Found Deceased CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #22

[Mo Thuairim]

I'm getting confused. Did she or didn't she?

I haven't seen the December 2017 posts yet but this is what she posted on May 7 ("not pregnant" but "thinking" about it).
Shanann Watts

 

[Allabouttrial]

I wonder if CW knew about the doctor appt. Maybe, he had selective hearing. Seems weird to murder someone when they had such an important appointment. Her friends would want to know how it went.

Hmmm that's a good point.

 

[human]

This is from DWilson, British criminologist who has researched the field.
main proviso is that this is an area which is evolving, new research. See if you think CW case fits one of these sub-groups. Obviously as it's a developing academic area, not all crimes will fit the patterns. Some killers we think of as FA don't even come under the research criteria.

It is not cut & dried, so to speak, as we can all see from this extract

* "Family annihilators have received little attention as a separate category of killer.....Using newspaper archives to analyse three decades of family annihilation, from 1980 to 2012.....81 per cent of the men attempted suicide after the act,

Family breakup was the most common cause, accounting for 66 per cent of cases, although this included related domestic issues such as access to children. Financial difficulties were the second most commonly cited motive; followed by honour killing and mental illness.

In all of these cases masculinity and perceptions of power, sets the background for the crimes. The family role of the father is central to their ideas of masculinity and the murders represent a last ditch attempt to perform a masculine role.

Categorising the Killers: Four Types of Family Annihilator

• Self-righteous: The killer seeks to locate blame for his crimes upon the mother who he holds responsible for the breakdown of the family. This may involve the killer phoning his partner before the murder to explain what he is about to do. For these men, their breadwinner status is central to their idea of the ideal family.
• Disappointed: This killer believes his family has let him down or has acted in ways to undermine or destroy his vision of ideal family life. An example may be disappointment that children are not following the traditional religious or cultural customs of the father. ( eg honour killings)

• Anomic: In these cases the family has become firmly linked in the mind of the killer to the economy. The father sees family as the result of his economic success, allowing him to display his achievements. However, if the father becomes an economic failure, he sees the family as no longer serving this function.
• Paranoid: Those who perceive an external threat to the family. This is often social services or the legal system, which the father fears will side against him and take away the children. Here the murder is motivated by a twisted desire to protect the family.
  
  
• Characteristics of family killers revealed by first classification study | Birmingham City University

He fits this but I do not see another category he fits———————-
It won’t paste. Common in age 30’s, on a Sunday night in August.
————————-
Does anyone see a category he fits?

 

[Jennifer17]

IDK Betsy, as far as NUA & Isalybra, Amanda Thayer say - no plan to separate by SW was known to any of them. ( We only have the salon worker so far iirc) Trinket also says no plan known.

we've had a lot of these Self Righteous category crimes in the UK.

( Typically it's been where the partner wants to move or actually manages to leave. Sometimes it's been a punishment to the ex - to kill the kids and as it says, most kill themselves.
We have had cases of men doing this part too: "This may involve the killer phoning his partner before the murder to explain what he is about to do." And those where just all the children are killed as revenge.
If SW did not want to separate, IDSee how it fits, or how any of them fit this case.

Didn't the VI say that Chris had asked for a separation numerous times?

 

[mickey2942]

I think I get it now...he was "stuck" with little kids, while she went off on "vacation". They were fussy, possibly cranky, after he had been having such a great time single, he just got a bit out of control...and of course, it was ALL HER FAULT! So, the anger built up, and he let go when she got home on her.

 

[nwmouse]

G'Evening Sleuthers! The thread was closed down by the time I came on to post about the defense accusing LE or the prosecutors of leaking information. I'm sure that's probably been covered here today. It would appear to be a sign the defense knows their current theory of defense is going down like the Hindenburg. There are far too many holes in their premise for it to be feasible to any empaneled jury. MOO

I see we have a new VI that's supporting CW. <modsnipped> My understanding is we can either take what is shared as reliable information or we can choose to <modsnipped> weigh their input appropriately. If I'm incorrect, someone please correct me.

<modsnipped> everything I have seen from our VI Trinket has been tactful and helpful.

 

[Mrspratcher]

@Mrspratcher in your experience of criminal law and court experience what do you think of the motion yesterday and it’s reasoning ?

@Shekkiec

I found it to be a very well-written motion. A few of my favorite points:

• Defense alerted the media via the filing of their motion about where the children were found and the probable cause of death (strangulation);
• The Court does not have the authority to order the State to conduct an investigation into leaks; doing so would be burdensome and a waste of taxpayers money;
• The State has ensured that all law enforcement agencies involved - local, state, and federal - are aware that any requests for comment from the media should be directed to the DA’s office; and
• The Court does not have the ability to force the media to disclose its sources.

 

[Charlot123]

Whaaatttt? A book already?....Sheesh...

Is it even legal? After all, we may discuss what we want, but the jury has to be impartial. A book dissecting CW's personality could do a lot of harm.

 

[MsBetsy]

Fingerprints on tanks would be irrelevant if he canfessed to disposal of bodies right ?

Not if he recants.

 

[cottonweaver]

G'Evening Sleuthers! The thread was closed down by the time I came on to post about the defense accusing LE or the prosecutors of leaking information. I'm sure that's probably been covered here today. It would appear to be a sign the defense knows their current theory of defense is going down like the Hindenburg. There are far too many holes in their premise for it to be feasible to any empaneled jury. MOO

I see we have a new VI that's supporting CW. <modsnipped> My understanding is we can either take what is shared as reliable information or we can choose to <modsnipped> weigh their input appropriately. If I'm incorrect, someone please correct me.

