Found Deceased CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *CW GUILTY* #45

[Tippy Lynn]

Is that what that legal mumbo jumbo meant? I've never followed a case, so have no clue what some of that stuff means.

I'm reading it as there will still be traditional print-media coverage, but no camera's or video.

JMO

 

[Tortoise]

I'm reading it as there will still be traditional print-media coverage, but no camera's or video.

JMO

That's correct. Hopefully court (media) tweeters will be allowed to give us some live updates.

 

[PrimeSuspect]

It's not a question of liking or not liking your opinion, it's trying to understand how you came to that opinion.

He didn't say he saw Bella being strangled. He said he saw Cece being strangled and Bella sprawled out and blue. Bella wouldn't be blue unless he had seen her during the act of strangulation. That is the glaring anomaly in his story.

Jinx, I replied before I got to your post. I agree that CW is speaking from experience, not about a vision he caught a glimpse of on a baby monitor.

 

[Tippy Lynn]

Per CW's affidavit, he saw, via the baby monitor, BELLA was BLUE and 'sprawled' out on the bed. He then saw, via the baby monitor, SW actively strangling CeCe.

Besides the the mix up of the names, you're mistaken and CW NEVER said he saw CeCe turn blue while SW was strangling her.

Tortoise is making a very good point that CW MUST have seen their faces turning blue while he strangled them, including SW! The defense have a hard task to prove what CW could see via a tiny baby monitor screen which is crucial to his account, the vision he saw made him explode into a murderous rage!
He had to have KNOWN both his children were dead, and ALL HOPE was lost for him to take the action he did, this is CW's story!

If one is going to stand by CW, one should know his affidavit off by heart, imo. Here it is again -

https://mediaassets.thedenverchannel.com/document/2018/08/20/arrest affidavit chris watts_95256653_ver1.0.pdf?_ga=2.126358029.1676806.1541460669-987309381.1540869920

Respectfully, I have better things to do with my time than to memorize an affidavit. Especially when it's available to reference anytime I choose to do so.

Again, it's my opinion that that statement doesn't prove or disprove anything.

JMO

 

[molly1255]

The blatant and obvious distaste that you have for a dead pregnant woman is just... I can't even.

HE was done? Done with HER STUFF?!?! What stuff, like how she happily cared for his needs, their children and managed their home day in and day out, despite being in pain on a constant basis while maintaining a positive outlook on life and helping others? How she was rapidly moving up in her company making her own money, earned her own leased vehicle and multiple fun vacations for the two of them?

If anyone was going to be done with someone's stuff, it would be Shanann being done with his fake facade, his lying and cheating behind her back while also willingly getting her pregnant again.

If he was leaving, why didn't he? Maybe 4 souls would still be with us if he'd decided to just leave and deal with the hassles of a divorce and the reduced image of being a divorced dad of 3. MOO

Oh, and IMO, nothing "went nuts". I think it was all pretty calm, except for the desperate gasps for air and frantic thrashing and scratching at their own throats while they were slowly being strangled to death. Makes me sick.

I agree with everything you've stated.

 

[PrimeSuspect]

To be fair, we dont know how long he waited (if at all) for the monitor to toggle to CeCe's room.

But CW says he could see Bella was blue before he saw SW strangling CeCe. I mean, a normal human being takes stock of what they've just seen. CW didn't see blood strewn around the bed, he didn't see a knife protruding from a body, he saw for a split second, a child, blue, then, he saw SW actively strangling CeCe so he rushed to the bedroom to kill SW. He didn't rush to save CeCe's life, he ran into the room to kill SW in retaliation for killing his children. It has to read and be interpreted this way for him to get away with his actions. jmo

 

[Loveallmyhorsesdogsandcats]

Correct, unless some new evidence is shown that somehow brings Thrive into the case. The Thrive angle was talked to death in the first 40 plus threads for this case. I highly recommend that people review the previous threads before posting in a new thread. It's all been said multiple times already. There's nothing about Thrive that hasn't already been discussed.

Thank you!

 

[Deleted member 182072]

I may be getting some details wrong - but at this point it seems as if he was the (for the last several years) the consistent earner - not dependant on how may people purchased some patches of whatever.

He had a 40 hour a week position earning something like a consistent 65K.

At this point in the investigation we have no idea how much she was making selling patches of something.

What we know from the videos is she was purchasing a ton of the stuff - mailing free samples all over and paying to fly two people to wherever

this is only my notions about this - but I know going out of town always costed me money

moo

I believe CW was making around 75K by 2018 including bonus, but not including overtime since he would have been hourly.
Median compensation Anadarko operator:
Anadarko Petroleum Operator Salaries | Paysa

Since SW was at the 80K VIP monthly sales level with 130K sales in April according to a VI, she would have been making good money if you look at their commission structure. As for the trips, airfare reimbursements were included for the 40K VIP levels and up. And they were also lucky enough to live in the Denver area, home of Frontier Airlines, offering some of the cheapest flights you'll find anywhere.

