Found Deceased CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *CW GUILTY* #45

[gitana1]

I think so too, but I'm surprised none have shown up yet. Is it money and/or this case is so ugly?

Probably money. They're going to want something. I've felt his family are probably refinancing and/or cashing in retirement accounts to find a private counsel.

 

[JDough]

I wholeheartedly agree, Tippy. I want the truth known as well, whatever that may be.
I’m baffled by the inability of some to look at all possibilities in this case.
I know some will argue they have all the information they need, or list the reasons why what they believe is “right,” but the fact is, there is a lot we still do not know.

With all due respect, MerryB- if you review some of the first few threads in this forum, you will find MANY who have considered all possibilities in this case prior to coming to a conclusion. To say otherwise is insulting to those of us who did. I'm baffled that you could think such a thing.

I have asked over and over again what evidence (or lack of) one may have for being undecided. The majority of my questions have gone unanswered. Still, I have proclaimed to anyone with a different opinion that I would want a juror (if ever charged with a crime), who could remain unbiased. I have stated on more than one occasion that I have an interest in understanding another's point of view. Please don't call me incapable of looking at all possibilities. It is unwarranted and offensive.

 

[Loveallmyhorsesdogsandcats]

I think so too, but I'm surprised none have shown up yet. Is it money and/or this case is so ugly?

I have read on other sites that the public defenders in a Colorado are excellent.

 

[PrimeSuspect]

I'm willing to discuss all angles as long as they are within TOS.

JMO

Respectfully, I have better things to do with my time than to memorize an affidavit. Especially when it's available to reference anytime I choose to do so.

Again, it's my opinion that that statement doesn't prove or disprove anything.

JMO

It's difficult to have a discussion if one isn't prepared to memorise or reference the material they are arguing before shooting down another person's opinion or the facts provided. I've made mistakes, it happens. I don't spend as much time on here as I'd like but I hope I'm not wasting anyone's time telling them they're wrong and leaving it like that.
I, and many others, choose to engage in conversation about this case with other posters who hold differing opinions, it'd be far easier to ignore, it'd be nice to be met half way though.

 

[JDough]

Another interesting point. The lady that claimed he was not interacting and has that picture to prove it.

He was on his cell.

imo

We are allowing discussion of the defense put forward by CW's legal team

Quite interesting, indeed. And rude, IMO. Why would a man who traveled all the way from CO to NC ignore his children once he got there? Maybe he should not have gone if he wanted to be separated from them so much?

 

[PrimeSuspect]

I am not sure why the statement keeps being made, that' it doesn't prove or disprove anything. '

Her face turning blue is an important fact. It is very relevant info. Why is it being shrugged off?

This is the frustrating part for me too! It appears even CW's own words in his affidavit aren't considered true so his account isn't open for scrutiny because it doesn't prove anything!
Boy, I've got to learn to be more patient, not one of my strong points.

 

[PrimeSuspect]

Sometimes I have to step back and take a deep breath and remind myself that the important thing is reality. Reality is; Chris Watts was arrested and charged with numerous offenses, including five counts of First Degree Murder. The DA is very serious about this prosecution and he has a great reputation. I have to believe, based on what I know and have read, that the prosecution has a great deal more evidence than we are aware of or even know exists. Reality is; we do know of considerable evidence against Chris Watts. Reality is; we have CW's admissions to lying and his confession to killing two human beings. His own words and actions. The reality is; CW will either take his own life, cop a plea, or go to trial. One of the three will have to happen. I do not wish the first on him, God forbid. The second most likely means LWOP. And his odds are very poor in the third. If the DA decides on the Death Penalty and CW is convicted, he could end up on Death Row hoping politics don't change and executions don't begin again. Everything changes, especially politics. Reality is; CW's future looks very bleak indeed. Oh, and his AP will probably find someone else.

Wise words, great post!

 

[mtnlites]

Yes, CW said he saw Bella turning blue which means she was still possibly able to be saved and his lack of calling 911 is puzzling to say the least. They had panic buttons on their alarm system that went straight to 911, all he had to do was push it.

Yes. And those of us who have lost children have shared a plethora of stories about how we continued to provide CPR and other life-saving measures until the paramedics showed up-even when it was obvious that our children were beyond saving. I belong to a VERY large online childloss support group, and I act as a moderator for several Compassionate Friends meetings, and I have yet to meet a parent who didn't go above and beyond life-saving measures when it came to resuscitating their children. If there truly was evidence that she had killed the other two (hand prints or DNA around their necks) or or supporting evidence that she was angry about an AP or impending separation (letters, a suicide note, and other things that have been insinuated here) then there is no reason why he shouldn't have called 911 or hit his panic button.

