Found Deceased CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *CW GUILTY* #46

[mrjitty]

These kind of domestic murders are frequently described as a man "snapping" without warning but that tends to be a myth.

What got me thinking is that the male AP said that CW made statements about SW being abusive, painting himself as a victim. That he couldn't escape her. One VI said he liked SW at times but seemed to indicate she had another side.

Was this projection?

What had CW been saying about SW to other people? e.g. his other AP?

And what had SW been saying to NUA over drinks and a late night flight?

People interpret SW's OTT lovey dovey-ness (FB posts etc) as evidence of her being a fake - but what if she was the one coerced? If she was the one made to feel insecure?

I would not be surprised to learn of an emotionally abusive relationship here.

Especially NUA's conduct on Monday morning. Maybe she was worried SW was passed out in bed in the house having a health crisis.

But who rings the police if the Husband says she is out?

Intuition?

or something more?

 

[mtnlites]

Had there been any evidence of sexual abuse that DA wouldn’t have let CW slide. He would have charged him. But CW plead guilty to 3 deliberate murders, but we’ve seen no evidence of premeditation. There has to be something we don’t know about. The autopsy reports? Text messages? Internet searches?

I'm going to say yes, probably, and yes.

 

[Colorado303]

Me too. I've felt so upset today when I saw this news. I strongly believed he was responsible all along and without a doubt I am glad he's pleaded guilty for the sake of Shannan's family. However, I too feel sick with the reality of what he has done.

I feel so incredibly sad this happened. What an absolute waste. Beautiful lives taken and for what? He now spends his life in jail. My heart breaks for both families involved and all their friends.

I have to say this case has made me loose faith in humanity. All those slandering Shannan, digging through her posts and pulling apart her parenting. It's been so horrendous to watch. I can't imagine how traumatizing that must have been for her family.

BBM

Me too. I haven't lost faith in all humanity (too many wonderful people on here alone for that) just some of it. But so much ugliness from so many people eager to pick apart SW's memory has taken it's toll. I've been shocked and dismayed to see strangers coming out of the woodwork to criticize NUA and relentlessly attack SW, two of the kindest people I know. Social media can be a wonderful thing, but it's also nurturing some nasty, scary stuff. Bullying isn't just for kids anymore.

I didn't really think about it until witnessing the SW feeding frenzy, but now realize I've heard adults say "I hate", "I won't work with" and "I refuse to be friends with" [some group of people] more in the last 3 years than in the rest of my life combined. Several "normal " generally nice people I've known for years now openly distain some group of people based solely on their political affiliation (red and blue alike), religion, ethnicity, sexual preference or profession-- And in every case there's a facebook group or website they visit regularly where their prejudices are supported and even encouraged. This can't be good.

And heaven help our kids. Instead of learning how to work through conflict, compromise and get along with others, I know too many teenagers foregoing real relationships to spend time with their internet "friends". Online bullying is rampant. Teen suicides have skyrocketed--we had two kids kill themselves within days of each other in one High School alone last month and it's believed the internet played a role in both. So much so a group of local high school students created "Offline October", swearing off social media for a month. I don't think it caught on, but good for them for recognizing the dark side of online group dynamics.

I

 

[mtnlites]

<modsnip - removed quoted post and direct reply to it>

I think that for many, and I say this to encompass internetland and not specifically to mean WS, it was difficult to separate personal bias from facts. It's okay to look at a victim and think that you'd probably not like them or be friends in real life, yet still understand that they're very much a victim and didn't commit a crime. So many of the topics that were up for discussion were so subjective that they couldn't possibly be considered "proof" for SW's alleged guilt. (And no matter what, if you're "considering both sides" then you were considering the idea that she killed the girls.) Different parenting choices, choices that are perfectly acceptable and not abusive in any way, doesn't make that person a murderer. "Excessive" social media posting varies from person to person and that's not an indication of guilt, either. (I post around 15 statuses a day on FB. My husband, who has close to 20,000 followers on Twitter, tweets 50 or more during certain seasons.) Presenting a perfect life on SM and only showing the good stuff? Yep. Welcome to the new millennium. One-hundred years from now when our great-grandchildren look back on this time they'll think we all threw Pinterest-worthy birthday parties, had immaculately clean houses, were madly in love with our perfect spouses, had perfectly behaved children, and handmade all our Christmas presents.

