Found Deceased CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *CW GUILTY* #46

[mrjitty]

So many people believed his story about SW. I will leave that right there. 45 threads later.

(From last thread)

Having sat thru years of Pistorius and Knox cases, I am no longer surprised

People who are proven to lie about matters great and small are simply not credible witnesses.

The correct approach in such cases, is to discount their evidence, unless it can be independently verified.

 

[Curiouslycuriousoli]

Are

I would sure like to see the judge decide not to keep the request sealed. I don't know if it would serve any "public good" for it be released but my hunch is it would put CW in even worse light. He bore false witness to save his own behind, and apart from those granted by law IMO doesn't doesn't deserve any efforts to protect his reputation from himself. SW was an innocent victim and had no clue she or the girls were in danger. Maybe exposing everything publicly can help some other woman recognize danger and get out in time.

Are you able to comment now on why Bella changed school? That little girl looked so haunted by something

 

[minusfour]

I read about CW's first admission on a train in Japan, and today, in a dental surgery in Australia, read about his plea, (oh, massive sigh of relief, thank goodness!), and watched the DA's media post between patients. I read and read, but I just cannot make sense of it. Thank you all for keeping me such good company. I hope after November 19th we learn something that will make us understand, even just a little bit, why.

 

[mrjitty]

I agree. Something unexplainable and indefensible evidence that he killed them all with premeditation must be in the autopcy report. I wouldn't be surprised to discover different manner of death for each or some type of mutilation inflicted on the bodies.

Boy, I can't wait till the report is unsealed. Hopefully before Thanksgiving?

Maybe we can learn about why the gas cans too, if that was used in any way during 'burial'.

I doubt there will be any great reveals

The defense is constrained by reality - the mosaic of circumstantial evidence that forms the big picture.

His concocted story already takes us to the upside down where evidence of his guilt (e.g. the affair) needs to become evidence of her motive (she wouldn't accept it)

But it is simply too hard in this instance to create a story that can explain all the data points

And because SW did not murder her kids but is a victim, there will exist not one solitary piece of circumstantial evidence to tie her to the murders.

 

[Nikynoo]

I'm so glad that CW pled guilty to all charges. This must be a huge relief for both families.

I really look forward to hearing from the DA after sentencing (my new legal crush), in order that we learn more and that we can somehow learn to spot how to prevent this awfulness happening again. I think a great job undertaken by both legal teams working together for the benefit of the victims families.

Great respect to @Amandaaa for keeping a cool head under pressure and also to @MerryB and @Tippy Lynn for considering all possibilities - sometimes it good to think outside the box!

Greatest respect, for Shan'anns parents. I hope that their lives, whilst forever changed, contains lots of happiness.

Thinking of the Watts family too; whilst their son may still be alive, he is not the son they knew and loved and they have paid an awful price too.

Hopefully, this thread can now move forward on a more compassionate and harmonious footing.

 

[Curiouslycuriousoli]

I have always felt that he sexually abused the children. JMOO.

That's what i suspect

 

[mrjitty]

This article actually answers two questions that were previously brought up...



So he didn't admit to killing them and then directing them to their bodies. This reads as though they found the bodies first and THEN he gave them his story. (Most of us already knew this but a day or two ago this came up again and some thought that he told them where to find the bodies. That's not how this reads. It really does sound as if LE found them and then he scrambled to cover his tail.)

Also, a few days ago there were some questions about CW changing his story. One or two posters were saying that his story never changed. It DID, though.



This is confirmation that he did initially tell LE that she was there when he left. He later told LE that she'd killed the kids and he'd killed her in a rage.

These are just small things, but they inspired quite a bit of back and forth at the time.

Lastly...



Not surprising. Neither did most of us.

Chris Watts pleads guilty to Colorado killing of pregnant wife, daughters - CNN

Exactly.

Of course she never left without her car or her handbag etc.

And of course he was always the primary suspect and of course they knew he was lying in key matters and kept catching him out.

So why does anyone believe a self serving statement he gives after LEF learn he concealed 3 bodies?

His new "best truth"?

Obviously in Court, such evidence would be treated by a Judge as 100% unreliable.

 

[mrjitty]

This was the first case I've followed that involved the death of a child, let alone a mother, two children and an unborn child. I found it profoundly upsetting from the word go. I used to crawl into bed at 3 a.m. or even later and then lie awake sometimes until close to dawn going over everything in my mind. I know there were probably many of us who felt this way.

Last night, Oz time, I posted that maybe he was going to plead. I said that because up until we knew the status hearing was brought forward, it seemed to me that the defence were doing everything possible to slow the process down.