I can't imagine a single child loss parent I have ever met who would've looked at the kids, figured they were beyond saving, and loaded them up in the car to dispose of their bodies. I can't even think of one who would have tried CPR for some time and THEN decided that they were beyond saving. CW was not a paramedic, did not have medical training. For him to decide, within just a matter of minutes, that neither child was beyond saving makes no sense to me.

 

[MassGuy]

Yes. And those of us who have lost children have shared a plethora of stories about how we continued to provide CPR and other life-saving measures until the paramedics showed up-even when it was obvious that our children were beyond saving. I belong to a VERY large online childloss support group, and I act as a moderator for several Compassionate Friends meetings, and I have yet to meet a parent who didn't go above and beyond life-saving measures when it came to resuscitating their children. If there truly was evidence that she had killed the other two (hand prints or DNA around their necks) or or supporting evidence that she was angry about an AP or impending separation (letters, a suicide note, and other things that have been insinuated here) then there is no reason why he shouldn't have called 911 or hit his panic button.

I can't imagine a single child loss parent I have ever met who would've looked at the kids, figured they were beyond saving, and loaded them up in the car to dispose of their bodies. I can't even think of one who would have tried CPR for some time and THEN decided that they were beyond saving. CW was not a paramedic, did not have medical training. For him to decide, within just a matter of minutes, that neither child was beyond saving makes no sense to me.

Yes. His actions don’t make sense, let alone make sense to any parent.

One does not “panic” and pronounce his kids dead.

One does not “panic” then cram the bodies of his children into tanks filled with oil.

This is not normal human behavior under any circumstances.

 

[Tortoise]

This is the frustrating part for me too! It appears even CW's own words in his affidavit aren't considered true so his account isn't open for scrutiny because it doesn't prove anything!
Boy, I've got to learn to be more patient, not one of my strong points.

That's what I don't get.

 

[mtnlites]

With all due respect, MerryB- if you review some of the first few threads in this forum, you will find MANY who have considered all possibilities in this case prior to coming to a conclusion. To say otherwise is insulting to those of us who did. I'm baffled that you could think such a thing.

I have asked over and over again what evidence (or lack of) one may have for being undecided. The majority of my questions have gone unanswered. Still, I have proclaimed to anyone with a different opinion that I would want a juror (if ever charged with a crime), who could remain unbiased. I have stated on more than one occasion that I have an interest in understanding another's point of view. Please don't call me incapable of looking at all possibilities. It is unwarranted and offensive.

BBM

I, too, am offended at the idea of being single-minded and not looking at all possibilities just because I believe that CW is solely responsible. I reached that conclusion because I have kept up with all the articles, evidence, and information-not because I ignore it or refuse to read it. I have arrived at my opinion thanks to research, televised interviews, circumstantial evidence, MSM articles, comparison of other similar cases, a former crisis intervention specialist, and as a child loss parent who was presented with a situation similar to what CW alleges.

 

[MsBetsy]

This is the frustrating part for me too! It appears even CW's own words in his affidavit aren't considered true so his account isn't open for scrutiny because it doesn't prove anything!
Boy, I've got to learn to be more patient, not one of my strong points.

Maybe during questioning, LE asked him how he could tell she was dead and he said because she looked blue. They may have asked why he didn't help her, or check on her, and he backed himself onto a corner. I think it will be very difficult to prove that you can see skin tone through a baby monitor. And that's just one of many things about it that does not make sense. Jmo

 

[katydid23]

mtnlites posted:

I can't imagine a single child loss parent I have ever met who would've looked at the kids, figured they were beyond saving, and loaded them up in the car to dispose of their bodies. I can't even think of one who would have tried CPR for some time and THEN decided that they were beyond saving. CW was not a paramedic, did not have medical training. For him to decide, within just a matter of minutes, that neither child was beyond saving makes no sense to me.

The only way it makes sense is if he didn't want to save them.


According to him, in his own confession, when he got involved in this incident, only his eldest child was deceased. And she still might have been able to be revived.

But once he entered the picture, the remaining 3 family members were dead too. Way to go, that's the Father of the Year award right there.

 

[Loveallmyhorsesdogsandcats]

Yes. And those of us who have lost children have shared a plethora of stories about how we continued to provide CPR and other life-saving measures until the paramedics showed up-even when it was obvious that our children were beyond saving. I belong to a VERY large online childloss support group, and I act as a moderator for several Compassionate Friends meetings, and I have yet to meet a parent who didn't go above and beyond life-saving measures when it came to resuscitating their children. If there truly was evidence that she had killed the other two (hand prints or DNA around their necks) or or supporting evidence that she was angry about an AP or impending separation (letters, a suicide note, and other things that have been insinuated here) then there is no reason why he shouldn't have called 911 or hit his panic button.

I can't imagine a single child loss parent I have ever met who would've looked at the kids, figured they were beyond saving, and loaded them up in the car to dispose of their bodies. I can't even think of one who would have tried CPR for some time and THEN decided that they were beyond saving. CW was not a paramedic, did not have medical training. For him to decide, within just a matter of minutes, that neither child was beyond saving makes no sense to me.

