Found Deceased CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #19

[ray9898]

Anyone else think that perhaps CW's statement to LE about having asked SW for a separation were said because he wanted his AP to hear that he'd asked SW for a separation?

Doubtful....he had to give LE a reason that would cause someone to leave. Few options that would provoke that hypothetical response.

 

[Tippy Lynn]

Anyone else think that perhaps CW's statement to LE about having asked SW for a separation were said because he wanted his AP to hear that he'd asked SW for a separation?

I think CW thought if he said he asked for a separation everyone would think SW must have been so distraught about it she up and left with the girls. CW is a simpleton with few words and simple thoughts.

 

[Mo Thuairim]

As he appears to have been short of time, he was probably more concerned with removing the bodies. Perhaps he was going to deal with those items when he returned from work and staged the scene, but then NU upset his little applecart.

And because he was stuck having to explain why those items were left behind, he then had to resort to suggesting a kidnapping. Which I highly doubt was his original plan.

 

[molly1255]

It seems to be wired into some women to hate other women when they are victims. Maybe it is a defence mechanism. I am not phony like her so it will not happen to me?

I agree. I also think they are lacking in the empathy department, possibly because they are lacking in some of life's tougher lessons and don't yet realize that but for the grace of G*d, this could happen to them.

 

[molly1255]

I think C.W. may have known about the neighbor’s camera - or, at the very least, I don’t think it really changed anything for him.

The affidavit states that C.W. *said* he backed his truck up around 5:27a - which was confirmed by the neighbor’s camera. If he didn’t know about the camera, wouldn’t he say that he left the house closer to his regular work time?

Also - pretty sure I read somewhere SW comment (at least once) about C.W. going to work at 5a... and didn’t the male AP say something about meeting up with C.W. before and after work?

JMO. I think CW knew about the GPS tracker on his truck and that it provides data on time and location.

 

[Thepoet]

Iirc a few tanks were passed along the way. See great video on YouTube called: “CW: Finding the Oil Tanks”

I'll check it out. Thanks!

 

[Ronso]

I agree. I also think they are lacking in the empathy department, possibly because they are lacking in some of life's tougher lessons and don't yet realize that but for the grace of G*d, this could happen to them.

Not just that, there are women who just hate other women. "I'm not like those other girls". "I don't do drama, so I only have guy friends." They may as well just be shouting, "Men, please pick me!" I touched on this once already waaaaay back in the threads, but the amount of men and women who both hate women alike will find fault no matter how "perfect" of a wife and mother Shan'ann was.

 

[Amandaaa]

JMO. I think CW knew about the GPS tracker on his truck and that it provides data on time and location.

Agreed.

Re: the video - he didn’t just admit to leaving at that time - he specifically admitted to backing the truck up to the garage to “load his tools”. To me, that suggests he either knew of the video or thought someone may have seen him.

 

[sun16]

It’d be interesting to know how the evening went that CW spent at the neighbor’s house. I think it was Tuesday night? What did they do all night? Sit around and talk? Eat dinner together at home? Watch TV? Did CW hole up in one of their spare bedrooms? Did he sleep through the night? Get up early the next day? Just wondering about that behavior.

 

[Thepoet]

Because so many of you have mentioned MacDonald, last night I got the audiobook, (Fatal Vision.) Something interesting occurred right at part 1 ch6. The military had not asked much of MacDonald, re his version. For 6 weeks they had been gathering evidence and were on to him. So they invited him in for his first interview, and after Mirandizing him, he says, nah, I don't need an attorney. So he blabs on for about 3-4 hours, contradicting himself, shooting out lead after lead for them to follow. Before this interview he either forgot, or didn't know that each person in his family had a different blood type, A AB B & O. So, it was like breadcrumbs for LE, they could follow the blood all over the house.

But here is how it relates to the Watts case, IMO. The interviews with CW were similar to the cocky attitude that Macdonald showed for so many hours. Guys that are so self deluding that they think they can bluff their way through life.

