Found Deceased CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #22

[molly1255]

Similarly, I went through the scenario in my mind thinking through "what if CW is telling the truth?"

When listening to Levi from last night's radio show, iirc, he mentioned CW and speculation into his character towards the end. It got me thinking.

If you think about the idea of someone (CW) staking claiming to the supposed heroic act of hiding his children in oil tanks, with the intent of preserving SW's character due to her actions, one can speculate that he intended to simply carry on with his life with SW's deed "swept under the rug" after this. He knows SW is dead because he killed her, and that the children are dead, but he is personally committed to a lifetime of sticking to his story so that nobody will ever think poorly of SW.

So for someone who has already mentally committed to preserving his wife's ghastly murders of her children for the foreseeable future, why would this same person cave so quickly to LE even with the drone evidence, or whatever else they may have presented him with that ultimately led to the confession? Logically I can't believe that the same person, with the personal integrity of saving their spouse from public humiliation by covering up the murder of their two children, would subsequently, and seemingly within hours, throw in the cards and give his spouse up as the one to blame. Why the change of heart? Therefore, I find it difficult to believe that. Those were my thoughts only. JMO.

JMO, I don't he ever had a change of heart about SW
throughout this entire ordeal. My thoughts are his most recent statement about SW murdering the girls has a lot to do with the contempt he feels toward SW, and is akin to murdering her twice.

It's also a way for him to try to mitigate consequences in the whole matter, to get a lighter sentence, because he's already proven that he does lie to try to avoid consequences. JMO.

All JMO.

 

[Seattle1]

Has COD been announced?

No autopsy and no COD yet. Per CW, manner of death was alleged strangulation.

 

[Tippy Lynn]

This is exactly what I’ve been thinking... we have SO little actual information about this case - most of which comes from the affidavit - and then an awful lot of rumor and conjecture and dubious conclusions.

Believe me, I am not at ALL trying to ignore or minimize or excuse what C.W. has confessed to doing... but as for the rest there are still so many unknowns. I’m quite honestly shocked by some of what I’ve been seeing... people don’t just have an “opinion” about this case - they seem utterly *convinced* of CW’s guilt (beyond his confession) and are unwilling to entertain any information that isn’t in line with the conclusion they’ve already reached.

Regarding the charges - as with everything, take them with a grain of salt. Prosecutors charge the most serious offenses - which will often include multiple lesser included offenses - they are being conservative to cover their bases. Later on it has to be shown that there’s enough evidence to have those charges actually go to trial. The fact that charges are brought initially does not mean those charges will actually get to trial.

And even if those charges get to trial - remember that CW is presumed innocent until proven guilty, and he is entitled to be heard by a jury of his peers. His version of events is at odds with the charges and he has denied killing the girls. It is absolutely imperative that those jurors be willing to look at ALL the evidence and consider this case as specifically instructed. The jury can’t just reach the conclusion that he’s guilty of killing the girls, simply because he put them in the oil tanks - he’s admitted to that, and it’s a separate charge. The State has to prove, beyond a reasonable doubt, that he killed them - and has to prove each and every element of the crime. It is easy to see why it’s important for C.W., as his life is at stake - but it’s also a critical part of our justice system as a whole.

At this stage, I haven’t seen anything that would make me believe he killed them - nor have I seen anything that would make me believe she did, either. The Facebook videos may provide a little insight into their respective personalities and the nature of the relationship, but I don’t see anything that would indicate either of them would be capable of killing the girls...yet one of them did. I also don’t draw much (if anything) from his interviews - I viewed him as being nervous and untruthful, not delighted or gloating. We know he was lying, regardless of which version of events is to be believed - so IMO, his demeanor fits.

I am very interested to hear from people who knew CW and SW. It’s not victim blaming - it’s first hand observations and opinions and I think it’s relevant to helping to understand their personalities and relationship and how it got to this point. That being said, I’m not sure it really helps me figure out who killed the girls.

Just my 2 cents...

EXCELLENT POST @amandaa

 

[Inthedetails]

No autopsy and no COD yet. Per CW, manner of death was alleged strangulation.

Right. So I think we can include other options at the moment.

COD is probably strangulation, but until we know for sure, I'm not taking the word of a proven liar that everyone died from strangulation.