I am so,sorry for your loss. I agree, I don’t know of a single incident where a parent did not exhaust all means possible to save their child, even if the reality was they were gone.

 

[MassGuy]

BBM

I, too, am offended at the idea of being single-minded and not looking at all possibilities just because I believe that CW is solely responsible. I reached that conclusion because I have kept up with all the articles, evidence, and information-not because I ignore it or refuse to read it. I have arrived at my opinion thanks to research, televised interviews, circumstantial evidence, MSM articles, comparison of other similar cases, a former crisis intervention specialist, and as a child loss parent who was presented with a situation similar to what CW alleges.

Exactly. I have read hundreds of true crime books. I have read thousands of news articles and research papers. I have followed countless cases on television.

I think logically, and follow the evidence.

The facts here lead me to one conclusion, that CW killed his family.

 

[Tigerlily75]

With all due respect, MerryB- if you review some of the first few threads in this forum, you will find MANY who have considered all possibilities in this case prior to coming to a conclusion. To say otherwise is insulting to those of us who did. I'm baffled that you could think such a thing.

I have asked over and over again what evidence (or lack of) one may have for being undecided. The majority of my questions have gone unanswered. Still, I have proclaimed to anyone with a different opinion that I would want a juror (if ever charged with a crime), who could remain unbiased. I have stated on more than one occasion that I have an interest in understanding another's point of view. Please don't call me incapable of looking at all possibilities. It is unwarranted and offensive.

Well said. I consider and follow the evidence. We can only work with what we know, and what we know leads me to CW. Right now there isn't a shred of evidence that SW killed her children. Not a single thing. So what am I supposed to consider? Give me the evidence and I'll follow it.

 

[MsBetsy]

Quite interesting, indeed. And rude, IMO. Why would a man who traveled all the way from CO to NC ignore his children once he got there? Maybe he should not have gone if he wanted to be separated from them so much?

I think he had already succeeded in distancing himself from both Shanann and the kids by then. She also said as much to her friend NAU, when she said he was not acting like himself and not being attentive, touching or hugging her. Jmo

 

[JDough]

Ok maybe they will . I don’t believe every bad thing I have read about CW. I don’t SW having unconfirmed rumors circulated like he did. To me that helps nothing. I don’t believe every bad thing about her, we have no proof of HIV or steroids. Yet it is discussed regularly. That’s fine. It’s a theory. But if the possibility of her baby being not his or her faking lupus is discussed it is bashing right?

For me, personally, it would be victim bashing. But I'm not a moderator or the owner of this site. SW is the murdered victim. CW is still alive and well. He has admitted to strangling his wife. The majority of the forum participants are discussing the direct/indirect evidence against the person charged with the crimes. And, some theorizing as to the possibility of reasons he could have done this. Most of these theories are based on direct/circumstantial evidence, VI statements, MSM interviews and MSM articles. Not social media rumors.

I have not participated in any of the HIV or steroid theories. I have not been presented with a valid source that would allow me to consider it. I will, however, say that it is a known fact that a person can contract any form of an STD when having unprotected sex with multiple partners. CW admitted he had multiple partners: his wife, and an AP. I don't know if he had more than this. I don't feel as though I have valid proof there was more than one AP. I believe it will be addressed during trial, then we will all know.

I would think if SW did not have lupus (or any other health issue), CW would have known this. He went to medical appointments with her. He wore a lupus bracelet in support of his wife. There has been nothing to refute this (other than social media rumors). Maybe he even posted information about this on his own social media accounts before he deleted them?

If their unborn son, Nico, were not CW's (or he even suspected this), I doubt be would have sent text messages indicating he "loved the little peanut already". The mere thought of this is nothing more than a social media rumor.

IMO, these theories are invalid as an open possibility for CW's claims. I've stated the reasons why I believe this. But I am certainly open to hearing another theory that can be backed up with some evidence- and is nothing more than a social media rumor.

 

[tmar]

Nick van der Leek‏ @HiRezLife Nov 4

More Watts Family Photos You Probably Haven't Seen https://crimerocket.com/2018/11/04/more-watts-family-photos-you-probably-havent-seen/ … #ChrisWatts

 

[mtnlites]

Well said. I consider and follow the evidence. We can only work with what we know, and what we know leads me to CW. Right now there isn't a shred of evidence that SW killed her children. Not a single thing. So what am I supposed to consider? Give me the evidence and I'll follow it.

The only "evidence" to support the theory that SW killed her kids is either in the form of speculation ("well maybe..."), CW's words (words spoken after the kids' bodies were found and he was put on the spot and looking at being charged with murder), and speculation about SW's personality that was gained from a handful of subjective, cherry-picked videos from her social media pages.