MacDonald had 2 daughters just a little bit older than the Watts kids. In the interview it was so telling, one just wouldn't quit wetting her bed, but she often got in bed with Mom and Dad and did the wetting there. Which could have been the trigger that night. He goes to bed with his now chubby 5 month pregnant wife, finds his side of the bed wet, and OMG. Also, in the interview he refers to one of them very very passive and girlish, and he says LIKE COLLETE. The other one tomboyish and take control kid. Paraphrased.

Remember when CW was critiquing the girls in his post murder interview, wouldn't eat right, whatever.

No psychologist here, but reading the MacDonald interview, pre-lawyering up, reminded so much of CW interview.

Excellent! Great job! I've always thought CW was very much like MacDonald and more like MacDonald than Peterson. The family structure, the personality, the lies.

MacDonald lied about

Because so many of you have mentioned MacDonald, last night I got the audiobook, (Fatal Vision.) Something interesting occurred right at part 1 ch6. The military had not asked much of MacDonald, re his version. For 6 weeks they had been gathering evidence and were on to him. So they invited him in for his first interview, and after Mirandizing him, he says, nah, I don't need an attorney. So he blabs on for about 3-4 hours, contradicting himself, shooting out lead after lead for them to follow. Before this interview he either forgot, or didn't know that each person in his family had a different blood type, A AB B & O. So, it was like breadcrumbs for LE, they could follow the blood all over the house.

But here is how it relates to the Watts case, IMO. The interviews with CW were similar to the cocky attitude that Macdonald showed for so many hours. Guys that are so self deluding that they think they can bluff their way through life.

MacDonald had 2 daughters just a little bit older than the Watts kids. In the interview it was so telling, one just wouldn't quit wetting her bed, but she often got in bed with Mom and Dad and did the wetting there. Which could have been the trigger that night. He goes to bed with his now chubby 5 month pregnant wife, finds his side of the bed wet, and OMG. Also, in the interview he refers to one of them very very passive and girlish, and he says LIKE COLLETE. The other one tomboyish and take control kid. Paraphrased.

Remember when CW was critiquing the girls in his post murder interview, wouldn't eat right, whatever.

No psychologist here, but reading the MacDonald interview, pre-lawyering up, reminded so much of CW interview.

Excellent! I've always thought CW is a lot like MacDonald and more like MacDonald than Peterson. The family structure, personality, lies, etc.

MacDonald lied about Kristin wetting the bed. It was Kimberly, it was matched to her. But MacDonald lied and continues to lie. Keeps saying it was the younger daughter. Why? That's one reason the S.F. Freddy thought there might have been molestation by MacDonald!

 

[PommyMommy]

It’d be interesting to know how the evening went that CW spent at the neighbor’s house. I think it was Tuesday night? What did they do all night? Sit around and talk? Eat dinner together at home? Watch TV? Did CW hole up in one of their spare bedrooms? Did he sleep through the night? Get up early the next day? Just wondering about that behavior.

They had pizza. AT and NT said he was concerned about how he came across in his interviews. They also said he never shed a tear. He stayed in the bedroom across the hall from their daughter's room. They called LE the next morning.

 

[NuttMegg]

Excellent! Great job! I've always thought CW was very much like MacDonald and more like MacDonald than Peterson. The family structure, the personality, the lies.

MacDonald lied about


Excellent! I've always though CW is a lot like MacDonald and more like MacDonald than Peterson. The family structure, personality, lies, etc.

MacDonald lied about Kristin wetting the bed. It was Kimberly, it was matched to her. But MacDonald lied and continues to lie. Keeps saying it was the younger daughter. Why? That's one reason the S.F. Freddy thought there might have been molestation by MacDonald!

If you go back and listen to that interview I mentioned, he gets the daughters mixed up, as you say, about who is the bed wetter. Also mixes up whether or not he was on the bed or the couch that night.

 

[Tippy Lynn]

It’d be interesting to know how the evening went that CW spent at the neighbor’s house. I think it was Tuesday night? What did they do all night? Sit around and talk? Eat dinner together at home? Watch TV? Did CW hole up in one of their spare bedrooms? Did he sleep through the night? Get up early the next day? Just wondering about that behavior.

I remember the Thayer's saying he didn't shed a tear or show any emotion. He acted normal like nothing was out of the ordinary. He didn't want to talk about their theories or dig in to what could have happened and he was on his phone a lot.

