion that maybe some of what CW has said could be true.

It was upsetting and I was getting upset with the show and finally turned it off.

IMO
The only thing that her SM showed to me was yeah maybe she was upset with him but in no way would she kill her children.

There is no doubt in my mind that he killed all 3 of them. The way he disposed of their bodies is proof enough to me that he and him alone killed all 3 of them.

The only question that remains to me is if he killed the kids before or after she got home. I tended to think he killed the kids after they may have witnessed him killing her when she got home. But either way it doesnt matter to me because I know in my heart of hearts he murdered all 3 of them.

He was carrying on affairs with multiple people of different sex. He admitted to depositing the bodies in a horrific way. He lied about everything when confronted for days.

Yeah he did it and he killed them all.
 
  • #732
His reckless commission of this crime, leads me to have the opposite conclusion. Dumping the bodies at work, makes me think that this crime was more spur of the moment, and his coverup, reactionary. I think he may have thought about this in the past, but the murder of Shanann was due to an explosive argument.

If this is true, it absolves him of nothing. The way he treated their bodies, tells us all we need to know about him.
My speculation is close to yours. I think, while SW was in NC, he fantasized about how great his life would be if SW and the girls didn't exist, but the murder wasn't in the picture yet.

When SW returned from NC and left for AZ leaving the girls with him, he began to hate the girls greatly.

Then when SW returned from AZ, he made the decision to get rid of them. He committed unprepared premeditated first degree murder, IMO.
 
  • #733
I think everyone has forgotten that Nickole rang CW and he said she had gone to a friends for a play date, at which point Nickole suspected something wasn't right as SW's car was still in the garage.
Not to mention that CW also didn't know the name of (playdate) friend!
 
  • #734
I mentioned it last week as a possibility....that the guys, the mechanics had a joke...great place to dump a body! Black humor, we all do it. Maybe something like "S hit this place stinks so bad even a dead body wouldn't smell worse" ha ha ha. Didn't he say something about covering the smell? (IIRC). That adage about a little bit of truth in each of his statements.

Same here with the dark humor. I’ve, on more than one occasion, been known to point to some of our very large research refrigerators and state “I could stash a body or three in here, but I would still need an air tight alibi.”

(And if anyone I personally know goes missing, g-d forbid!, my internet search history would make me look incredibly guilty.
 
  • #735
The other thing that doesn't make sense is how can a man who just "lost it" but actually loved his children and feel remorse look so dry-eyed, well rested and calm the next day as he coolly lies about their whereabouts? He was so composed and in control for a man who under your scenario didn't really mean to kill his kids and grieves for them. Didn't appear at all to have lost any sleep. No signs of crying. Or really of any emotion at all. That doesn't make a lick of sense to me.

Finally, he gave three, separate interviews. Two are almost identical. What he says is almost indistinguishable in the two interviews. IMO, clearly rehearsed.

Exactly what completely chills me about this crime and cover-up. Not to mention the fact he totally freaked out the Thayers next day by not showing any real concern for his 'missing' family and instead watching back his interviews repeatedly to try to assess how he came across to the public...
 
  • #736
My speculation is close to yours. I think, while SW was in NC, he fantasized about how great his life would be if SW and the girls didn't exist, but the murder wasn't in the picture yet.

When SW returned from NC and left for AZ leaving the girls with him, he began to hate the girls greatly.

Then when SW returned from AZ, he made the decision to get rid of them. He committed unprepared premeditated first degree murder, IMO.
Agreed. In a true crime of passion, he may have murdered his wife, but killing the kids afterwards, doesn’t jibe with this.

A fight likely precipitated this, but the rage doesn’t explain the rest of it (killing the kids, dumping their bodies in oil), which leads me to believe that this wasn’t simply a domestic situation that got out of hand.

There had to have been some planning here, something as simple as a thought, or desire that he had, at a prior time. He wanted his whole family gone, whether this was for one reason, or a multitude of them.
 
  • #737
Exactly what I’ve been thinking but expressed much better than I ever could. It’s almost more disturbing than the actual crime. A crime like this is blessedly rare, but the feeding frenzy, eagerness to judge and criticize total strangers and adrenalin rush of righteous indignation and belonging (albeit w/a bunch of strangers) fostered by social media is increasingly common and IMO alarming. For society as a whole and this case in particular.

I didn’t know Shanann well or for long, but I knew her. And she was one of those rare people who was beautiful inside and out. She could have felt superior but liked everyone and got true joy from encouraging others and seeing them succeed. She loved her girls. My last conversation with her is seared in my brain as she brimmed with peaceful joy about her pregnancy. Had this horrific crime never happened she had already made an impression on me as a remarkable woman—knowing her made people want to just be a better person. If I’d never met her I’d be bothered by the baseless judging that’s happening in social media. But having known her personally it’s absolutely dismaying.

Aww. Bless your soul. I'm so sorry you are exposed to that ugly noise. It's got to be painful.
 
  • #738
I don't believe it is truly a HIPPA violation, for the receptionist to speak to a truly concerned friend/family member, about a missing pregnant woman. If the receptionist was told that SW was not responding to calls/texts, her car was home but door locked from inside, but no response, and they were very concerned, ' WAS SHE PERHAPS STILL AT HER 10 AM APPOINTMENT? ' ----- I believe the receptionist could say NO, she never arrived that morning, without creating any HIPPA violations.
 
  • #739
I was more than a little surprised to read this.

Outwardly, it appeared the family was recently enjoying a prosperous period that included taking vacation trips around the world, often paid for by her employer.

"We have qualified for so many amazing trips in two years that we never otherwise would have been able to visit," Shanann wrote recently on social media. She mentioned trips to New Orleans, Toronto, Punta Cana in the Dominican Republic, Puerto Vallarta in Mexico, Las Vegas and San Diego. "All inclusive, no work, all fun vacations ..."

Frederick man had climbed from deep financial troubles to apparent prosperity
I had thought their financial problems might not be as tough now simply because in 2014, the price for crude was really low and dropped lower in 2015. After that it had started climbing upwards. He was just starting at Anadarko and may have been making more 4 years later after the oil/gas industry had improved.
 
  • #740
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