If strangulation is released as official COD, then of course, it will be fact.

jmo

 

[Waterdog]

I think we have hints that point to that:

* He was taking care of the two kids after they just returned home from an extended time away and Mom just left for out-of-town trip. That can be a tough transition and tough transitions can mean fussy kids and impatient parents.
* They spent the afternoon at a birthday party. Again, that can mean wound-up kids and impatient parent.
* He had just spent several weeks on his own and it's entirely possible he enjoyed it and was not enjoying being a single-dad that weekend. His temper may have been short.
* He mentions he wishes the kids could come back so he could tell them to finish their dinner. Odd comment. Possibly a clue to their last interaction or a clue to what set him off. Yes, this is a guess, not a fact.
* An accidental death doesn't mean he strangled her accidentally. Perhaps she died another way. We don't know yet.

Perhaps he lost his temper at a fussy kid at dinner and unintentionally killed a daughter. The other daughter likely witnessed the temper and violence. So in a panic he killed her too. Then he killed his wife.

I do not think he showed his wife the deceased children but the exact opposite. I don't think he wanted her to know anything, didn't want to face her wrath, but just wanted it over with. I don't think he really "wanted" to kill everyone....but, of course, he did and he is responsible.

Just a theory I have going. Not the only one, but it's the one that makes sense to me. And it's a change from my original theory that he planned the murders. I changed my mind after viewing the videos that others find objectionable to draw conclusions from. I did draw a working-theory conclusion, but I still think he's the guilty party.

jmopinion at the moment, subject to change as we learn more

Kudos. Not that it is justification in any way...just looking at the why and how, but I can see this based on what I have gathered of his and her personality (just my impression!) that if he did kill the girls, say, it is one by accident and the other to cover, he would NOT want to face her wrath. In that moment, it's possible that that would have been worse for him than her death. And the "oh sh*t" cover up afterwards.

But, because of his affairs, the rumblings of a separation, the debt, the stress, etc...I'm more inclined to believe it was a perfect storm for murder in the 1st.

 

[newsjunkie]

JMO, I don't he ever had a change of heart about SW
throughout this entire ordeal. My thoughts are his most recent statement about SW murdering the girls has a lot to do with the contempt he feels toward SW, and is akin to murdering her twice.

It's also a way for him to try to mitigate consequences in the whole matter, to get a lighter sentence, because he's already proven that he does lie to try to avoid consequences. JMO.

All JMO.

It’s very reminiscent of Jodi Arias and her trashing Travis’ character as a way to defend her actions....that she had previously lied about with version after version of what “really” happened.

 

[BayouBelle_LA]

Well, pretty big deal if the prosecuting atty is publicly saying the defendant is a monster. IMO

I don't think that happened. A poster upthread said they made a mistake and confused this case with the Mollie Tibbetts case.

ETA- I'm going with false since a link hasn't been provided.

 

[kirkassoc]

Kudos. Not that it is justification in any way...just looking at the why and how, but I can see this based on what I have gathered of his and her personality (just my impression!) that if he did kill the girls, say, it is one by accident and the other to cover, he would NOT want to face her wrath. In that moment, it's possible that that would have been worse for him than her death. And the "oh ****" cover up afterwards.

But, because of his affairs, the rumblings of a separation, the debt, the stress, etc...I'm more inclined to believe it was a perfect storm for murder in the 1st.

JMO, of course....but I believe he killed them ALL because he wanted to search around in some other "greener pastures." I believe it was premeditated...but how long in advance may be proven later. Again, JMO I do not believe there was any accident, AT ALL. MOO

 

[MJPeony]

I agree, if he was innocent of ill intent his behavior would be different. Unless the defense can bring in a psychiatrist with an explanation this will be the last thread in his undoing.

I was not implying CW was "innocent of ill intent" in my thought experiment. (I believe my words were : 'Is it possible he was absolutely terrified, as opposed to his actions ONLY pointing to a nefarious coverup that can only point to him having killed all of them.')

I was contemplating whether or not his hiding and cover-up could be attributed to a "psychotic break" of sorts as opposed to proving he himself killed the girls.