For some reason, SW seemed to be polarizing. I think that happens a lot with strong, ambitious, beautiful women. I have found that when there isn't an obvious reason to dislike women like that, people will go looking for one. But disliking someone isn't proof that they're a killer.

This case and people's reactions to the people involved in the crime has fascinated and terrified me. I was starting to feel that Sha'nann, Nico, Cece, and Bella were starting to get lost as people. That was incredibly sad. I've followed many crimes over the years and I've written about some terribly tragic and horrifying murders. The re-victimization of victims never ceases to sadden me, though.

 

[mrjitty]

For some reason, SW seemed to be polarizing. I think that happens a lot with strong, ambitious, beautiful women. I have found that when there isn't an obvious reason to dislike women like that, people will go looking for one. But disliking someone isn't proof that they're a killer.

This case and people's reactions to the people involved in the crime has fascinated and terrified me. I was starting to feel that Sha'nann, Nico, Cece, and Bella were starting to get lost as people. That was incredibly sad. I've followed many crimes over the years and I've written about some terribly tragic and horrifying murders. The re-victimization of victims never ceases to sadden me, though.

Snipping to offer a different or additional take ...

A good mate of mine worked for women's refuge for many years, on the front lines and eventually in a national leadership role.

One of the stubborn problems is the ongoing refusal of friends, family, general public to believe that nice white guys do this.

When the guy finally does something that can't be concealed (hospitalisation, murder etc) then it is rationalised. There has to be a reason or a mistake.

Maybe he was stressed. He snapped. She had it coming. He didn't really do it.

But the simply fact is women are not believed.

Even when he gets caught with the bodies.

 

[JudgeJudi]

A source close to CW said he didn’t want to plead guilty to murdering his wife and daughters but his lawyers helped him realize that given the extensive evidence against him and his own damning behavior during the investigation, he had little choice. He said, “Their evidence against him was overwhelming. There was physical evidence and his own words that would convict him. His story didn’t work. He got angry. He didn’t want to plead guilty. But he really had no choice, considering the evidence. It took a little bit of time for him to come around, but he did.”

The defence team approached the DA several weeks ago about a possible plea — not the other way around. Four days ago the decision was made to remove the death penalty from the table if he agreed to plead guilty. The source said, “There was some yelling, and some crying but eventually he acknowledged that his life was over after he killed Shan’ann”. It wasn’t even clear until this week if he would change his mind.

How Chris Watts Decided to Plead to Killing Family: 'Eventually He Acknowledged His Life Was Over'

Remorse? Absolutely not. He was yelling and crying for himself. He knew the evidence was overwhelming and he probably was in a rage when he knew he had no choice unless he wanted to gamble on the death penalty. His lawyers must have been very persuasive.

Was he thinking of his family? Absolutely not. If he didn't think of his immediate family as he squeezed the last remaining breath from their bodies, why would he think of his parents etc. Nope, this was all about him.

 

[TTF14]

Wow, just saw the news on GMA about the guilty plea!! I'm glad there will at least not be a trial her family has to sit through.

 

[mtnlites]

BBM

Me too. I haven't lost faith in all humanity (too many wonderful people on here alone for that) just some of it. But so much ugliness from so many people eager to pick apart SW's memory has taken it's toll. I've been shocked and dismayed to see strangers coming out of the woodwork to criticize NUA and relentlessly attack SW, two of the kindest people I know. Social media can be a wonderful thing, but it's also nurturing some nasty, scary stuff. Bullying isn't just for kids anymore.