But I think it's much more relevant to discuss how much money CW must have been spending on his APs. It appears he may have spent well over a thousand on TB alone. He probably spent tens of thousand on all his APs over the years, putting his family deeper and deeper into debt, while SW was buying secondhand toys for the girls, getting haircuts at home, coloring her own hair, buying inexpensive looking clothes for herself, etc.

One can only wonder how many overtime hours he could have racked up at work instead of spending so much time on his hookups. Being such a great mechanic, he could have even bought cars, fixed them and sold them for a profit. His family would have been prospering if he had only been a responsible husband and father. MOO

Man who claims affair with accused family killer Chris Watts says Colorado dad gave him money, claimed pregnant wife Shanann Watts was ‘abusive’: EXCLUSIVE

But Bolte did say that Chris had given him some money while they were together. He said that Chris gave him cash on a few occasions when he was in need of financial help, and that Chris offered the money while also stating that he was struggling financially himself. Bolte said that in addition to the cash gifts, which he believes totaled around $1,000, Chris Watts bought him expensive skin care products at Sephora. Bolte said Watts paid in cash.​

 

[mrjitty]

Respectfully, I have better things to do with my time than to memorize an affidavit. Especially when it's available to reference anytime I choose to do so.

Again, it's my opinion that that statement doesn't prove or disprove anything.

JMO

it's important because this is his best version of what happened and it can be admitted into evidence.

So if the prosecution can poke a big hole in what he stated, and he doesn't make himself available via testimony, then you might as well flush the statement down the toilet as unreliable.

Once that happens, there is no evidence before the Court that SW killed the kids (unless the defence has something else)

 

[gitana1]

I agree. How can he possibly plead to lesser charges?

The issues, as I see them, are, he's already admitted to murdering SW, and he said it was in a rage and JMO, he's said that because he wants to try to avoid first degree murder, after deliberation for SW's murder.

It's already known that Nico died because SW was murdered, and that CW dumped the bodies.

That leaves the matter of the murders of Celeste and Bella. I don't see any way he's going to be allowed to try to walk away from their murders.

If he admits he murdered the girls, he then has the problem in that this means he killed two victims under the age of 12, and he was in a position of trust, and at least two of his victims were murdered in the first degree, after deliberation, because if he killed a first victim in a rage, the others murders were committed after deliberation.

I don't feel sorry for him at all, I feel very sorry for his victims. He's created an incredible mess for himself, IMO.

I think the best he could do is pray for a plea deal, admit to all and accept LWOP in an attempt to avoid the death penalty, which is on the table, as it hasn't been announced yet whether it will be used in this case, but if it is, and he goes to trial, that's what he will face.

JMO.

Yes. As I said last thread, I absolutely believe the state would agree to a plea of guilty to first degree murder for all three and LWOP. I just don't think, based on the psyche of family annihilators who initially lie about the guilt and the reasons why they kill, that he would accept it. Especially if he's been talking to his family who I think would never accept that he killed his daughters.

I wish he would. It would spare a lot of people a lot of grief.

After this hearing, when will it be decided if he is going to make a plea or go to trial ?

He will plead guilty or not guilty, or not guilty by reason of insanity, or a combination, at the arraignment. Plea deals can be discussed and arrived at at any time but it's not typical until after arriagnment, from what I've seen, when discovery is supposed to be given to the defense.

 

[Tippy Lynn]

it's important because this is his best version of what happened and it can be admitted into evidence.

So if the prosecution can poke a big hole in what he stated, and he doesn't make himself available via testimony, then you might as well flush the statement down the toilet as unreliable.

Once that happens, there is no evidence before the Court that SW killed the kids (unless the defence has something else)

All the legal documents, proceedings and hearings are important. That's usually what I rely on to base my thoughts and opinions on.

 

[idfinch]

Isn't there a specific time deadline between his initial court appearance and/or arrest, and when there must be an arraignment?

I thought I had seen it discussed before, but I could be wrong as I'm clueless about the legal aspect. @gitana1 ?

 

[PrimeSuspect]

Ok thank you. However, if I saw my child blue (which I don't think he could see this) I would be up immediately and go to her. I wouldn't be able to see what comes next on the screen even if a few seconds. JMO.

I agree, logic is needed in this case.

I can't get on board with the 'women kill their children' and that's enough to save CW's hide. CW deserves a good defense, I don't dispute that, but I'll dissect his story bit by bit, using logic not emotion to find the holes, and there are massive holes in his account. I've followed trials where the accused has put forth ridiculous claims, they can only try, they've already committed murder, what's another lie?