Again, I think most of us who are attempting to do some analytical thinking around whether it's even possible CW's version of the truth could be accurate have never implied that CW isn't guilty of murder and coverup. He is. I mean no snarky disrespect- but this is not only obvious, but I find it slightly odd to imply we believe CW is an innocent individual. On the contrary- most of us have repeatedly said we know he is guilty of horrific acts. We are only trying to analyze his version of events.

(EBM to "killed the children" to "girls" for clarity.)

 

[Inthedetails]

JMO, of course....but I believe he killed them ALL because he wanted to search around in some other "greener pastures." I believe it was premeditated...but how long in advance may be proven later. Again, JMO I do not believe there was any accident, AT ALL. MOO

Message received loud and clear.

I have more than one working theory at the moment. I changed my mind over the course of the discussion to add more ideas as well as discard other ideas that I once had but figured out didn't work. I'll continue to do that. As we learn more facts and hear more insights, I'll continue to adjust.

I haven't settled on one exact theory, but respectfully and clearly understand that others have decided they know what happened.

jmo

 

[Layla123]

Doesn't it seem to anyone else that they would have those data by now? I am surprised that nearly a month later that stuff is being "requested". Does a person charged with so many counts of murder actually have the right to be somewhat politely asked for this? And to say "no" if he wants?

I thought that, too, but then I thought last week AB said the prosecutors hadn’t received the Coroner’s Report yet. I’m thinking they received it.

 

[gitana1]

Amazing job, @gitana1 !!

Thanks so much! And I've wanted to thank you for getting verified and coming on board!

 

[PommyMommy]

I think we have hints that point to that:

* He was taking care of the two kids after they just returned home from an extended time away and Mom just left for out-of-town trip. That can be a tough transition and tough transitions can mean fussy kids and impatient parents.
* They spent the afternoon at a birthday party. Again, that can mean wound-up kids and impatient parent.
* He had just spent several weeks on his own and it's entirely possible he enjoyed it and was not enjoying being a single-dad that weekend. His temper may have been short.
* He mentions he wishes the kids could come back so he could tell them to finish their dinner. Odd comment. Possibly a clue to their last interaction or a clue to what set him off. Yes, this is a guess, not a fact.
* An accidental death doesn't mean he strangled her accidentally. Perhaps she died another way. We don't know yet.

Perhaps he lost his temper at a fussy kid at dinner and unintentionally killed a daughter. The other daughter likely witnessed the temper and violence. So in a panic he killed her too. Then he killed his wife.

I do not think he showed his wife the deceased children but the exact opposite. I don't think he wanted her to know anything, didn't want to face her wrath, but just wanted it over with. I don't think he really "wanted" to kill everyone....but, of course, he did and he is responsible.

Just a theory I have going. Not the only one, but it's the one that makes sense to me. And it's a change from my original theory that he planned the murders. I changed my mind after viewing the videos that others find objectionable to draw conclusions from. I did draw a working-theory conclusion, but I still think he's the guilty party.

jmopinion at the moment, subject to change as we learn more

I respect your opinion and will say that mine is subject to change as well. However, with respect to the transitions and the children's possible behavior following the birthday party, being fussy etc., (things that parents deal with on a regular basis), it is not unheard of for a parent's reaction to those kind of things to cause an unintentional death. What I have trouble swallowing in this scenario is that he would go on to kill two other people to hide the accident instead of calling 911. Seems unlikely. MOO

 

[Sleuthine]

Random thought regarding all this video digging by some of us: I think what makes it so hard for many of us is that this could have been us. Two young kids, normal life. So despite this being a sleuthering forum we are grasping for straws why and where this marriage went badly or if CW happened to be a born killer. So difficult to understand that this just could happen to anyone out of the blue without any motive.

 

[Layla123]

Doesn't it seem to anyone else that they would have those data by now? I am surprised that nearly a month later that stuff is being "requested". Does a person charged with so many counts of murder actually have the right to be somewhat politely asked for this? And to say "no" if he wants?

https://www.courts.state.co.us/user...OF CRIMINAL PROCEDURE, RULE 16 II (a) (1).pdf

 

[gitana1]

He said in his interview the garage door was unlocked.
Wonder why police couldn't have just walked in then and what all the keypad nonsense was all about... I'm sure this has been addressed many, many threads back and I've forgotten!

