Found Deceased CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #22

[Trinket78]

I’m really picking up from you that you disliked SW. Is it possible for you to explain why without giving away too much identifying information? I do have an open mind to what you’re saying, I do think you’re being honest, but all I heard from friends of SW before you came to WS was great love, admiration, and appreciation for what a wonderful friend and mother she was.

I wouldn’t say I disliked her. There were times I liked her very much. I knew her in a different capacity. I witnessed things MANY probably have not. That’s why I am able to look at this the way that I do. I want to know as much as everyone else what happened in that house.

 

[The Saint]

Jeremy Lindstrom hosted the birthday party for his little boy several days before the family "vanished".

Family friend talks about seeing Chris Watts and his girls just days before the murders

Wasn't this man's daughter the babysitter who watched the kids on Saturday night while CW went out w/ one of his PAs?

 

[cottonweaver]

This is exactly what I’ve been thinking... we have SO little actual information about this case - most of which comes from the affidavit - and then an awful lot of rumor and conjecture and dubious conclusions.

Believe me, I am not at ALL trying to ignore or minimize or excuse what C.W. has confessed to doing... but as for the rest there are still so many unknowns. I’m quite honestly shocked by some of what I’ve been seeing... people don’t just have an “opinion” about this case - they seem utterly *convinced* of CW’s guilt (beyond his confession) and are unwilling to entertain any information that isn’t in line with the conclusion they’ve already reached.

Regarding the charges - as with everything, take them with a grain of salt. Prosecutors charge the most serious offenses - which will often include multiple lesser included offenses - they are being conservative to cover their bases. Later on it has to be shown that there’s enough evidence to have those charges actually go to trial. The fact that charges are brought initially does not mean those charges will actually get to trial.

And even if those charges get to trial - remember that CW is presumed innocent until proven guilty, and he is entitled to be heard by a jury of his peers. His version of events is at odds with the charges and he has denied killing the girls. It is absolutely imperative that those jurors be willing to look at ALL the evidence and consider this case as specifically instructed. The jury can’t just reach the conclusion that he’s guilty of killing the girls, simply because he put them in the oil tanks - he’s admitted to that, and it’s a separate charge. The State has to prove, beyond a reasonable doubt, that he killed them - and has to prove each and every element of the crime. It is easy to see why it’s important for C.W., as his life is at stake - but it’s also a critical part of our justice system as a whole.

At this stage, I haven’t seen anything that would make me believe he killed them - nor have I seen anything that would make me believe she did, either. The Facebook videos may provide a little insight into their respective personalities and the nature of the relationship, but I don’t see anything that would indicate either of them would be capable of killing the girls...yet one of them did. I also don’t draw much (if anything) from his interviews - I viewed him as being nervous and untruthful, not delighted or gloating. We know he was lying, regardless of which version of events is to be believed - so IMO, his demeanor fits.

I am very interested to hear from people who knew CW and SW. It’s not victim blaming - it’s first hand observations and opinions and I think it’s relevant to helping to understand their personalities and relationship and how it got to this point. That being said, I’m not sure it really helps me figure out who killed the girls.

Just my 2 cents...

Great post and I haven't seen you on the board for many threads Amandaa.
Way back when you first came on I think I recall you saying you had a legal background. Have I got that wrong?

 

[Jennifer17]

DBM double post

Do you think that he should't be?

 

[mtnlites]

I think this is the breaking news! LE has asked for CW’s fingerprints, handprints, palm prints, and DNA. Yesterday, the guest medical examiner on AB was talking about just that. He explained that whoever strangled the children will have left fingerprints, finger impressions, markings, or finger damage on their necks. Examiners are able to size them, according to the size of the injury, and they can include or eliminate possible suspects. I’m thinking there is a strong possibility that Bella and CeCe were left with marks on their necks, and C.W. and S.W. have totally different size hands. They’re going to be able to offer forensic evidence proving which one of them actually killed the children.