Hi Cailleach . Easier just to re-post this for you from the WS owner, from page 1. Yes you can even put a VI on ignore if you don't want to see their contribution and as it says below they have the same options, as with all VIs

Hi Everyone,

We have a verified insider in the Watts case. Please join me in welcoming Trinket78.

As a verified member Trinket78 is not required to provide links for anything Trinket78 posts.

It is up to you whether you believe Trinket78 or not.

You are allowed to question our verified insiders but verified insiders are not required to answer your question.

YOU MUST TREAT A VERIFIED INSIDER WITH RESPECT. If you disagree with any VI, including Trinket78 you cannot become snarky, rude, or sarcastic.

If you don't agree with what a VI is saying then scroll on by. Move on. Problem solved.

In this case, we have a suspect who is telling a much different story than what prosecutors say happened. Both sides are allowed to be discussed as long as you all do so in a respectful manner.

Thank you.

 

[ReckoningDay]

Very well said. Bravo. Being a VI doesn't mean the person is not biased. It also doesn't mean they don't have an agenda. (As you say) I respect a request for anonymity, but not knowing who the person is greatly effects my acceptance of any opinions or information from that person (VI). A family friend would be different from a family member, a personal best friend of one party would be different from a group friend, and so on. Everyone has preferences, prejudices, and motivations regardless of a designation. I also wonder; if this person was so close and knows so much, why aren't they a witness? If they are a witness why are they allowed to post here?

Interesting questions!

 

[Starkville]

If not traditional, it opens the door to a slew of possibilities...

Are you guys thinking about in vitro? That is very expensive...

There have been articles mentioning how Shanann “struggled to conceive” against the odds because of her lupus.

Murdered Colorado mom 'beat all odds' to get pregnant, brother says as records show family's financial woes

IMO the narrative is always extra dramatic.

 

[MyBelle]

They would be irrelevant as he’s admitted to as much. If he recants his confession, as defendants are apt to do, the DA would want that evidence.

How does one recant a confession when the bodies were found exactly where he said?

 

[nwmouse]

Hi Cailleach . Easier just to re-post this for you from the WS owner, from page 1. Yes you can even put a VI on ignore if you don't want to see their contribution and as it says below they have the same options, as with all VIs

Hi Everyone,

We have a verified insider in the Watts case. Please join me in welcoming Trinket78.

As a verified member Trinket78 is not required to provide links for anything Trinket78 posts.

It is up to you whether you believe Trinket78 or not.

You are allowed to question our verified insiders but verified insiders are not required to answer your question.

YOU MUST TREAT A VERIFIED INSIDER WITH RESPECT. If you disagree with any VI, including Trinket78 you cannot become snarky, rude, or sarcastic.

If you don't agree with what a VI is saying then scroll on by. Move on. Problem solved.

In this case, we have a suspect who is telling a much different story than what prosecutors say happened. Both sides are allowed to be discussed as long as you all do so in a respectful manner.

Thank you.

Thanks for re-posting this.

 

[cottonweaver]

Didn't the VI say that Chris had asked for a separation numerous times?

which VI?

 

[nwmouse]

Are you guys thinking about in vitro? That is very expensive...

There have been articles mentioning how Shanann “struggled to conceive” against the odds because of her lupus.

Murdered Colorado mom 'beat all odds' to get pregnant, brother says as records show family's financial woes

IMO the narrative is always extra dramatic.

You are correct about the narrative IMHO!

 

[MyBelle]

@Shekkiec

I found it to be a very well-written motion. A few of my favorite points:

• Defense alerted the media via the filing of their motion about where the children were found and the probable cause of death (strangulation);
• The Court does not have the authority to order the State to conduct an investigation into leaks; doing so would be burdensome and a waste of taxpayers money;
• The State has ensured that all law enforcement agencies involved - local, state, and federal - are aware that any requests for comment from the media should be directed to the DA’s office; and
• The Court does not have the ability to force the media to disclose its sources.

I think the leak they were referring to pertained to the information from the jail and that CW was on suicide watch, what was in his cell, that he was grieving. JMO

 

[Jennifer17]

How does one recant a confession when the bodies were found exactly where he said?

Well he could have a change of heart and say she put the girls bodies there. It makes as much sense as the story he is telling.

 

[MassGuy]

How does one recant a confession when the bodies were found exactly where he said?

I don’t know, but you NEVER take that chance. You can’t go back and recollect evidence, and for that reason, you gather all you can.

 

[Ljc4]

Not to argue with *you*, but... does Shanann strike ANYone here as a person who’d let her husband dictate what she should do?

In the videos, she is clearly in charge of things in that household. And she had a very good reason not to get pregnant again. Even if Chris whined that she wouldn’t give him another child, everyone knew she had lupus and how could anyone hold her reluctance against her?

No, I think she did exactly what she wanted, and she wanted Nico. Like most everything else, the FB posts were a show.

It’s tragic that he never got to come into the world.

No she does not strike me as someone who could be forced into something she didnt want. I was simply sharing the information I found while scrolling through her page. Also, as a woman who had a high risk pregnancy myself I can understand where it would be a difficult decision on whether or not to have another child. For me, it was a constant back and forth in my head between wanting another baby and not wanting to take the risk again. JMO