I only read a little while ago what has happened and to say I'm ecstatic would be a gross understatement. Knowing that Shanann has now been shown to be the totally innocent person most of us here always felt and believed makes me feel incredibly happy and also proud to be part of such a great and caring community who stand up for victims.

Knowing that the family has now achieved justice for Shanann, her daughters and Nico, I hope this will bring them some sort of peace if nothing else. It will also spare them the potential ugliness that a trial was bound to bring. I'm not one who believes in so-called closure, but I do know that while nothing can bring their much loved family back, eventually, and it will take a lot of time, I hope they will be able to remember the many happy memories that they shared together.

Shanann's family are people of grace and integrity and words can never express the sadness I feel for them. I'll never forget this case, ever.

Very nice post Judi

I 100% agree - especially when you compare to the Pistorius case and the that psycho put her family thru

 

[mrjitty]

I really feel NUA was instrumental in this quick resolution. She robbed CW of time he desperately needed to stage their disappearance and get rid of evidence. Perhaps he still would have bungled his cover up and would have been caught. But maybe it would not have been so solid a case. Casey Anthony's biggest helper was time. This isn't the thread to discuss witness testimony, so let's not go down that rabbit hole. The time Caylee was missing but nobody knew it, evidence was going who-knows-where, and the body was decomposing. I think Emily Glass may have walked as well, due to the amount of time passed between Lucas's actual demise, the report of him missing, and the retrieval of his remains. All that time only benefited the killers. NUA stole that time from CW, and I'm glad.

Yes

I suspect he was going to stage a murder suicide.

Hide the kids in the tanks where he thought they would not be discovered.

Perhaps burn SW's corpse hoping to conceal the manner of death.

I am not sure how he planned to deal with her car etc. Maybe he was just too stupid to really figure all this out properly

 

[Pi Thoughts]

As a pet lover, I would like to acknowledge Dieter the Watts family dog and trust that he did not experience any trauma from that fateful night.
Thankfully Dieter has a found a wonderful new environment to live in with some play mates.

 

[Loveallmyhorsesdogsandcats]

I have been silently reading since the threads reopened last week, but life too busy for me to comment.

You guys.....TODAY. This was the outcome I had hoped for since August 15th, but I did not think would happen, especially after following several SM groups who support CW. I thought for sure the absurdity of CWs claim and the sheer number of people believing it would make it to trial. For SW family...oh how I hope they can begin to heal now. I don't know how I could. This loss is just too profound.

For clarification, though, the domestic violence portion of the charges - is there any chance that could relate to SW inflicting domestic violence on CW?

No, he was charged with domestic abuse in the act of murdering her. There is no evidence, thru videos or any other source that she was ever abusive to CW. He must have abused/ beat her in the process of her death. They may have discovered prior instances of him abusing her.

 

[Loveallmyhorsesdogsandcats]

That's what i suspect

That though crossed my mind too

 

[PrimeSuspect]

As a pet lover, I would like to acknowledge Dieter the Watts family dog and trust that he did not experience any trauma from that fateful night.
Thankfully Dieter has a found a wonderful new environment to live in with some play mates.

Shanann's brother, Frankie Rzucek, has dieter now, he's in a good home.

“He gets a little nervous here and there because he’s not used to … my Chihuahua and her attitude lol,” Rzucek wrote. “He’s starting to figure out she’s all bark and no bite."
He added: "I couldn't be happier to have him be a part of our Dog family. He's also cool with my cat Caesar."

Chris Watts Case: Family Dog Finds a New Home With Shanann Watts' Brother

 

[Charliegizmo49]

BBM

Not sure why but that's one of the things I want to know most too. DA said something during Q&A indicating he doesn't know the order of their deaths. If he doesn't know, maybe the only person that does is CW. If that's the case, we'll never really know because even if he talks we can't believe him.

I still can easily go back and say that he spared no one nothing. Perhaps maybe a week of extreme discomfort in a courtroom

Taking a close look at those two little girls reinforces that belief. And this opinion is aside of the day to day life Watts gave those two little girls.

From the moment a child is born, wanted or not, it is a parents sole duty to unconditionally love and nuture that life to the best adult life possible.

Kids are supposed to trust that bond far further than any other familial bond they ever know. I would ascertain from photos those girls trusted Chris Watts.

Every day as he walked through the door as he returned from work, I can easily guess he was met only by their love and trust. Love and trust should never ever come be questioned. Girls require that base emotion for a successful childhood and to pave the way to be successful adults.

