Found Deceased CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #21

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  • #621
I have a difficult time thinking he was observing religious restrictions on methods of burial after he (IMO) killed them and took them off for that horrid burial without even having authorities check to see if they were alive or if they could be helped.
Haaaa, I agree. Spinning the dumping of the bodies in oil, into some scenario of C.W. giving the kids what he thought was a “proper burial,” is a stretch. It would be hilarious, if not for the grim reality here.
 
  • #622
@Trinket78 there are rumors he deactivated his fb about a week before the crime, do you think it’s related to the affair and did his partner know he was married with another baby on the way?
 
  • #623
Must have been an important occasion to leave the kids with a babysitter after being away from them for so long. IMO

Right. I am still wondering how we know that he got a babysitter on Saturday, though. It has probably been stated somewhere, but I have not found this information on my own anywhere.
 
  • #624
We really do not have confirmation about there being a babysitter on Saturday evening. The father of the child celebrating a birthday on Sunday allegedly posted that his daughter babysat the girls on Saturday, which was construed as occurring on Saturday 8/11, but then his wife allegedly posted a correction that her daughter was helping assemble birthday party guest bags on 8/11, and that it she babysat the Saturday prior. I know these posts have been circulating, and maybe somebody captured screen shots. MOO

Unrelated to the named babysitter above , an earlier, unverified insider indicated that CW had the girls out late Saturday at a friends house. At first I thought she meant they spent the night at friends house but Member corrected me and said that CW took the girls home late. I'm wondering if the 3 of them were at a friends home, and CW stepped out for a few hours, and later in the evening collected the girls and took them home. Perhaps this explains the "babysitter" theory. I believe these friends may be witnesses and why they've not spoken. Are there any reports that the girls were tired, lethargic at the birthday? I believe they had a fairly early bedtime schedule. MOO
Thanks, then I won't post about that anymore, I guess I thought it had been posted so much that it was verified. The whole thing is bad enough without accusing him of things he (maybe) really didn't do at all.
 
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  • #625
It really is hard. I deal with it myself but to a lesser degree. I know my husband tunes me out. My mil, ugh...n/v...

I believe she had fibro and lupus and I believe the kids were legitimately sick, and I'm sure if given the chance they would have outgrown many of the issues. Adenoid issues for one is very common. But even so, SW still could have enjoyed getting attention. She enjoyed fb live, plugging Thrive, selling. She was Type A and dominant. But, none of this is of bad character. In the videos I saw of her I thought she lacked self-awareness, perhaps even exhibited a bit of a mean streak. CW seemed to be quite self-aware but a push-over. SW did show some contempt for CW and perhaps there was a reason for that. Despite all of this, while analyzing these 2 to try and get a grasp on their relationship dynamic (and perhaps to even find a "why") it doesn't change the fact that CW murdered SW and his son. And one thing is very clear -- you can't judge a book by it's cover! Still, we are only burdened by the rules of this site, not as a judge and jury. Since CW is still innocent of killing his girls until proven otherwise, meaning it has to be proven SW did, we should be free to analyze and make our own summations...again, within the constraints of this site, of course.
Actually, I misstated...
It has to be proven by the prosecution that he did kill his girls, not that she did. (Right?)
 
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  • #626
That is a very good question. Kudos. Were the price tags hanging off, like Minnie Pearl?
I would suppose since the insult was “skater boy “ and the style of clothes were new and different jmo
 
  • #627
Entirely possible! (I've personally not done that b/c I've been the same size for a long time.... but yes- entirely possible)

jumping off ur post, sorry Peony but it's easier

I actually hadn't thought about it before but iirc he changed his style markedly from 2010.

I'm not getting into the issues around the comments SW made about his old style, just saying what I have seen in terms of his pix over the years.
Another caveat to all ( exhausting constant self-qualification- nb I am not making any judgement on pple changing their style or women buying their OH clothes etc etc etc....aaargh)
 
  • #628
What if CW killed the girls, accidently or deliberately, and then prepared them for later. But later turned out to actually be; much later. SW finally comes home, as you described, and he kills her. Probably quickly, because there appears to be little crime scene. Now time is his enemy. And plans have to change and things have to be done quickly!

Time was clearly his enemy because he left too many loose ends. I go back and forth between he killed them already to everything happened at once. I mean he waited until 5:15 AM to back up his truck into the garage and left sheets in the trashcan, etc. That leads me to believe everything happened in a much shorter space of time than he had killed them hours before her.
 
