Found Deceased CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #19

[MerryB]

I really disagree. I think he had some tells that betrayed some slight level of anxiety. Like hard swallows. But he was relatively calm as a cucumber.

Very nervous? Not close. That would include signs like dry mouth, which actually appears with just general nervousness, trembling -we saw none- sweating (also none), breathlessness or inability to catch his breath (none), rapid blinking, etc.

I've seen more nerves in people giving a speech or stopped for a traffic violation!

Respectfully disagree. I immediately saw nervousness the first time I watched. Many body-language experts concur.

Here’s an analysis I thought was particularly good.

Chris Watts Interview: Decoding His Nonverbal Behavior

 

[Thepoet]

No way. Even the dumbest criminal knows as a spouse you will be the first suspect in a family disappearance. You don't leave a breadcrumb trail to the bodies unless it is the only option you have leaving you to hope for the best. No one thinks they are that smart, it is obvious even to a moron that will be followed up on.

They lived in Frederick, he told LE his day started at a site in Hudson which was 20 miles from his home. The actual disposal site was near Roggen was was another 20 miles away.

You're talking about, not just criminals, but killers, like they are normal people. They're not. I believe he thought he was so clever no one would suspect him. Again, look at his behavior with NAU and the police, his behavior with the friends he spent the night with, and his behavior at the interviews! Hiding the bodies at Hudson or close by would have been stupid. Hiding the bodies in the wilderness where you had no business being, would have been stupid. Doing it somewhere far out, but where you could conceivably be, well. . . . . .

It all comes back to the flight that was three hours late!

 

[MassGuy]

Respectfully disagree. I immediately saw nervousness the first time I watched. Many body-language experts concur.

Here’s an analysis I thought was particularly good.

Chris Watts Interview: Decoding His Nonverbal Behavior

That interview showed numerous signs of deception. As to nervousness, especially in a situation like that, it’s next to impossible to determine at the time, whether any nervousness is related to telling lies, or if someone is just uncomfortable in front of the camera. That farmer in the Mollie Tibbetts case being a perfect example of this.

 

[Seattle1]

Good morning,

Coffee and questions;

I've been reading about the tanks and I watched the Cervi tank video. In the hour drive from his house to the tanks, how many tanks and facilities did CW pass? Driving around with a body or bodies in his truck, why wouldn't he stop at the first one that was available? Unless everything was planned out and that particular far location was chosen ahead of time, and maybe prepared.

If he was in a panic, why drive for an hour when closer sites were available?

Why drive for an hour, risking being stopped by police, an accident, etc., when closer sites were available?

Would CW drive for an hour to a specific site unless it was a choice and he knew he could access it and the tanks?

Unless he had previously been to the site, how could he know;

1. He could enter the site AND get to. the tanks?
2. That the tanks weren't empty?
3. He could open the tanks?
4. What tool or tools were needed to. open the tanks?
5.What surveillance (cameras,etc.)
were present?
6. Whether or not other workers or. ranchers were around?

If he was in a panic or it was a random choice, why risk driving so far if other , closer facilities were available. Would he pass several possible sites in the hope the last and furthest one was better? Time was his enemy!

It may have been as simple as which location did CW have entry access to.

 

[BingoBongo]

I had a look too BB. Try imbd , he has a list on there.

This link also had 4 mistresses as current tally incl their hair color - based on FB groups.
I was at 6 incl the swingers woman last month. I don't think we've reached the bottom yet....




of journalism scrapes from FB!

Yeah, but that's "his" list. He wrote that biography, and can basically say whatever he wants. Am searching now for an actual gov't site that shows he was awarded any kind of gov't contract for such. So far, I've only found one listing at an official gov't site that says he replied to an RFP and was NOT awarded the contract on that RFP as it appeared he and his team didn't fully understand the requirements, but did have the qualifications.

Althought, in the scheme of things, this guys qualifications aren't really the issue. I actually agree with much of what he said about CW, but was curious as to who DY is, so did a little bit of sleuthing because his Linkedin seems hinky to me.

 

[Thepoet]

Respectfully disagree. I immediately saw nervousness the first time I watched. Many body-language experts concur.

Here’s an analysis I thought was particularly good.

Chris Watts Interview: Decoding His Nonverbal Behavior

The analysis you linked is very interesting. Another analysis noted cues that indicated calmness or lack of emotion, like NOT rubbing the eyes or face. To me it's a mixed bag, but all says; CW is lying and is guilty.

 

[gitana1]

No way. Even the dumbest criminal knows as a spouse you will be the first suspect in a family disappearance. You don't leave a breadcrumb trail to the bodies unless it is the only option you have leaving you to hope for the best. No one thinks they are that smart, it is obvious even to a moron that will be followed up on.

