Found Deceased CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *CW GUILTY* #47

[Deleted member 182072]

From the previous thread:
@kiwilaura

Directed at the general apologists, no one in particular. But if you’re in this camp, there are plenty of places you can now go to chat. Not here.

Why are people still trying to somehow find some justification for these murders. I don’t care how much pressure they were under. I don’t care if Shanann travelled too much. Or spent too much money. Or Chris did. Or one of them hen-pecked the other.

MILLIONS of families are under pressure. Millions have money problems, relationship problems, health problems, family problems, drug problems... yet manage not to kill their partner and children.

To cope, millions of men and women cheat on their partners. Have full blown affairs or just sleep around. Lie. Turn their backs on their families. Walk away. Bad mouth their exes. Get divorced.

I could excuse Chris for any of the above. But there is no justification for his actions. NONE.

If he really couldn’t handle whatever the pressure was, he should have topped himself.

Stop trying to find a way to suggest this was inevitable or that “you can see how it happened”.

Just wanted to bring this forward because it cannot be said enough.
And I've yet to see any outrage from those 'poor Chris' apologists for what he did to those girls. MOO

 

[sun16]

What just baffles me beyond belief is what makes a person 'fix' things the way he did? Now i know what I speak of here....... Just like him, I had a relationship, marriage and kids. Nice home, job, loving parents and good friends. And I just walked out on it all. Yep, left behind a shocked husband, devastated young children, mortified parents and angry friends. Just snapped. Walked out that door and didn't look back for years. Not my finest moments, however...I guess I can be thankful every day that while my coping skills left nothing to be desired, I could never ever hurt another human being physically, especially not my children. I hear about cases like this and can only wish that he had the sense to just walk away. For anyone that says you can't always just do that, I am here to say you can.
I just cannot wrap my head around the fact that he chose such an option that he did. The thought never ever would have occurred to me to do what he did.
ps....just to add a footnote, in the past 10 years my now adult children and I have been rebuilding our relationship. They are gift and I am forever grateful that they found a way to let me back into their lives.

Thank you for sharing. I have not done what you describe (at that level) but have at lower levels. I do think a lot of it has to do with how we’re raised. I won’t waste space here with off topic details. Just thanks.

 

[x_files]

From the previous thread:
@kiwilaura

Just wanted to bring this forward because it cannot be said enough.
And I've yet to see any outrage from those 'poor Chris' apologists for what he did to those girls. MOO

I recall seeing here and online people (esp. women!) making excuses of why he'd kill her. I was disturbed. She was too busy, too bossy, too ambitious etc...there's a thing called divorce. You don't kill someone because they have a career.
I'm glad he finally confessed. Now, I want him to admit why. ugh...so livid with anyone making excuses for a wife/baby killer!!!

 

[Tigerlily75]

SBM for brevity

Serena, I really appreciate your well-thought out and respectful post here. Very insightful and I thought worth bringing forward again. Some of what you said doesn't apply to me, but what I've highlighted above is really spot for me on in many ways.

I was one who, while in absolutely no way a CW supporter, came to the point of wanting to at least try to hold my full judgement until we knew more. This was primarily in the interest of innocent until proven guilty- which I'm a real fanatic about just in general in life. This left me wanting to ponder the Defense strategy and to try to "keep an open mind" to a certain extent. (To be clear, I was never a SW basher and those following my posts would know this).

But what Serena said above, I think speaks to my deeper feelings and why I stayed awake some nights so disturbed by this case. It went beyond my interest in preserving the American justice system of innocent until proven guilty. I just couldn't (and still can't) wrap my head around a person doing this to his family. He seemed so normal. He just seemed so normal. In ways that other FA's have not to me. And being able to see all of SW's social media gave us an insight into their family life. SO. NORMAL. I'd not had an up-close view like this before. And their life not only seemed so normal, but amazingly positive. The question left like an elephant in my brain was: if CW could do this, what is up and what is down? Who else is capable of something like this?