 

[katydid23]

Respectfully, I have better things to do with my time than to memorize an affidavit. Especially when it's available to reference anytime I choose to do so.

Again, it's my opinion that that statement doesn't prove or disprove anything.

JMO

I am not sure why the statement keeps being made, that' it doesn't prove or disprove anything. '

Her face turning blue is an important fact. It is very relevant info. Why is it being shrugged off?

 

[mrjitty]

I believe CW was making around 75K by 2018 including bonus, but not including overtime since he would have been hourly.
Median compensation Anadarko operator:
Anadarko Petroleum Operator Salaries | Paysa

Since SW was at the 80K VIP monthly sales level with 130K sales in April according to a VI, she would have been making good money if you look at their commission structure. As for the trips, airfare reimbursements were included for the 40K VIP levels and up. And they were also lucky enough to live in the Denver area, home of Frontier Airlines, offering some of the cheapest flights you'll find anywhere.

But I think it's much more relevant to discuss how much money CW must have been spending on his APs. It appears he may have spent well over a thousand on TB alone. He probably spent tens of thousand on all his APs over the years, putting his family deeper and deeper into debt, while SW was buying secondhand toys for the girls, getting haircuts at home, coloring her own hair, buying inexpensive looking clothes for herself, etc.

One can only wonder how many overtime hours he could have racked up at work instead of spending so much time on his hookups. Being such a great mechanic, he could have even bought cars, fixed them and sold them for a profit. His family would have been prospering if he had only been a responsible husband and father. MOO

Man who claims affair with accused family killer Chris Watts says Colorado dad gave him money, claimed pregnant wife Shanann Watts was ‘abusive’: EXCLUSIVE

But Bolte did say that Chris had given him some money while they were together. He said that Chris gave him cash on a few occasions when he was in need of financial help, and that Chris offered the money while also stating that he was struggling financially himself. Bolte said that in addition to the cash gifts, which he believes totaled around $1,000, Chris Watts bought him expensive skin care products at Sephora. Bolte said Watts paid in cash.​

Looking at the detail here, including screenshots of text messages - this looks pretty devastating for the defence

 

[gitana1]

Isn't there a specific time deadline between his initial court appearance and/or arrest, and when there must be an arraignment?

I thought I had seen it discussed before, but I could be wrong as I'm clueless about the legal aspect. @gitana1 ?

He waived time. He also waived the prelim but he can ask for that again later.

 

[Thepoet]

Sometimes I have to step back and take a deep breath and remind myself that the important thing is reality. Reality is; Chris Watts was arrested and charged with numerous offenses, including five counts of First Degree Murder. The DA is very serious about this prosecution and he has a great reputation. I have to believe, based on what I know and have read, that the prosecution has a great deal more evidence than we are aware of or even know exists. Reality is; we do know of considerable evidence against Chris Watts. Reality is; we have CW's admissions to lying and his confession to killing two human beings. His own words and actions. The reality is; CW will either take his own life, cop a plea, or go to trial. One of the three will have to happen. I do not wish the first on him, God forbid. The second most likely means LWOP. And his odds are very poor in the third. If the DA decides on the Death Penalty and CW is convicted, he could end up on Death Row hoping politics don't change and executions don't begin again. Everything changes, especially politics. Reality is; CW's future looks very bleak indeed. Oh, and his AP will probably find someone else.

 

[Tippy Lynn]

Isn't there a specific time deadline between his initial court appearance and/or arrest, and when there must be an arraignment?

I thought I had seen it discussed before, but I could be wrong as I'm clueless about the legal aspect. @gitana1 ?

Watts waives right to preliminary hearing
Watts and his attorneys waived his right to a preliminary hearing within 35 days in the case at a Tuesday morning hearing in which Watts was advised of the charges against him.

People charged with the highest-degree felonies are allowed preliminary hearings so prosecutors can show cause that the case should proceed in court.

Prosecutors will have 63 days after Watts' arraignment to decide if they will seek the death penalty in the case. If they do not, Watts would face mandatory life in prison without the possibility of parole if he is convicted on any of the murder charges.

Chris Watts murder case: Everything we know so far about the deaths of his wife, daughters

 

[MassGuy]

Looking at the detail here, including screenshots of text messages - this looks pretty devastating for the defence

Everything looks devastating for the defense. His words, his actions, all of it.

They certainly seem competent, but they aren’t magicians.

Hopefully!

 

[idfinch]

He waived time. He also waived the prelim but he can ask for that again later.

Thank you! Do you have any speculation about when you'd expect an arraignment, ie this year or after the start of next? Will the status conference be likely to determine that?