Yes. When Nickole was at the house freaking out the police arrived first and asked him for the key code to enter the garage. He claimed it wasn't working (convenient), but he would be there in five minutes. It's in the affidavit. So I guess no way into the back unlocked door to the garage except through the garage door.
I believe he opened it with the garage door remote when he got there?
It seems clear to me he didn't want them to enter without him.

 

[Waterdog]

I was not implying CW was "innocent of ill intent" in my thought experiment. (I believe my words were : 'Is it possible he was absolutely terrified, as opposed to his actions ONLY pointing to a nefarious coverup that can only point to him having killed all of them.')

I was contemplating whether or not his hiding and cover-up could be attributed to a "psychotic break" of sorts as opposed to proving he himself killed the girls.

Again, I think most of us who are attempting to do some analytical thinking around whether it's even possible CW's version of the truth could be accurate have never implied that CW isn't guilty of murder and coverup. He is. I mean no snarky disrespect- but this is not only obvious, but I find it slightly odd to imply we believe CW is an innocent individual. On the contrary- most of us have repeatedly said we know he is guilty of horrific acts. We are only trying to analyze his version of events.

(EBM to "killed the children" to "girls" for clarity.)

?
I never said anything about innocence, nor do I think you think he is innocent. You're the one implying.

 

[gitana1]

Random thought regarding all this video digging by some of us: I think what makes it so hard for many of us is that this could have been us. Two young kids, normal life. So despite this being a sleuthering forum we are grasping for straws why and where this marriage went badly or if CW happened to be a born killer. So difficult to understand that this just could happen to anyone out of the blue without any motive.

I think you're right.

Thrive Healthy Fit Mom on Instagram: “I love when she comes to snuggle me in the morning! #WakeUpSnugglesAreTheBest”

 

[wattsgoingon]

@margarita25 Yep, its the only reason I'm here. (Sorry, couldn't reply on the older thread with your quote but hopefully you'll know what I mean)

 

[MJPeony]

This is exactly what I’ve been thinking... we have SO little actual information about this case - most of which comes from the affidavit - and then an awful lot of rumor and conjecture and dubious conclusions.

Believe me, I am not at ALL trying to ignore or minimize or excuse what C.W. has confessed to doing... but as for the rest there are still so many unknowns. I’m quite honestly shocked by some of what I’ve been seeing... people don’t just have an “opinion” about this case - they seem utterly *convinced* of CW’s guilt (beyond his confession) and are unwilling to entertain any information that isn’t in line with the conclusion they’ve already reached.

Regarding the charges - as with everything, take them with a grain of salt. Prosecutors charge the most serious offenses - which will often include multiple lesser included offenses - they are being conservative to cover their bases. Later on it has to be shown that there’s enough evidence to have those charges actually go to trial. The fact that charges are brought initially does not mean those charges will actually get to trial.

And even if those charges get to trial - remember that CW is presumed innocent until proven guilty, and he is entitled to be heard by a jury of his peers. His version of events is at odds with the charges and he has denied killing the girls. It is absolutely imperative that those jurors be willing to look at ALL the evidence and consider this case as specifically instructed. The jury can’t just reach the conclusion that he’s guilty of killing the girls, simply because he put them in the oil tanks - he’s admitted to that, and it’s a separate charge. The State has to prove, beyond a reasonable doubt, that he killed them - and has to prove each and every element of the crime. It is easy to see why it’s important for C.W., as his life is at stake - but it’s also a critical part of our justice system as a whole.

At this stage, I haven’t seen anything that would make me believe he killed them - nor have I seen anything that would make me believe she did, either. The Facebook videos may provide a little insight into their respective personalities and the nature of the relationship, but I don’t see anything that would indicate either of them would be capable of killing the girls...yet one of them did. I also don’t draw much (if anything) from his interviews - I viewed him as being nervous and untruthful, not delighted or gloating. We know he was lying, regardless of which version of events is to be believed - so IMO, his demeanor fits.

I am very interested to hear from people who knew CW and SW. It’s not victim blaming - it’s first hand observations and opinions and I think it’s relevant to helping to understand their personalities and relationship and how it got to this point. That being said, I’m not sure it really helps me figure out who killed the girls.

Just my 2 cents...

Great post.