The girls had that TRUST AND love for their Dad. Christopher Watts lacked it, for whatever reason did not truly love the girls. Except in his mental black hole in a perverse self serving way.

And when you begin to consider an unborn child and an imperfect wife it supports my opinion that a plea was far to good for him.

He destroyed Shannon, but in the process took every protective aspect of Nicos life.

I wonder, as Shannan’s body died, how did Nico die? I believe that as her heart stopped beating, Nico felt his life slipping away. Healthy fetuses struggle and reach toward the protective womb for everything he needed. Like his mother and two sisters he never found anything except the sound of his dying mother’s heartbeat.

I don’t know if murderers think about actual physical processes during a killing, in this case Nico might have suffered the worst.

Did any of his family see it coming? I don’t believe so. Watts Life appeared to be unraveling eventually spiraling out of control.

I believe Shannan and Chris May have argued during her time away. And even during the trip back east.

During that time, I believe he formulated his death plan. Over the next few weeks he perfected it and maybe practiced the trips to the oil tanks.

He may have removed the bolts from the man seal on each tank in preparation to drop each of them into the tanks. I believe he also prepared a detailed number of items he would need to kill.

A lot of forethought wentvinto murdering his family. I believe it was well planned and executed.

And while I support the concept of sparing the families grief and suffering, in this case I believe a trial would have helped prevent another crime against a family. Another parent entrusted with their children’s first 18 years.

That parental obligation and responsibility I might guess wasn’t a part of Chris Watts.

He has options other than murder. DIVORCE,!! Chris would have lost financially but famikyvwiukd have survived.


I like the County attorney and understandvand accept the very good reasons a plea was negotiated.

It is very unclear if anything could have prevented these murders.

Mostly I hope sends a message to other family annualitators who are entrenched in plans to kill.

 

[JudgeJudi]

DA Rourke answered some questions after the presser. I’ve transcribed most of the questions together with his responses. Some of the questions were difficult to hear.

‘Sandi said very, very poignantly to me. She said that, “He made the choice to take those lives. I do not want to be in a position of making a choice to take his”.’

Q. Chris Watts first said Shan’ann actually killed the two little girls. What was his story when he changed his mind and were they killed before Shan’ann got home?
A. I don’t know the answer to that question. We talked a lot about whether we would require him to come forward and give us what we believed to be a complete, accurate and truthful statement. I think all of those who were involved never truly believed that he would give us an accurate statement. What I can tell you most affirmatively today by what happened in the courtroom is the spotlight that he tried to shine on Shan’ann falsely, incorrectly, and frankly a flat out lie, has been corrected. The spotlight shines directly where it belongs, on him.

Q. What’s the status of the autopsy reports?
A. Those are still sealed at this point. I need to have a conversation with the Coroner’s office, with Shan’ann’s family and the County Attorney representing the Coroner’s office about what point in time those will become a public record. We are not assuming that the sentencing hearing goes the way that we believe that it will and goes forward. We will not be asking that those be kept sealed any longer after the sentencing hearing.

Q. Was it just a matter of the death penalty to get the guilty pleas?
A. You’d have to ask them. All I can tell you is the discussions we had with them, and frankly the discussions that Mr Wren (? sp.) we had with the Rzucek family, made it very clear that there was not gonna be no further concession. I didn’t feel like this was a case where it was appropriate to agree to dismiss some counts in exchange for a plea of guilty to others because we charged him with what we truly believed he’d done at the time we filed that complaint, and I was not willing to entertain any further concessions above and beyond removing the death penalty from consideration.

Q. During your investigation, did you ever get a motive from Chris Watts?
A. Ask me again in two and a half weeks or – the day after the day of sentencing I’ll be happy to answer that question. At this point that’s getting a little bit too far into the investigation at least as we sit right now. We believe that we have a partial motive. I’m not sure if it’s the entirety of the motive but I’ll be happy to comment on that after the sentencing hearing.

Q. Will Chris Watts be in solitary confinement?
A. I don’t know. I don’t know the answer to that. Whether or not he’s in solitary confinement, where he serves his time, whether it be – in what DOC facility in the State of Colorado or if he’s one who’s transferred to another state is left to the discretion of the Executive Director of the Department of Corrections.

… He deserves a life sentence for each and every act on top of one another. In practicality, it doesn’t make a difference in terms of how long he’s ultimately gonna serve, but what he needs to understand is he will be serving 3 consecutive life sentences plus a sentence for Nico because of the acts that he committed against all four of them. It is important that each of those beautiful human beings be reflected in the ultimate sentence that will be imposed.