When I was 11 years old, I was in class one day when my teacher noticed something on my neck and pulled me into the hallway. There were fingerprint bruises by either ear, the kind that would be made in a strangling. They were fresh. I had no idea how they gor there, I just knew my neck was hurting when I woke up that morning. My mom also taught in that school so they called her over. She placed her hand around my neck and it was obvious that the prints didn't match-they were bigger than her hand. She was a single parent and we didn't have anyone else in our house so the mystery remained unsolved.

I guess my point is that even without DNA, it was pretty easy to match handprints on my neck and I was still alive. I am pretty hopeful that the prints on the girls will be enough to determine who strangled them. I am still leery of the DNA around their necks, though, since it could have gotten there in other ways.

 

[Tippy Lynn]

but he is. I think the prosecuting team were really creative using legislation they did.

I agree. It disturbs me that they would need to get creative. I don't agree with that CO law.

 

[Amandaaa]

Great post and I haven't seen you on the board for many threads Amandaa.
Way back when you first came on I think I recall you saying you had a legal background. Have I got that wrong?

Thanks - yes, good memory - I’m a lawyer

 

[MsBetsy]

He could've killed the second child because she witnessed the first child being killed and could tell. Plus panic.

But yes, it's not known that he did that.

jmo

Right, but at three or four years old, a child does not have a firm concept of death. In my opinion he would have known that all he had to give as an explanation was something like " your sister hurt herself and daddy was trying to help" and he could have easily coached one of them as to what to say. I just don't think he would have seen eliminating the other child as the only alternative. Jmo

 

[MerryB]

@MerryB you are my favorite!

Bless your heart. How sweet!

 

[Jennifer17]

I agree. It disturbs me that they would need to get creative. I don't agree with that CO law.

You don't think that he should be charged with the death of the foetus?

 

[Thepoet]

I know the type: your Mum was married to a "street angel, house devil," and glad to know she is living a healthier life now. Good on you to recognize it, and support her.

Thanks so much. I like that; street angel, house devil". She passed in 1998, but she had a much healthier life after the divorce and the last 5 years of her life in Northern California (close to Oregon) where she had move to, were wonderful for her! Thanks again.

 

[Layla123]

I wouldn’t say I disliked her. There were times I liked her very much. I knew her in a different capacity. I witnessed things MANY probably have not. That’s why I am able to look at this the way that I do. I want to know as much as everyone else what happened in that house.

Are you able to justify CW’s affair in your mind because he was so miserable at home? Did SW really have that tight a hold on him? Do you believe SW would have been so upset upon hearing C.W. wanted a separation she would have strangled the girls? And what about the new baby? Do you know if C.W. really wanted it? Why would he engage in an affair at that time if he did?

 

[cshea99]

No, the original poster of that has said numerous time it was error on her part. The quote is attributed to Mollie Tibbet's prosecution lawyer.

I'm the one that said about Mollie Tibbet and it was the defense lawyer. I was not the original poster. I don't remember who that was.

 

[The Saint]

I did know him pre SW. I think people are silent because if you say anything in the lines of supporting him you get a lot of hate.

Trinket78,
What was What was SW's job in NC when she bought her first house? I think she said that she worked there for 9 years.

Thx

 

[Tippy Lynn]

@Trinket78 - Did you see CW and or SW frequently. If not, did you talk to one or both of them on a regular basis?

 

[Layla123]

When I was 11 years old, I was in class one day when my teacher noticed something on my neck and pulled me into the hallway. There were fingerprint bruises by either ear, the kind that would be made in a strangling. They were fresh. I had no idea how they gor there, I just knew my neck was hurting when I woke up that morning. My mom also taught in that school so they called her over. She placed her hand around my neck and it was obvious that the prints didn't match-they were bigger than her hand. She was a single parent and we didn't have anyone else in our house so the mystery remained unsolved.

I guess my point is that even without DNA, it was pretty easy to match handprints on my neck and I was still alive. I am pretty hopeful that the prints on the girls will be enough to determine who strangled them. I am still leery of the DNA around their necks, though, since it could have gotten there in other ways.

What??? How could this have happened? Very strange!