  • #629
MerryB wrote (I hit Quote and it didn't work, so am pasting the text in quotes that I'm referring to here):
"IRC:
Asthma-both
Nuts-CC
Celiac-B
Esophageal thing (can’t recall proper name)-B
Periodic Fever Syndrome-both
Adenoid/ENT issues-both"

I believe the esophageal illness was described as the acronym "EOE."

I just looked up EOE, Celiac and Periodic Fever Syndrome. EOE might be genetic - one site refers to recent research on the subject. PFS sounds like it can be genetic. Celiac Disease is hard to diagnose (one becomes gluten intolerant and symptoms mimic other illnesses so often can remain undiagnosed for at least the first 6-10 yrs of a child's life) so in addition to avoiding nuts for CeCe, maybe Bella had to avoid certain wheat-based foods as well that contain gluten. I'm amazed they were diagnosed with those at such young ages (minus the Celiac for CeCe) as often doctors, even with adults, send you home time and time again with a diagnosis of "Oh, it's viral" or "Oh, you ate something that didn't agree with you" and so on. But maybe with SWs history of various illnesses, they went right to bloodwork and extensive testing.

It makes me wonder as it has been said she was in doctor's offices very frequently for awhile (was that still the case?) - why have a third child who most likely might only be prone to illnesses such as these as well? More stress on the parents, more money spent on office visits, and such. Just wondering if that came into play on their last horrific night. The asthma, nut allergy and adenoid issue seem common to me. Then you start factoring in all of these other conditions...

The children's chronic illnesses may well have triggered the final crisis. Sinus and ear infections are painful and interfere with sleep of both child and parents. CW had to go to work early and SW walked in the door at 2AM and it has been said that she also wasn't feeling well. I think it very possible it turned into a recipe for disaster. JMO
 
  • #630
Watching the trend in these posts alone I’m a lot less convinced he’ll be convicted of the girl’s murders than I was in the beginning. Unless there’s compelling forensic evidence (time of death differences, proof of premeditation like google searches, etc). there’s enough reasonable doubt drummed up just by our conversations and sleuthing to sway some jurors. Imagine what a defense attorney with access to evidence and full time staff could do. What’s max sentence for murder in the second and tampering with bodies?

I'm sure the defense already has feelers out online and elsewhere trying to see what story might work best. JMO.

Also JMO, no matter how good the story, I don't think it will be possible with jurors who don't know anyone involved in the case, to overcome the fact that CW removed the bodies from the house and hid them. And then lied to LE. And then gave three media interviews in which he chuckled, smirked and smiled as he lied to the public.

And that is before we even get to any possible other evidence that LE may have collected that shows he killed all three, with deliberation. That's just three of the charges, but the really big ones that I do believe will land him on death row or in prison with multiple life sentences.

JMO
 
  • #631
Also, and this is just my opinion: the videos make me uncomfortable. It does seem that there was a teasing of the kids that SW saw as loving and affectionate, the same way she (according to Trinket78) teased CW. To force a child to get whipped cream in her face when she continually expresses that she does not want this, even hiding under a chair, is not something that is okay in my world. But it is a different parenting style, not a crime. What struck me as even more odd was CW's utter inability to truly engage with his kids. He does what she says and says "nice. nice. nice." He is not spontaneous or playful or connected. He may freeze up on camera, he may be an extremely inarticulate man, or he may be someone who was going through the motions and already checked out in certain ways. OR he was going along with something he hated. All MOO.
 
  • #632
Exactly. There isn't a law that states one must get the permission from their spouse before they leave. If he wanted out, he could have always left and as long as he paid his financial obligations for SW and his daughters, no crime would have been committed. JMO.
Right. And that's what makes me think he thought he HAD to kill her. Which makes me wonder why he thought he HAD to kill her....and I think it's because he killed the children. The more and more I think about it, I think he lost his cool with one girl and killed her in the heat of anger (not intentionally) and then panicked and started to cover up by killing the other. He couldn't face SW so killed her too.

Gawd awful scenario, but that's where I am right now. Subject to change at any moment. My opinion might not match others' opinion.
 
  • #633
Haaaa, I agree. Spinning the dumping of the bodies in oil, into some scenario of C.W. giving the kids what he thought was a “proper burial,” is a stretch. It would be hilarious, if not for the grim reality here.

Has anyone said that though MG?
I'm reading Nutmegg's post and I can't find it "scenario of C.W. giving the kids what he thought was a “proper burial.”

I have a difficult time thinking he was observing religious restrictions on methods of burial after he (IMO) killed them and took them off for that horrid burial without even having authorities check to see if they were alive or if they could be helped.
 
  • #634
@Trinket78

Have you heard that CW deactivated his Facebook account and/or social media the week before the tragedy?