They lived in Frederick, he told LE his day started at a site in Hudson which was 20 miles from his home. The actual disposal site was near Roggen was was another 20 miles away.

Maybe he did stop in Hudson but determined that wasn't a good spot so he kept going. He would not be lying to police. They would see he stopped in Hudson. In fact, even better. He stops in Hudson but dumps the bodies elsewhere. He could imagine they would think a disposal of bodies would be at the first stop if anything.

 

[Hhskstev]

Excellent. That's true. Initially good planning; some place he was supposed to be, and yet far out, would mark any odors, and would eventually nullify all clues. That plan was ruined by the late flight.

I agree, at first i thought how stupid to conceal bodies at his work place but then realised he HAS to go to work! so he HAS to conceal them somewhere there and then return home to cover his tracks and make it look like they went missing. But he never got the chance to carry out his plan.

 

[sun16]

I agree. As of now, there isn’t any evidence that this crime was planned to occur on the night that it did. I think if there was a plan, it was vague in terms of timing and specificity.

Do you feel the children were alive when SW got home at 1:48am? And they all died sometime after 1:48am?

 

[Seattle1]

I don't know. There have been repeated lists of family annihilators who killed their kids because they wanted to be free. It's simple. No further explanation needed. No they overheard something or walked in on something and also had to be killed. Nothing. Just they wanted to be free from all family obligations.

These cases are stunning and confusing because by all accounts these were happy families from the outside and the murderers seemed to be great family men- good, loving dads.

But we've seen it over and over and over again.

"Seemed" is the key. Many had secret lives and all had hidden, defective characters.

He gets rid of his kids he doesn't have to worry about child support, child care, two girls missing their mommy, kids not getting along with the new mate or fling or whatever. He doesn't have to deal with former in laws who still want to see the kids. Or his own family who may want to be around more because of the existence of the kids.

No bedtimes. No naptimes. No potty training. School drop offs and pick ups. No daycare and pre school costs or babysitters costs. No tantrums. No sick kids in the middle of the night. No missing work (or play) due to sick kids. No shuffling around to dance classes or soccer. Girl Scouts or softball. No sports' fees. No school clothes. No parent teacher conferences. Back to school nights. Open house. No dental care costs. Medical care copays. No school fees. Or college costs.
No photos of dutiful dad carting them around on Halloween or taking them to boring 4th of July family barbecues.

He kills them and he's free. He would've been free. Free from drudgery. Responsibility. Expenses.

After the 6 week NC stay, and if CW had some perceived dis from SW family (i.e., given the marital chatter), can't help but think part of this strike against the babies especially was revenge and/or to hurt the surviving family. The visual of SW fathers grief will stay with me forever. I believe CW envied the support SW had, and that she might very well be able to move on without him.

 

[dixiegirl1035]

I think the judge decides. Looks like the sentencing court has discretion. If there's more than one victim a consecutive sentence could be more likely:

Concurrent vs. Consecutive Sentencing in Colorado | Denver Criminal Defense Attorneys | Arapahoe County Criminal Defense Law Firm

If the jury convicts him of second degree murder for Shanann, but with a heat of passion finding, he could get a reduced sentence.

Second degree murder = minimum of 16 years in Colorado and up to 48.

Second degree murder is reduced to third degree "extraordinary risk" felony with a range of 4-16 years, if they find he acted with a heat of passion.

"Second Degree Murder" |Colorado Law 18-3-103 C.R.S.

Class 3 Felony Crimes in Colorado

I believe there's no chance in hell a judge would sentence him to 4 years.

I don't see any scenario, even if he is believed, where a jury could find this to be just manslaughter "reckless killing". 2-6 years prison.
Colorado "manslaughter" laws (explained by defense lawyers)

@MCDRAW asked me last thread if I thought he could get acquitted. I'm pretty confident he won't. But I'm scared of the process to get there. Like a hung jury first.

I think, I hope, I pray it will be guilty of five counts of first degree murder.

thanks for answering, but this is still where I get very very confused.

How can he be convicted of second-degree murder when he doesn't have that charge? He only has a first degree charge? That's kind of like Caylee Anthony being overcharged and people saying she should have had a lesser charge.

another lawyer said the same thing here, but I still don't understand how first-degree can be a charge, but he be convicted of second-degree.

 

[MassGuy]

Do you feel the children were alive when SW got home at 1:48am? And they all died sometime after 1:48am?

It would be a guess on my part, but yes. I don’t think he killed the girls and waited for Shanann. I think it’s more likely he killed her first, likely in the course of an argument. Then the kids.

 

[DexterMorgan]

I agree the camera across the street was THE problem. It provided LE with absolute proof that CW was the only one who left the house that day.

In one of CW's media interviews, he was talking about his doorbell cam, and then he flung up his hand and arm and said something to the effect of "cameras over there". The way he did it was like cameras, cameras, cameras everywhere, dammit!