Q. Have you ever had a case like this resolved so soon into the investigation?
A. No.

DA speaks following Chris Watts guilty plea

 

[Tortoise]

Do you think the AP will ever come forward? I’d sure like to hear what she has to say.

I expect she might agree some time down the line to partake in one of those true crime documentaries where they place the person in darkness in front of faintly outlined blinds and change their voice into Dalek speak.

 

[Loveallmyhorsesdogsandcats]

DA Rourke answered some questions after the presser. I’ve transcribed most of the questions together with his responses. Some of the questions were difficult to hear.

‘Sandi said very, very poignantly to me. She said that, “He made the choice to take those lives. I do not want to be in a position of making a choice to take his”.’

Q. Chris Watts first said Shan’ann actually killed the two little girls. What was his story when he changed his mind and were they killed before Shan’ann got home?
A. I don’t know the answer to that question. We talked a lot about whether we would require him to come forward and give us what we believed to be a complete, accurate and truthful statement. I think all of those who were involved never truly believed that he would give us an accurate statement. What I can tell you most affirmatively today by what happened in the courtroom is the spotlight that he tried to shine on Shan’ann falsely, incorrectly, and frankly a flat out lie, has been corrected. The spotlight shines directly where it belongs, on him.

Q. What’s the status of the autopsy reports?
A. Those are still sealed at this point. I need to have a conversation with the Coroner’s office, with Shan’ann’s family and the County Attorney representing the Coroner’s office about what point in time those will become a public record. We are not assuming that the sentencing hearing goes the way that we believe that it will and goes forward. We will not be asking that those be kept sealed any longer after the sentencing hearing.

Q. Was it just a matter of the death penalty to get the guilty pleas?
A. You’d have to ask them. All I can tell you is the discussions we had with them, and frankly the discussions that Mr Wren (? sp.) we had with the Rzucek family, made it very clear that there was not gonna be no further concession. I didn’t feel like this was a case where it was appropriate to agree to dismiss some counts in exchange for a plea of guilty to others because we charged him with what we truly believed he’d done at the time we filed that complaint, and I was not willing to entertain any further concessions above and beyond removing the death penalty from consideration.

Q. During your investigation, did you ever get a motive from Chris Watts?
A. Ask me again in two and a half weeks or – the day after the day of sentencing I’ll be happy to answer that question. At this point that’s getting a little bit too far into the investigation at least as we sit right now. We believe that we have a partial motive. I’m not sure if it’s the entirety of the motive but I’ll be happy to comment on that after the sentencing hearing.

Q. Will Chris Watts be in solitary confinement?
A. I don’t know. I don’t know the answer to that. Whether or not he’s in solitary confinement, where he serves his time, whether it be – in what DOC facility in the State of Colorado or if he’s one who’s transferred to another state is left to the discretion of the Executive Director of the Department of Corrections.

… He deserves a life sentence for each and every act on top of one another. In practicality, it doesn’t make a difference in terms of how long he’s ultimately gonna serve, but what he needs to understand is he will be serving 3 consecutive life sentences plus a sentence for Nico because of the acts that he committed against all four of them. It is important that each of those beautiful human beings be reflected in the ultimate sentence that will be imposed.

Q. Have you ever had a case like this resolved so soon into the investigation?
A. No.

DA speaks following Chris Watts guilty plea

Thank you, you are awesome!

 

[PrimeSuspect]

No, he was charged with domestic abuse in the act of murdering her. There is no evidence, thru videos or any other source that she was ever abusive to CW. He must have abused/ beat her in the process of her death. They may have discovered prior instances of him abusing her.

I agree, so annoying anyone thinks SW was abusive.

 

[Loveallmyhorsesdogsandcats]

I’m not sure what’s so confusing. Maybe I don’t understand. LE knew about something that looked like a grave going into the interrogation room, they didn’t know if anyone was in it because they hadn’t dug it up, yet. They didn’t know about the oil tanks.

They knew she was going to be in that grave and the logical next step was to search the oil tanks. CW was backed in a corner so he came up with his SW killed them story, he had no choice because he knew they knew where the bodies were.

 

[Loveallmyhorsesdogsandcats]

I agree, so annoying anyone thinks SW was abusive.

Yes it is. At the press conference O’Rouke referred to motive and having “partial motive” figured out. That translate into he planned this. His killing his children was premeditated anyway you look at it, whether it was to eliminate a witness who saw him kill SW or they were killed before she arrived home. In any scenario, he choose himself.