 

[evilgenuis1]

Excellent post. I agree with all of it.

I agree with all of this except the part about not realizing that SW wouldn't fit into the oil tank per the top hatch. How could he have not known that? He worked that same job for a number of years. The field operators lift those thief hatches for various reasons almost on a daily basis. At one time, the operators actually gauged the amount of of oil in the tanks by manually running a gauge line into the tank. I think that is automatically done now by a computerized device So, I am not buying that he didn't realize SW wouldn't fit in that tank! I have no idea what how he planned to dispose of SW, unless he planned something much more diabolical, like dismembering and then disposing in the tank, but at a later time. No time for that right then!

 

[Mo Thuairim]

I agree. I also think they are lacking in the empathy department, possibly because they are lacking in some of life's tougher lessons and don't yet realize that but for the grace of G*d, this could happen to them.

I agree. I think it may also be some version of the 'just world fallacy'. People cannot wrap their heads around how something so horrific could happen to an innocent person that they find themselves looking for clues for how she might have — somehow — helped bring it upon herself. It's a way to distance themselves from the terrifying notion that, ultimately, this could happen to anyone. And she is totally blameless.

 

[Thepoet]

It’d be interesting to know how the evening went that CW spent at the neighbor’s house. I think it was Tuesday night? What did they do all night? Sit around and talk? Eat dinner together at home? Watch TV? Did CW hole up in one of their spare bedrooms? Did he sleep through the night? Get up early the next day? Just wondering about that behavior.

I've read his behavior was so odd that when he left, the neighbors went straight to the police!

 

[gitana1]

@gitana1 Hi Gitana, I have a couple of questions,
1. When a suspect makes a confession, is the entire confession usually included in the affadavit, or just a brief synopsis of it?
2. How come so many LE are included on the witness list? Is that normal?
Thanks!

Just a synopsis.
And anyone who might have anything to do with the investigation may be listed just in case. Not everyone listed will testify.

 

[Thepoet]

If you go back and listen to that interview I mentioned, he gets the daughters mixed up, as you say, about who is the bed wetter. Also mixes up whether or not he was on the bed or the couch that night.

Colette supposedly told her psych class that night that MacDonald sometimes slept in the bed with Kimberley and sent her/Colette to the living room. Freddy felt Colette may have walked in on MacDonald doing something bad, started screaming at him, hit him with her hair brush, and the genie was out of the bottle! That's one theory.

 

[gitana1]

I would have thought that meant the baby died as a result of her death, but the wording makes it sound like she died as a result of the baby's death, which is gruesome on a whole other level.

I imagine that life was just not working out as he intended so he decided to start over. These guys do not see other people as important or existing outside of his own perception. Other people, even their children, are accoutrements to his image and when he is ready for something else, he gets them out of the way and on to the next thing.

I co-parent with one. I was lucky to have been given the chance to get out with my daughter under the oversight of the law and the courts while he was in jail. My exes' goal is to ruin me and take full custody, and as long as I prevent that, he continues to compete in the better parent game, which keeps my child as safe as she can be while she is with him, because his image of being as good of a parent as me is important to him as long as I am in the picture. And he knows I will go legal on him at any mis-step.

.

You're in a very tough spot.

As to the wording of the crime charged, we've gone around and around on this. The DA was clear in the presser.

He terminated the pregnancy with the intent to terminate the pregnancy. The manner in which he terminated the pregnancy was killing the mother. He killed her with the intent to kill the fetus. The fact that he also intended to kill her is irrelevant to this charge.

So he terminated the pregnancy via strangulation of the mother, with the intent to destroy the baby and she died as a result. Because he strangled her.

He didn't want her and he didn't want the baby.

 

[SweetPeas56]

Where can I find the Watts' address? I know I've seen it, but I don't recall it. I saw a posting of a maps image of the home, and I was struck by two things: the closeness of the houses and the area behind their backyard. I'd heard about them, but SEEING the pic had more impact. However he did it, he must have kept the noise down somehow. I think that back area was going to be part of his plan for explaining how SW and the girls left the house. I wanted to share the visual here, but the pic I saw was on social media so I couldn't share it directly here. If I get the address, I can get to the image myself and share it.