That was my impression, anyway.

 

[gitana1]

Respectfully disagree. I immediately saw nervousness the first time I watched. Many body-language experts concur.

Here’s an analysis I thought was particularly good.

Chris Watts Interview: Decoding His Nonverbal Behavior

Tells that he is guilty is vastly different from being "very nervous".

I've suffered anxiety all my life and have been very nervous on multiple occasions. I'm extremely sensitive to it in others, especially when they are performing or speaking in front of others. I immediately notice all the signs.

This guy showed deception and some slight anxiety. But he showed almost zero signs of heightened adrenaline apparent in someone who is highly nervous. This guy's whole family is dead and cops everywhere with dogs and...almost nothing. His detachment and lack of expression were chilling. He looked like a practiced liar to me. Concerned about being caught. Worried. But nowhere close to very nervous:

Colorado man's televised plea for the return of his wife and young daughters, who he is now accused of killing, shows arrogance and a lack of empathy, says a former FBI profiler.

Speaking Friday on CBSN, former FBI senior profiler and forensic behavioral expert Mary Ellen O'Toole said Watts' interview speaks to what he thinks is his ability to be persuasive.

"When somebody kills their own family and then they go on TV to say 'But I didn't have anything to do with it,' that ability to be so very sure of your own interpersonal skills that you can attempt to fool a national and international audience is very unusual," said O'Toole. "That's a lot of arrogance and confidence that you could pull this off, and that's not typical."
"There is a noticeable absence of emotional behavior or words of emotion like, 'I'm so scared,' 'I'm so worried about them,'" O'Toole said. "He talks about the house being empty, but that's not the same as expressions of empathy. There is an absence of that."
O'Toole noted that Watts took a defensive posture during the interview by crossing his arms over his body.
O'Toole said the interview demonstrates Watts' "selfish" thinking style, indicating he was likely demonstrating similar behavior before the murders and didn't "snap."

Former FBI profiler: Suspect's televised plea for slain family's return shows "arrogance"

 

[Hhskstev]

This crime is way too disorganized to be planned. This was an impulse with a hurried cover up that was halted in midway through.

People keep repeating how 'stupid' he is when in reality I think he was just reacting to the mess he created.

I agree with you! the only element of planning was in a panic. What do I now? Ive got to be in work in X hours. ok so Ill do this and Ill say this. Then Ill say she went to a friend's house....but all along even though in his panicked state he STILL remained calm enough to agree to an interview with media. He could have just said "sorry im too upset to talk" but no he actually thinks he is clever enough to fool everyone by doing an interview. He is deluded.

 

[gitana1]

Don't forget, he never rubbed his eyes or face, doing so would have been a sign of sadness or distress. And he primped for the reporter who commented on his shirt.

 

[Seattle1]

Tells that he is guilty is vastly different from being "very nervous".

I've suffered anxiety all my life and have been very nervous on multiple occasions. I'm extremely sensitive to it in others, especially when they are performing or speaking in front of others. I immediately notice all the signs.

This guy showed deception and some slight anxiety. But he showed almost zero signs of heightened adrenaline apparent in someone who is highly nervous. This guy's whole family is dead and cops everywhere with dogs and...almost nothing. His detachment and lack of expression were chilling. He looked like a practiced liar to me. Concerned about being caught. Worried. But nowhere close to very nervous:


Former FBI profiler: Suspect's televised plea for slain family's return shows "arrogance"

Absolutely - and as if CW believed his own story.

 

[Mrspratcher]

I too know people like that. It’s certainly possible that he had additional reasons behind having another child other than the marriage aspect. But on its face, I (now) understand why he wanted another child, especially when taken in conjunction with his lecture.

Perhaps to slow her down so his bruised ego wouldn’t need to compete against her. MOO

 

[Thepoet]

Well done. Thanks.

 

[Mo Thuairim]

Tells that he is guilty is vastly different from being "very nervous".

I've suffered anxiety all my life and have been very nervous on multiple occasions. I'm extremely sensitive to it in others, especially when they are performing or speaking in front of others. I immediately notice all the signs.

This guy showed deception and some slight anxiety. But he showed almost zero signs of heightened adrenaline apparent in someone who is highly nervous. This guy's whole family is dead and cops everywhere with dogs and...almost nothing. His detachment and lack of expression were chilling. He looked like a practiced liar to me. Concerned about being caught. Worried. But nowhere close to very nervous:

Former FBI profiler: Suspect's televised plea for slain family's return shows "arrogance"

Exactly. I mean it was far from a convincing performance, but he committed to it nonetheless under horrendously stressful conditions. I think lying was second nature to him. Makes me think if he could do that, then playing the perfect happy family man for social media — when he was seething inside — would have been no biggie.