Found Deceased CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #41

[cailleach]

How soon would any paramedics arrive?

Within minutes, in the single digits. There are 3 fire departments in that area so they were undoubtedly close to one of them.

 

[human]

I think he would have waited until it was dark and no one could see who was driving, then abandon her car. He could have gotten back home by using another car/motorcycle/bicycle he had in place and then go back inside through the backyard. The neighbor's camera would actually have backed up his story about leaving for work and coming home at the normal times in his truck. MOO

I know zero about the area. Is there a good spot where he could have dropped the car where it would not be found for awhile?

Where would he get a spare care or motorcycle to do the car drop off?

With all the cameras and GPS , it seems difficult to come up with a good plan. His was pretty good except for the part about how SW and the kids got out of the house without being seen.

 

[cailleach]

<modsnipped reference to removed post>

I realize that we must operate under the assumption that we are all free and equal and receive equal treatment in kind , but it doesn’t always work that way.

IMO the Chris Watts’ fan clubs are getting national attention not only due to AB but because she can actually cite them. What is the name for women (or men) who get on that bandwagon? Or is it a problem that must remain “the problem with no name”....as Betty Friedan coined in “The Feminine Mystique” 60 + years ago?

This case makes me think that the women’s movement never even happened when it comes to victim blaming and the reasons it is permissible, and the reasons that CW continues to be given the benefit of the doubt and treated gingerly. There may be a remote possibility that his claim that his wife killed their children is accurate , but it is also his last chance at not going away forever, and seems IMO like a last ditch effort to save himself, while at the same time throwing his victim under the bus. It’s the only way he can come off as not seeming like a total heel, though nothing in his story adds up. Yet women are writing him love letters on top of everything?

Innocent until proven guilty even when his dishonest pleas for his family’s return to the press and the way he had disposed of them is paramount. His actions and words have given the most neutral bystanders chills. What could possibly be more of a stretch after his plea for them to “come home” than his “I am reading the Bible” shenanigans.

IMO there will be more pro-CW factions to come and I think that the defense is going to have a following-and we won’t be able to coin what that even is. It seems like another “problem with no name” to me-MOO.

I hear you, sistah!

 

[cailleach]

Within minutes, in the single digits. There are 3 fire departments in that area so they were undoubtedly close to one of them.

ETA: It apears it was 3 minutes away...

How would he have got the car out of the garage? Wear some kind of disguise so he looked like her?

Maybe he was really after the male A/P's wigs?

 

[k-mac]

What woman accused of these crimes would be receiving love letters in jail after likely killing her kids?

We know of women (Susan Smith immediately comes to mind) who did the unthinkable and were charged with the crime they committed and lied about it. They were not given the same reception after being charged.

What makes CW more sympathetic to some people? Because he was still married and he could place his wife at the scene and in the 3.5 short hours she was home, she COULD have potentially by virtue of her presence, killed her kids when she gave no signs of being capable of it?

If anything, in everything I’ve seen from her videos she was adamant to protect them at all costs, even though I know this is subjective and being used against her too. I just don’t see it.

This case IMO, excludes common sense when the man charged is vehemently defended, when what HAS been established is undeniably criminal (dumping kids in oil tanks alone), and the evidence that has been irrefutably presented is dismissed only because CW changed his story yet again.

If we must try to give CW the benefit of the doubt because HE SAYS SO - I can only wonder what makes people so amenable to his version of events over how and why he did this (which I feel we will never discover because we can’t trust him and he is the last man standing ). His version in the affidavit hardly seems like an honest confession IMO and it came a day late and tons of dollars short!

Yet he continues to be lent credence and in some circles- even adoration. I don’t think that we can refute that CW has a following which is gaining momentum when it is reported, (by AB) even on a slow day.

i agree with your point it is disgusting the fans they get.
but I have to call it unreasonable to say it doesn't happen with women.

lets start with
darlie routier
Jodi arias
casey Anthony
Darlene gentry
molly martens.

that's just off my head....these are cases I have seen personally the fans are just ridiculous. more so then men murderers fans.

think it comes down to.....people have a hard time accepting "beautiful" people are sometimes pieces of crap.
nothing to do with their sex.
I find it in equal measure.

just my opinion though.

 

[Harmony 2]

Be prepared because the thread will be closing in a few minutes.