Can you confirm that this is true? Do you know why it was done, and if you don't personally know why, does it mean anything to you?

Thank you.
 
  • #635
MOO

I think perspective is important. It's easy to get distracted by a theory, SM posts or watching videos, and get drawn in by the specificity. In the narrow perspective things may look logical and/or acceptable. However, there is a big picture and, in my opinion, it is best to keep it clearly in mind. It is also best to remember Occam's razor (see below).

CW CONFESSED to killing SW, which would include the unborn baby. Two killings (murders?)! By his own admission; HE IS A KILLER, and by his own admission; HE TOOK NO OTHER ACTION!

CW has given no indication that he tried to resuscitate, or help the girls in any way!

CW then had the opportunity to call for help. He did not call for help!

Instead;

CW took the bodies over forty miles away (an hour trip?) to a remote location. He placed the girls bodies in tanks of oil. Each in a separate tank. The most logical reason for this is to mask the small of decomposition and to destroy evidence. The most logical explanation for separate tanks is to avoid a volume disruption/increase that might be noticed by sensors. The most logical explanation for the girl's being wrapped in their blankets is to make handling them easier and to hide them while they are in the truck and being moved.

CW buried SW in a shallow grave at the same location. The most logical explanation is that the grave was temporary and he planned to return and move the body.

CW went to work without notifying anyone of what happened and made calls and texts to SW's phone to make it look as if she were still alive.

CW had the opportunity with NAU and LE to tell the truth. He lied! He lied repeatedly. He misled LE obstructing the investigation.

CW gave interviews, where and when, he repeatedly perpetuated the idea that SW, Cece, and Bella were still alive and missing. His behavior was odd, at best, and contrary to that of a concerned and/or grieving parent/spouse. At times he was happy, perhaps even gleeful.

CW's behavior was so odd when he stayed with friends, that they immediately contacted LE when he left.

CW had the opportunity to tell the truth to LE and help with finding the bodies, instead he delayed and bargained.

CW, after being caught in more lies, ADMITTED he was having an affair with a co-worker. He has admitted being an adulterer!

SM and Videos give a narrow and limited view and are open to interpretation. CW's words and actions are obvious and clear.

"Occam's razor (or Ockham's razor) is a principle from philosophy. Suppose there exist two explanations for an occurrence. In this case the simpler one is usually better. Another way of saying it is that the more assumptions you have to make, the more unlikely an explanation" - Wikipedia

Great post (((hugs)))
Rest in peace beautiful souls 9ed546572400612a27d2a829dee15f62.jpg
 
  • #636
The children's chronic illnesses may well have triggered the final crisis. Sinus and ear infections are painful and interfere with sleep of both child and parents. CW had to go to work early and SW walked in the door at 2AM and it has been said that she also wasn't feeling well. I think it very possible it turned into a recipe for disaster. JMO
I guess it's possible he killed one then the other out of frustration, leading to him also killing SW. No matter how this is sliced though, he is DUNZO. (moo)
 
  • #637
Time was clearly his enemy because he left too many loose ends. I go back and forth between he killed them already to everything happened at once. I mean he waited until 5:15 AM to back up his truck into the garage and left sheets in the trashcan, etc. That leads me to believe everything happened in a much shorter space of time than he had killed them hours before her.
I understand what you're saying and I have vacillated myself, but I keep coming back to "he killed the girls first". As far as the truck, he probably didn't want to be seen at an unusual hour. Do we know if there are police or security patrols in that neighborhood at night? Someone who might have stopped to inquire, if CW or an open garage door were seen at an unusual hour? He probably felt safe leaving things as they were inside the house and figured he'd be back later. Didn't expect NAU to show up!
 
  • #638
That is a very good question. Kudos. Were the price tags hanging off, like Minnie Pearl?
I know this because she bought a new wardrobe for him. Packed his old clothes up.
 
  • #639
Has anyone said that though MG?
I'm reading Nutmegg's post and I can't find it "scenario of C.W. giving the kids what he thought was a “proper burial.”
I was agreeing with @Nutmegg though?
 
  • #640
Right. And that's what makes me think he thought he HAD to kill her. Which makes me wonder why he thought he HAD to kill her....and I think it's because he killed the children. The more and more I think about it, I think he lost his cool with one girl and killed her in the heat of anger (not intentionally) and then panicked and started to cover up by killing the other. He couldn't face SW so killed her too.

Gawd awful scenario, but that's where I am right now. Subject to change at any moment. My opinion might not match others' opinion.

I can see this as being very possible.

His fear of jail was worse than his fear of life without his remaining family. How he could want to be alive after murdering any of them is inconceivable to me.
 
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