I didn't really think about it until witnessing the SW feeding frenzy, but now realize I've heard adults say "I hate", "I won't work with" and "I refuse to be friends with" [some group of people] more in the last 3 years than in the rest of my life combined. Several "normal " generally nice people I've known for years now openly distain some group of people based solely on their political affiliation (red and blue alike), religion, ethnicity, sexual preference or profession-- And in every case there's a facebook group or website they visit regularly where their prejudices are supported and even encouraged. This can't be good.

And heaven help our kids. Instead of learning how to work through conflict, compromise and get along with others, I know too many teenagers foregoing real relationships to spend time with their internet "friends". Online bullying is rampant. Teen suicides have skyrocketed--we had two kids kill themselves within days of each other in one High School alone last month and it's believed the internet played a role in both. So much so a group of local high school students created "Offline October", swearing off social media for a month. I don't think it caught on, but good for them for recognizing the dark side of online group dynamics.

I

With all the "thank yous" going around today I just wanted to say that while I often find myself losing faith in humanity, every once in a while you find this bright little light that boosts that faith again. I think YOU are one of those lights and many of us are appreciative for the insight you've provided and your staunch support of your friend. Frankly, I don't know how you've been able to hang around and read a lot of this. I know from personal experience what a great person you are and lots of us have really appreciated the time you've taken to share your information and to answer questions that help present Shanann in the light in which she truly deserves to be seen. And now, because I can't insert a heart, you get a pink smiley.

 

[Niner]

Don't want anyone missing the sentencing - from tweets it said it starts at 10:30am, but the court site has this:

Docket for: Weld County - Weld County Court House
Showing 1 - 1 of 1 records

Date Len Name Hearing Type Case # Location Division
11/19/18
10:00 AM 2H WATTS, CHRISTOPHER Sentencing Hearing D622018CR2003 Weld County Division 16


link: Seventh Judicial District » Docket Search

 

[Nikynoo]

Had there been any evidence of sexual abuse that DA wouldn’t have let CW slide. He would have charged him. But CW plead guilty to 3 deliberate murders, but we’ve seen no evidence of premeditation. There has to be something we don’t know about. The autopsy reports? Text messages? Internet searches?

I agree Layla - the DA was quite clear that the ONLY concession he was giving was removing the death penalty.

 

[mtnlites]

Snipping to offer a different or additional take ...

A good mate of mine worked for women's refuge for many years, on the front lines and eventually in a national leadership role.

One of the stubborn problems is the ongoing refusal of friends, family, general public to believe that nice white guys do this.

When the guy finally does something that can't be concealed (hospitalisation, murder etc) then it is rationalised. There has to be a reason or a mistake.

Maybe he was stressed. He snapped. She had it coming. He didn't really do it.

But the simply fact is women are not believed.

Even when he gets caught with the bodies.

When I was a crisis intervention specialist, I encountered that a lot.

I think that one of the reasons people had trouble with this crime is because it's so scary. From the outside, the Watts had a seemingly good life. People HAD to find fault with SW because to do otherwise would mean that the possibility of it happening to them exists. I see the same thing when I tell people how my son died. 50% of the time they start asking me the same questions, politely implying if I did something wrong to cause his death. We lost many friends because they were convinced that we were somehow responsible. The fact is, lots of parents are scared because to admit that my husband and I didn't do anything wrong means they have to face the idea that it could happen to THEIR child and that's too much to consider. It's almost a self-preservation tactic.

 

[Seattle1]

I have been silently reading since the threads reopened last week, but life too busy for me to comment.

You guys.....TODAY. This was the outcome I had hoped for since August 15th, but I did not think would happen, especially after following several SM groups who support CW. I thought for sure the absurdity of CWs claim and the sheer number of people believing it would make it to trial. For SW family...oh how I hope they can begin to heal now. I don't know how I could. This loss is just too profound.