So what Serena says- the effusive reverence of CW and the family life in SW's posts and videos- did call into question for me SW's credibility. The reality was that this family was murdered. All was NOT well. So my brain was not able to compute. It's not that I ever just "believed CW", it's that my brain did not compute the situation. I was searching for answers and therefore was open to nearly anything- anything at all that would help shed even a little light onto why the family dynamics ended up being literally the opposite of what we saw. (mental illnesses? personality disorders? financially irresponsible behaviors? affairs? anything...anything...was searching for anything to grasp onto.) Certainly nothing would ever fully explain it or in any way justify the deaths of those 4 souls, but what in the name of God went wrong? What was it? All was not well and nothing added up. It left me in a state of very uncomfortable confusion.

In any case, Serena's post resonated with me. I'm not looking to create further debate. I'm just wanting to second Serena's deeper thoughts that I highlighted above. I think it's a great explanation of the way some of us could/could not process these atrocities and what motivated some of us on a deeper level. In the end, I'm impressed by so many posters' insights and knowledge of past cases, patterns they recognized, etc. I remain completely baffled as to how CW could do what he did. But he did. It will be a profoundly disturbing case for me for years to come.

Thank you for this post. It’s the best explanation I’ve seen of something that I just could not fathom or understand. I was unequivocally 100% sure he did it - based primarily on the fact he got no help for his children he said he witnessed being actively murdered, and his actions afterwards (this scenario is way beyond the realm of normal human behavior in any circumstances) but that makes it no less disturbing to me. I agree 100% that he seemed SO NORMAL and it makes you wonder if absolutely anyone is capable of murder, given the right set of circumstances. And that is really, really scary.

That said, further down the line, I am sure there is a lot more to this story than we know, and that CW has a lot of secrets. As has been said, we know very little about his past.

But I also believe SW didn’t have a clue, and she was completely blindsided. I think her reality and her presentation of her life was completely genuine. She didn’t have a clue who she was married to.

 

[Seattle1]

Scott Peterson is likely going to get his conviction overturned soon due to a technicality involving the jury.

Why do you believe Peterson's conviction will be overturned soon?!! What is the technicality you are referring to and do you have a link for this serious allegation. Never heard of any of this!! TIA

 

[sun16]

Why do you believe Peterson's conviction will be overturned soon?!! What is the technicality you are referring to and do you have a link for this serious allegation. Never heard of any of this!! TIA

Yes, not to get too OT, but I was shocked to read this. I don’t believe he’s ever going anywhere.

 

[liltexans]

Why do you believe Peterson's conviction will be overturned soon?!! What is the technicality you are referring to and do you have a link for this serious allegation. Never heard of any of this!! TIA

I don't want to derail this thread since we have a thread for Laci and Conner. Essentially, there is a possibility that the conviction could be overturned due to the actions by one of the jurors when they went on their jury field trip to inspect/look at Scott's boat. Again, I don't know if the conviction will be overturned, and I certainly hope it won't, but his legal team is trying to get his conviction overturned. Maybe it won't be "soon", but anything would be too soon for me. He should never leave prison.

 

[Yesiamapirate]

I think it’s really brave of you to admit that to everyone here, I’m sure at that time you did what you thought was best for tour children, there’s no text book to tell you how to be a parent and it is hard sometimes. I’m a single parent to four children and there’s definitely been times I’ve felt like packing my bags and leaving! But no matter how hard it gets, you don’t hurt your children.

Thanks for your kind words. This was a big deal for me to share this. Despite sharing my story here, there are very few people in my life that know the whole story. I had just hoped that maybe sharing my story would give some insight into the mind of someone who has been there. At some point CW and myself were at the same turning point. Yet two totally different endings. I hope one day my story can help someone else.

 

[Tortoise]

What just baffles me beyond belief is what makes a person 'fix' things the way he did? Now i know what I speak of here....... Just like him, I had a relationship, marriage and kids. Nice home, job, loving parents and good friends. And I just walked out on it all. Yep, left behind a shocked husband, devastated young children, mortified parents and angry friends. Just snapped. Walked out that door and didn't look back for years. Not my finest moments, however...I guess I can be thankful every day that while my coping skills left nothing to be desired, I could never ever hurt another human being physically, especially not my children. I hear about cases like this and can only wish that he had the sense to just walk away. For anyone that says you can't always just do that, I am here to say you can.
I just cannot wrap my head around the fact that he chose such an option that he did. The thought never ever would have occurred to me to do what he did.
ps....just to add a footnote, in the past 10 years my now adult children and I have been rebuilding our relationship. They are gift and I am forever grateful that they found a way to let me back into their lives.