 

[DexterMorgan]

I think he would have waited until it was dark and no one could see who was driving, then abandon her car. He could have gotten back home by using another car/motorcycle/bicycle he had in place and then go back inside through the backyard. The neighbor's camera would actually have backed up his story about leaving for work and coming home at the normal times in his truck. MOO

He definitely forgot about that camera facing his house.

 

[molly1255]

Yes he gives himself WAY too much credit: My wife was so mad I wanted to separate she killed the kids! Yeah right. Nice try.

I agree. I do think his story (JMO) is incredibly misogynistic and I also think it is very telling about the way he views women. And that is:

Women are desperate and weak creatures who possess an inherent flaw that makes them seek bitter revenge upon a man who rejects them.

JMO

 

[Charlot123]

<modsnipped refence to removed post>
I realize that we must operate under the assumption that we are all free and equal and receive equal treatment in kind , but it doesn’t always work that way.

IMO the Chris Watts’ fan clubs are getting national attention not only due to AB but because she can actually cite them. What is the name for women (or men) who get on that bandwagon? Or is it a problem that must remain “the problem with no name”....as Betty Friedan coined in “The Feminine Mystique” 60 + years ago?

This case makes me think that the women’s movement never even happened when it comes to victim blaming and the reasons it is permissible, and the reasons that CW continues to be given the benefit of the doubt and treated gingerly. There may be a remote possibility that his claim that his wife killed their children is accurate , but it is also his last chance at not going away forever, and seems IMO like a last ditch effort to save himself, while at the same time throwing his victim under the bus. It’s the only way he can come off as not seeming like a total heel, though nothing in his story adds up. Yet women are writing him love letters on top of everything?

Innocent until proven guilty even when his dishonest pleas for his family’s return to the press and the way he had disposed of them is paramount. His actions and words have given the most neutral bystanders chills. What could possibly be more of a stretch after his plea for them to “come home” than his “I am reading the Bible” shenanigans.

IMO there will be more pro-CW factions to come and I think that the defense is going to have a following-and we won’t be able to coin what that even is. It seems like another “problem with no name” to me-MOO.

It is an interesting topic. I think it would be interesting to share opinions, as some of the questions you raise I have been thinking about, and some never occurred to me.

I think the true bias may be socioeconomical, and it is proportionate to the time the mass media covers any specific crime.

I tried to remember a case of a crime of similar magnitude/type in a different race group that ever received excessive coverage, and only O.J. Simpson came to mind. (But then, I don't trace all true crimes).

However, it is my belief that today, family annihilation in any race group would have been covered pretty well if it happened in an affluent neighborhood. The opposite statement, sadly, is true as well.

The situation of SW and CW is somewhat ironic as they were not really affluent for Colorado, but projected the impression of a well-off "typical American" good-looking family, and this projection stays in the mind. I have already mentioned that we are becoming more and more visual, and SW used visual media to the extreme. So even knowing the W's income, I still subconsciously view them as affluent because of their posts.

And because we turned so visual, I believe that CW would have not gotten 1/10 of his fan base if the murders happened a year ago, before his significant weight loss.

On the other hand, speaking of women, there was a social group that, as I believe, suffered extensively, because of societal prejudices. I am thinking of the case of Gary Ridgeway ("The Green River Killer").

His victims were of different ethnic groups, proportionate to the population of WA state, but they were female, young, and mostly, runaways from unhappy homes who turned to prostitution. We are speaking about women aged 15-24, so, really, disenfranchised, but with much hope for them in future life given their age. There were multiple reasons why Gary was not caught in a timely fashion (e.g., he had long periods of inactivity during his marriages). However, I believe that if Ridgeway's victims were from more stable homes, experienced no societal discrimination due to their profession or simply were unafraid to complain to the police, the list of his victims would have been much smaller. As it stands, he is now serving life without parole, and from time to time remembers new names; so far he has confessed to 71 killing.

The sheer number of Ridgeway's victims made me very supportive of the rights of this group of women and prompted me to view many problems of today's society from "harm reduction" rather than "fighting the problem" position.

 

[MassGuy]

i agree with your point it is disgusting the fans they get.
but I have to call it unreasonable to say it doesn't happen with women.

lets start with
darlie routier
Jodi arias
casey Anthony
Darlene gentry
molly martens.

that's just off my head....these are cases I have seen personally the fans are just ridiculous. more so then men murderers fans.

think it comes down to.....people have a hard time accepting "beautiful" people are sometimes pieces of crap.
nothing to do with their sex.
I find it in equal measure.

just my opinion though.