For clarification, though, the domestic violence portion of the charges - is there any chance that could relate to SW inflicting domestic violence on CW?

No, the 1st count was changed from murder, to "murder as an act of domestic violence in an intimate relationship" because the defendant murdered his spouse. The charge conforms with the Colorado criminal code, and is not related to any alleged abuse inflicted on the defendant.

 

[Thepoet]

DA Rourke answered some questions after the presser. I’ve transcribed most of the questions together with his responses. Some of the questions were difficult to hear.

‘Sandi said very, very poignantly to me. She said that, “He made the choice to take those lives. I do not want to be in a position of making a choice to take his”.’

Q. Chris Watts first said Shan’ann actually killed the two little girls. What was his story when he changed his mind and were they killed before Shan’ann got home?
A. I don’t know the answer to that question. We talked a lot about whether we would require him to come forward and give us what we believed to be a complete, accurate and truthful statement. I think all of those who were involved never truly believed that he would give us an accurate statement. What I can tell you most affirmatively today by what happened in the courtroom is the spotlight that he tried to shine on Shan’ann falsely, incorrectly, and frankly a flat out lie, has been corrected. The spotlight shines directly where it belongs, on him.

Q. What’s the status of the autopsy reports?
A. Those are still sealed at this point. I need to have a conversation with the Coroner’s office, with Shan’ann’s family and the County Attorney representing the Coroner’s office about what point in time those will become a public record. We are not assuming that the sentencing hearing goes the way that we believe that it will and goes forward. We will not be asking that those be kept sealed any longer after the sentencing hearing.

Q. Was it just a matter of the death penalty to get the guilty pleas?
A. You’d have to ask them. All I can tell you is the discussions we had with them, and frankly the discussions that Mr Wren (? sp.) we had with the Rzucek family, made it very clear that there was not gonna be no further concession. I didn’t feel like this was a case where it was appropriate to agree to dismiss some counts in exchange for a plea of guilty to others because we charged him with what we truly believed he’d done at the time we filed that complaint, and I was not willing to entertain any further concessions above and beyond removing the death penalty from consideration.

Q. During your investigation, did you ever get a motive from Chris Watts?
A. Ask me again in two and a half weeks or – the day after the day of sentencing I’ll be happy to answer that question. At this point that’s getting a little bit too far into the investigation at least as we sit right now. We believe that we have a partial motive. I’m not sure if it’s the entirety of the motive but I’ll be happy to comment on that after the sentencing hearing.

Q. Will Chris Watts be in solitary confinement?
A. I don’t know. I don’t know the answer to that. Whether or not he’s in solitary confinement, where he serves his time, whether it be – in what DOC facility in the State of Colorado or if he’s one who’s transferred to another state is left to the discretion of the Executive Director of the Department of Corrections.

… He deserves a life sentence for each and every act on top of one another. In practicality, it doesn’t make a difference in terms of how long he’s ultimately gonna serve, but what he needs to understand is he will be serving 3 consecutive life sentences plus a sentence for Nico because of the acts that he committed against all four of them. It is important that each of those beautiful human beings be reflected in the ultimate sentence that will be imposed.

Q. Have you ever had a case like this resolved so soon into the investigation?
A. No.

DA speaks following Chris Watts guilty plea

Thank you so much. I listened to it, but it helped to go back and read it.

 

[Tortoise]

I’d love for you to be right, but at the same time, I’m not holding my breath.

His actions were monstrous, and I’m not sure that a person who can do something like that, is even capable of truly grasping what other people are going through.

It’s weird, but I almost hope that he isn’t capable of making that type of pivot, as I can’t reconcile the act, with humanity.

Yes, being capable of crushing the soft warm necks of the babes he raised who loved and trusted him (sorry to be graphic but it is the only way I feel the impact of what he did can be put across) while they terrifyingly struggled for air means to me that he is incapable of empathy or remorse. I will take anything and everything he says as self-serving and a mere mimicry of human/humane behaviour.