What you did, IMO, took courage, by the sounds of it. It's not easy to walk away from your whole support system. I suspect CW with narcissistic pathology would not be able to tolerate the prospect of being vilified.

ETA a MOO!

 

[Seattle1]

Yes, not to get too OT, but I was shocked to read this. I don’t believe he’s ever going anywhere.

Agree. I can't imagine anything regarding and/or involving the jury would not have been revealed years ago. MOO

 

[Madison418]

Perpetrators that grow up killing animals and progressed to humans are a different type then from Chris. Those people get pleasure from killing some type of reward , that is not Chris. He killed his children because he lacks the emotions/ bonding that the rest of us have that would prevent us from killing our children. someone who truly loves their children and has bonded with them would not choose to kill them as the answer to whatever conflict they have, they would not be able to find a reason to justify killing thtor children and expect to live their life as normal. He is wired differently, has some wires crossed. Whatever the situation was with the death of SW, he chose to kill those children because in his mind their deaths benefited him somehow.

Right, those that kill animals and progress to people are more likely serial killers and get off on it. I agree that Chris is not the serial killer type. I think he lacks empathy, emotion, connection. Perhaps a sociopath. All IMO

 

[Tortoise]

There will be no mitigating at the sentencing hearing. CW could not voluntarily enter the plea agreement if not of sound mind. At the hearing, CW was asked several questions by the Judge affirming this, and will continue to question him at sentencing. His punishment LWOP x 3 served consecutively is firm. MOO

You're probably correct, but being of sound mind during the plea deal is not the same as being of sound mind during the commission of the crimes.

And I'm not saying I think he was temporarily insane, I'm just thinking about all possibilities so we don't have any shocks!

 

[tmar]

To someone like CW, who comes across to me as being a nebbish, a person who is basically just there, not a go getter, and eventually a proven coward, I think prison in some kind of confinement from getting killed will be fine for him. Maybe that sounds too snarky, but for the rest of his life, probably 40+ years to go, he doesn't have to think for one minute how to put food on the table, a roof over his head, provide for other people, smile when he isn't really participating, etc. Free medical. I don't know who pays for the books, but probably he gets access to a library or things sent to him by family and sycophants wanting to marry him.

So I just don't see it as such a bad place for a guy who first of all did something horrible, but secondly will probably do better in prison, if not murdered, than he did on the outside.

That's just how I look at it, assuming he gets books, (tv? internet? mail?) I really doubt he'll kill himself. Just that he needs to look out for others who might want to kill him, and if he is in some kind of protective custody, he will have a decent life. I think he has probably already switched it all around in his mind that one way or another it was all her fault.
ETA do convicted murderers in Colorado ever get conjugal visits? If so, he'll just marry someone with money, to bring him things and get his rocks off once in awhile. I see that in Peru, JVDS got married, either had a kid or is about to, and down there they have regular conjugal visits, even though being a convicted murderer. (Of a Peruvian lady, not Natalee).

I agree NuttMegg, if CW has the type of cell you describe in your last paragraph, his life would perhaps be satisfactory for him.
He really doesn't have to plan anything, as everything is done for him.
Being confined, will keep him safe.

 

[dixiegirl1035]

To me. and I think to most others, CW's words, behavior, and actions painted a very vivid picture. From his interactions with NUA when she was trying to find out if SW and the girls were okay, to the interviews, to his admissions of where and how he hid the bodies. his confession to adultery and even to his accusation against SW; all painted a picture of a liar and FA. We were not and are not a jury, so it was never a "rush to judgement", it was a logical assessment based on available facts and evidence. I, and many others, saw a progression of facts and evidence that pointed to one person being the murderer of all; CW! I, and many others, remained open minded, but asked for alternative facts and evidence that supported an alternative explanation. I never saw alternative facts and evidence. Now the truth has been revealed and there is no presumption of guilt, CW has admitted guilt. to everything! He was and is guilty. I have no apologies for my assessments, opinions, or position, because I wasn't judging a possibly innocent man guilty. I was
assessing, opining, and taking a position based on evidence and facts. I truly hope nothing like this ever happens again, because, like you, I find it profoundly disturbing and tragic.