Although men absolutely do partake in the same behavior, on the whole, it seems to happen far more often the other way.

 

[Harmony 2]

Good night, closing the thread, see you in the morning.

 

[Harmony 2]

Good morning!

link

 

[Tippy Lynn]

Yes, and I have posted several times, that even people who believe that he killed them all and dumped his children in crude oil, cannot go to the fact that he may have had a homosexual affair. Like that is way too far.
A man that can dump his dead children in crude oil, to me, nothing is too far, including having homosexual affairs.

Does it matter the gender of the AP? An affair is an affair.
jmo

 

[JudgeJudi]

Greetings from the land down under

 

[NuttMegg]

I can't believe he dug a grave that quickly. That dirt is not soft at all.

I haven't seen the exact site, but I was thinking if he just used the berm around the tank pad it would be relatively soft. Relative to hard-packed, never-dug-up dirt.

 

[riolove77]

Not successful and not a paper cut, but …

Accused sex killer Col. Russell Williams attempts jailhouse suicide

"Using a cardboard toilet roll stuffed with more foil and cardboard, Col. Williams stuffed it down his throat in an apparent bid to suffocate himself, sources said."

How crafty.

 

[Mo Thuairim]

Three new court motions at the link
Colorado Judicial Branch

CW leaving the decision about sealing autopsy reports to the court's discretion

Edit: Three new docs I should say, not all new motions.

 

[riolove77]

This interests me in terms of the eventual trial. Not long ago it was agreed that the Kara Kopetsky/Jessica Runions jury will come from suburban St Louis as opposed to the greater Kansas City area - so other side of the state. I don’t think this helps their murderer at all, but okay. If CW goes to trial, can they get the jury from the area or do they go elsewhere?

Sorry if already answered, but yeah, the defense is almost certain to file a motion for a change of venue, arguing that they can't get a fair jury there. SP's attorneys had the trial moved all the way to Redwood City.

 

[human]

NASCAR cars are incredibly technical. He went to the school. Whether he was a brilliant student there or not does not matter. He knows there are all kinds of electronics in cars and they have been a part of cars for a long time.

It seems impossible to believe that he did not know the capabilities of his work vehicle.

What would be his work day? Does he start at an office to start his day? Does he report to an office at the end of the day?

Would he not know that his movements could be tracked?

Is he so clueless to think that the spouse is not always investigated? Is it only the sheet that gave him away?

Would the drone have shown the grave had the sheet not been found? Did he try to blend the grave in with the surrounding area? It would be too soon for the soil to start sinking.

 

[Amandaaa]

Regarding the autopsy report debate:

This is what I *anticipate* happening (but of course I could be wrong)

FOIC has filed a motion disputing the prosecutor’s initial motion to seal the reports.

The motion states that the prosecutor was not the proper party to file, that the criminal action was not the proper forum for the request, and claims the court does not have jurisdiction. Before any determination is made regarding the appropriateness of the request to seal, the issues raised in the FOIC motion have to be addressed.

Because the FOIC motion was made within the criminal proceeding, I would anticipate the parties being given the opportunity to respond to the FOIC motion (regarding the issue of whether the prosecutor’s initial motion was properly made in the criminal proceeding, and whether the court has jurisdiction - *not* on the issue of whether the sealing itself is appropriate).

The court would then have to arrive at a decision as to where the motion is properly filed, and by whom. IMO, the parties could instead all agree (not sure they would, though) to stipulate that the criminal proceeding is not the proper place - rather than litigate that issue - in which case the custodian would refile the petition/motion to seal the records according to the usual statutory CORA process (separately from the criminal proceeding, and upon notice to anyone who has requested those records and who may wish to be heard on the matter).

After the petition is filed, the court would then schedule a hearing regarding the propriety of the custodian’s request to seal. I do not know for sure, but would *assume* that the CORA hearing would be public (or at least not closed), since transparency is the main issue involved in the first place - and the interested parties will have the opportunity to weigh in. Of course, the court will likely have to review certain things (autopsy report included) in camera in order to arrive at a decision on the matter.

Just my best guess at how it would play out... will be very interested to see how it goes.