 

[Nikynoo]

This is exactly what I’ve been thinking... we have SO little actual information about this case - most of which comes from the affidavit - and then an awful lot of rumor and conjecture and dubious conclusions.

Believe me, I am not at ALL trying to ignore or minimize or excuse what C.W. has confessed to doing... but as for the rest there are still so many unknowns. I’m quite honestly shocked by some of what I’ve been seeing... people don’t just have an “opinion” about this case - they seem utterly *convinced* of CW’s guilt (beyond his confession) and are unwilling to entertain any information that isn’t in line with the conclusion they’ve already reached.

Regarding the charges - as with everything, take them with a grain of salt. Prosecutors charge the most serious offenses - which will often include multiple lesser included offenses - they are being conservative to cover their bases. Later on it has to be shown that there’s enough evidence to have those charges actually go to trial. The fact that charges are brought initially does not mean those charges will actually get to trial.

And even if those charges get to trial - remember that CW is presumed innocent until proven guilty, and he is entitled to be heard by a jury of his peers. His version of events is at odds with the charges and he has denied killing the girls. It is absolutely imperative that those jurors be willing to look at ALL the evidence and consider this case as specifically instructed. The jury can’t just reach the conclusion that he’s guilty of killing the girls, simply because he put them in the oil tanks - he’s admitted to that, and it’s a separate charge. The State has to prove, beyond a reasonable doubt, that he killed them - and has to prove each and every element of the crime. It is easy to see why it’s important for C.W., as his life is at stake - but it’s also a critical part of our justice system as a whole.

At this stage, I haven’t seen anything that would make me believe he killed them - nor have I seen anything that would make me believe she did, either. The Facebook videos may provide a little insight into their respective personalities and the nature of the relationship, but I don’t see anything that would indicate either of them would be capable of killing the girls...yet one of them did. I also don’t draw much (if anything) from his interviews - I viewed him as being nervous and untruthful, not delighted or gloating. We know he was lying, regardless of which version of events is to be believed - so IMO, his demeanor fits.

I am very interested to hear from people who knew CW and SW. It’s not victim blaming - it’s first hand observations and opinions and I think it’s relevant to helping to understand their personalities and relationship and how it got to this point. That being said, I’m not sure it really helps me figure out who killed the girls.

Just my 2 cents...

Fantastic post! My thoughts too!

 

[Ilovemy3boys]

Right, but at three or four years old, a child does not have a firm concept of death. In my opinion he would have known that all he had to give as an explanation was something like " your sister hurt herself and daddy was trying to help" and he could have easily coached one of them as to what to say. I just don't think he would have seen eliminating the other child as the only alternative. Jmo

I wonder if the girls saw him doing something and didn’t want them to tell their mom when she came home. JMO

 

[Thepoet]

When I was 11 years old, I was in class one day when my teacher noticed something on my neck and pulled me into the hallway. There were fingerprint bruises by either ear, the kind that would be made in a strangling. They were fresh. I had no idea how they gor there, I just knew my neck was hurting when I woke up that morning. My mom also taught in that school so they called her over. She placed her hand around my neck and it was obvious that the prints didn't match-they were bigger than her hand. She was a single parent and we didn't have anyone else in our house so the mystery remained unsolved.

I guess my point is that even without DNA, it was pretty easy to match handprints on my neck and I was still alive. I am pretty hopeful that the prints on the girls will be enough to determine who strangled them. I am still leery of the DNA around their necks, though, since it could have gotten there in other ways.

OMG! That's spooky!

 

[Inthedetails]

Right, but at three or four years old, a child does not have a firm concept of death. In my opinion he would have known that all he had to give as an explanation was something like " your sister hurt herself and daddy was trying to help" and he could have easily coached one of them as to what to say. I just don't think he would have seen eliminating the other child as the only alternative. Jmo

I hear ya. But it's also hard to believe he killed everyone for any other reason as well, especially after getting to know him on the videos.

I'm envisioning a more "passive" reason (covering up and hiding) rather than an "active" reason (planned in advance to purposely eliminate). But I can definitely see both scenarios.

I am keeping an open mind (without my brains falling out in the process).

jmo