One of the old features of this website was that we knew, by looking at a post immediately, how long the member was here. And for newbies, they may have not seen the signs and signals that we have seen in case after case after case. So a lot of times when I read folks who post, I wish I had that back to understand better that they are new people two murders and these awful things that we hear follow all the time. I think that we have experienced that they do not and it colors the way perhaps that other people perceive what they are posting?

For me, I know that I give a lot of leeway to new posters because they cannot fathom the things that we see all the time and we see quickly. Rather right or wrong, sometimes we go to what we have experienced in trials, and following many child and Annihilator cases.

 

[Thepoet]

I just saw another photo of Shanann, Bella, and Cece, and it broke my heart all over again! (upper, right hand side here) So bright, beautiful, and ALIVE, and now they're gone. CW stole them from all the people who loved and cared about them. CW is a murderer, thief, liar, adulterer, and monster. He also stole himself from the people who loved and/or cared about him, because he has been taken out of their lives and completely changed in their minds and hearts. So much damn sadness and damage and for what???

 

[liltexans]

Agree. I can't imagine anything regarding and/or involving the jury would not have been revealed years ago. MOO

This is the latest appellate document posted on Scott's family's website:

http://www.scottpetersonappeal.org/...reply_to_informal_response__filed_8-7-18_.pdf

The family is trying to appeal the case in multiple ways, per the court filing. Who knows if they will be successful? But they are currently trying.

 

[tmar]

There are lots of good recommendations here: https://www.websleuths.com/forums/forums/websleuths-book-club.66/

Thanks Pommy, I decided to make a note, of the many books recommended in the last few posts, when you provide this.
As usual, you are such an asset with all the info you continually provide, within the case, and so many related topics.
Thank you again.

 

[Zella]

But I also believe SW didn’t have a clue, and she was completely blindsided. I think her reality and her presentation of her life was completely genuine. She didn’t have a clue who she was married to.

SBM

I agree! I honestly think SW believed any problems in her marriage were the normal things that any couple experiences. I know she had mentioned suspicions but no confirmations about an affair (if I remember correctly), so I could see her, in the back of her mind, wondering if they'd divorce or separate if that was true. But I honestly don't think she had any inkling that she or her children were in actual physical danger from him.

 

[molly1255]

Will the State have given CW a psychiatric assessment before sentencing?

I really don't know the answer to that or whether it is even required of the State. Insanity or diminished capacity are defenses, from my understanding, and I believe it is up to the defense to argue this and psychiatric assessments are used when this is argued.

It doesn't appear that CW's defense used such a strategy when they negotiated the plea deal, or that they ever tried to use this as a bargaining chip. CW wasn't convicted in court, he admitted he was guilty to all original charges against him and entered into a plea arrangement that only took the death penalty off the table. My thoughts are that CW's defense had such an evaluation and it didn't show mental illness or diminished capacity.

I'm not an attorney and hopefully one will weight on this. I'm also very curious about whether CW has waived his right to any kind of appeal.

 

[liltexans]

Here's an old article about the SP jurors and the boat. The judge would not declare a mistrial at the time, but Scott's legal team and family are still appealing.

Peterson trial jury rocks the boat – East Bay Times

The third full day of deliberations began with a couple of jurors hopping inside Peterson’s fishing boat and rocking back and forth to test its stability, an action that incited defense attorney Mark Geragos to demand a mistrial.

“At least two of the jurors were rocking around, and when I say rocking, I mean rocking,” Geragos said in a brief hearing after the viewing of the boat. Geragos asked the judge to declare a mistrial or at least allow him to play for the jury a defense-produced video demonstration of the boat’s stability, previously barred as evidence. The defense contention is that the boat would have capsized if Scott Peterson, as prosecutors believe, had tried to dump his pregnant wife Laci’s 153-pound body into San Francisco Bay.

Judge Delucchi denied both requests.

During Monday’s viewing, Delucchi reminded the jury that the boat was not in the water, it was on a trailer, and that they should consider that fact in their deliberations.

Geragos said the jurors’ actions in the boat amounted to an “experiment,” which the law prohibits. They are to only use the evidence presented in court in their deliberations.