His actions were psychopathic and there is no grey area for me, that he could be partly or sometimes a psychopath. It isn't a criticism of him, that is the way that he is. He has fooled everyone his entire adult life (unless he had a recent brain injury) and that is the psychopath's specialty. While grotesque and heinous that he could strangle Shan'ann, a person can fall out of love or cease to love their spouse. A parent does not fall out of love with or cease to love their children. A parent's instinct (unless there is intellectual deficiency or challenges) is to save and protect children from harm and risk of fatality. That cannot be overwritten or suppressed. Their suffering is your suffering, as a parent. True empathy.

I'm convinced by his porch interviews that he felt nothing but relief and excited anticipation of his new life. He had no pain inside him. He didn't relive their suffering because he never felt it originally. They were no more to him than a problem on paper. Whatever he does, cries, begs, pleads for forgiveness etc it will be self-serving mimicry. Someone in that amount of pain would not want to live with themselves anymore, not bargain for death penalty to be taken off the table. If he commits suicide it will not be remorse or guilt, but probably an act of defiance or depression with lost freedoms.

All MOO. I am not a medical expert.

 

[JudgeJudi]

I’m hoping he makes it until Nov. 19. You never know what he could be thinking.

Maybe something like, "That ******* NUA. This is all her fault. If only ..."

 

[TTF14]

I’m hoping he makes it until Nov. 19. You never know what he could be thinking.

Agree. I think he'll suicide.

 

[mtnlites]

I am envisioning the conversation between him and the attorney...

Atty: You should really take this plea they're offering.
CW: But I didn't kill the girls.
Atty: You initially lied about where they were.
CW: I was in denial, still in shock over what had happened.
Atty: You hid their bodies in an oil tank.
CW: I panicked! I wasn't thinking straight!
Atty: You placed their mother in a shallow grave.
CW: I knew people wouldn't understand!
Atty: You changed the original story you gave to LE.
CW: I didn't know what I was saying the first time!
Atty: You smiled and laughed in televised interviews, all the while knowing your family was dead.
CW: It was nervous laughter!
Atty: You stated that you saw your daughter blue on the baby monitor. You monitor is black and white.
CW: I meant that she was pale!
Atty: The day after she supposedly killed your children, you wore a shirt that your murderous wife bought for you. You wore it on television.
CW: It was just the first thing I grabbed from the closet!
Atty: The Thayers say you were more concerned about how you looked on television than in hearing ideas about how you could search for your family.
CW: I was emotionally drained!
Atty: Your own friends turned you into the police the day after you spent the night with them.
CW: They were confused!
Atty: your internet searches from the day before included phrases like "how long does it take to strangle someone"
CW: It was for a friend!
Atty: We have proof that you were having an affair. That gives you motive.
CW: I was going to end that, I swear!
Atty: Your handprints are around their necks.
CW: Well...
Atty: The girls' time of death is 4 hours before your wife even got home.
CW: Okay, I see where you're going with this...

Now clearly some of those things are just hypothetical, but I can totally see how CW thought he could bs his way through a trial and that people would buy his story. The fact that the defense, his own attorneys, approached the prosecutor for a plea says loads. At some point even CW realized he was screwed. I am anxious to hear the rest of the evidence.

 

[Seattle1]

Man pleads guilty to killing pregnant wife, daughters

Man pleads guilty to killing pregnant wife, daughters

Video report at link above (GMA)

 

[JudgeJudi]

CW looked like he has gained weight, his face wasn’t as angular if that makes sense. The bullet proof vest was snug to say the least.

Hmph, so he's missing his patches already. He'll probably revert to his frumpy looking self before Shan'ann got him onto the patches and bought him his favourite shirts.

 

[Seattle1]

Chris Watts pleads guilty to murdering wife, daughters

Video at link (Today Show)