Found Deceased CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *CW GUILTY* #50

[Nikynoo]

I’m guessing that’s in your opinion, since you didn’t add that nor give substantial definitions of how they differ.......moo

Its my professional opinion too.

 

[Nikynoo]

If this was my child, there’d be nothing in the world that would be enough of an explanation for the murder of my grandkids. I understand relationship dynamics with spouses, infidelity etc. doesn’t lead to murder but I get it.

Murder my grandkids though. No words have ever been spoken that could provide understanding.

I agree, but I would want to know why and I believe that Cindy Watts wants to know why too. When she knows the why, she may be able to accept it.

 

[nwmouse]

I agree and IMO the most sensible post I've seen in the last day or so. The Watts' need closure too.

I certainly hope that the Watts' closure include a real apology to Shanann's family for what their son did.
moo

 

[Allabouttrial]

Its my professional opinion too.

Oh of course I forgot that.

 

[smucklecrumble]

What I cannot get my head around is how much entitlement Cindy thinks she should have. CW is a grown man. As an adult he isn’t entitled to have his mom present. The letter to the judge is even more shocking to me then her comments at interview. Who requests a judge to call them re a high profile murder case? It’s not like you’ve missed a parent teacher conference and need to reschedule. It’s mindboggling. IMO

 

[smucklecrumble]

I certainly hope that the Watts' closure include a real apology to Shanann's family for what their son did.
moo

I don’t think they need to apologise for what their son did, in terms of the fact that he is responsible for his own actions. It would, however be nice/appropriate if they did. I do think they need to issue an apology for the things said in their exclusive interviews. Especially after the DA stated “The spotlight that he tried to shine on Shanann, falsely and incorrectly - a flat out lie - has been corrected. The spotlight shines squarely on him”.

CWs parents tried to redirect that spotlight back onto Shanann and I find that most repugnant! MOO

ETA- with how much Cindy appeared to dislike SW I can’t see an apology coming. An apology would also require her to accept her sons actions and I can’t see her doing that either.

 

[Tigerlily75]

Respectfully I don’t think she’s willing to accept it. I do agree she needs to hear it all from her son. He doesn’t seem to want to tell her everything though. In fact it may even be a big reason he doesn’t want to go to trial. He may not want her to hear or know all that he’s done in his past and with this murder. I don’t blame her for wanting to talk to him but he’s a grown man and the courts can’t get involved because a grown man doesn’t want to talk to or discuss his case with his mother. Her lashing out on tv and having random people write letters to the judge is naive and not going to help her or CW. I think what people are feeling passionate about here is the fact that there is always some excuse for CW. First Shanann. Now the lawyers. It’s as if CW isn’t really responsible for anything and I guess it’s making people a little angry. And sad too.

This.

 

[bonjoviblonde]

I agree, but I would want to know why and I believe that Cindy Watts wants to know why too. When she knows the why, she may be able to accept it.

I understand that but I just don't think CW is ever going to say to his "Mom I killed them because I just wanted to be free" or whatever his reason is. I understand her wanting to know but I honestly don't think anything he says will satisfy her, because he's her child and also because she is determined to blame someone else for this tragedy. She is not to blame for CW actions and I'm sure she is devastated and rightly so however, the way she has handled herself as the mother of a murderer has been off putting. Even though she's not to blame, HER son murdered 4 human beings and she is coming across as more angry at the victims or even at the world than heart broken that a member of her family has committed such a horrible crime. That can't help but rub people the wrong way. I don't want to seem heartless for his family. He has ruined their lives and I honestly do feel bad that they will now have to live with what he's done forever. But I can feel sorry for them and also feel upset with them at the same time. JMO.

 

[Only4Justice]

RonsoI like turtles.
New
↑
Sadly, this can be the case with a parent and child. The poor child can't help it if they look or act like one parent. CW most likely felt the same about Bella and CeCe.
My MIL accused me of cheating on her son because my second child looks just like my side of the family, right down to being the only brunette in my gang of 6 (the 5 others being blonde like daddy). I'd bet my last dollar Cindy likely made the same accusations about CeCe, and probably Nico, too. (They couldn't deny Bella as Chris's child)

Sorry I am behind but wanted to comment on this post by @Ronso

My oldest son resembles my brother and always has. My ex said to me, what did you do sleep with your brother?” Ugh

 

[Nikynoo]

I understand that but I just don't think CW is ever going to say to her "Mom I killed them because I just wanted to be free" or whatever his reason is. I understand her wanting to know but I honestly don't think anything he says will satisfy her, because he's her child and also because she is determined to blame someone else for this tragedy. She is not to blame for CW actions and I'm sure she is devastated and rightly so however, the way she has handled herself as the mother of a murderer has been off putting. Even though she's not to blame, HER son murdered 4 human beings and she is coming across as more angry at the victims or even at the world than heart broken that a member of her family has committed such a horrible crime. That can't help but rub people the wrong way. I don't want to seem heartless for his family. He has ruined their lives and I honestly do feel bad that they will now have to live with what he's done forever. But I can feel sorry for them and also feel upset with them at the same time. JMO.

Agree with you.

 

[Tortoise]

Premeditation can also mean pre planned. Premeditation doesn’t have to mean a long term plan to kill someone or even a day of planning. It can be a minute. CW killed 3 people. He killed one person. Then moved on to the next then the next. Therefore “planned”. Premeditated. He intended to kill them.

Yes, but I would add;

Deliberation - a jury deliberates its verdict. fors and againsts; which side weighs heavier. Deliberating a murder is much the same thing. It is thought through and reflected upon coolly with ample time to change his mind and not do it. If that isn't a plan I don't know what a plan is. One cannot really reflect over sixty seconds whether or not to kill one's wife, and another sixty seconds whether or not to kill the children. I do not think that is at all what is meant in this case by deliberation and not acting in haste.

I do believe they know through the evidence that he plotted this for days. How many days is the question, because that means he is the worst type of murderer imaginable. Plotting his own children's deaths.

 

[Tigerlily75]

My first gut instinct in the beginning was that this was pre-planned. They usually are when the kids are killed too. I mean, why would he kill the kids?? Were they “abusive”? Were they “dangerous”? It makes no sense.

If this letter is real, that would be further evidence IMO. Reminds me of Chris Coleman sending those death threats to himself, or Jodi Arias forging a letter from Travis. To think this letter was the “big secret”, like it would exonerate him. Once again, he’s just like all the rest.

 

[Tortoise]

I do not believe Mrs Watts or Mr Watts or his sister during their allotted time would have been stopped from asking him if he wanted a new attorney. That doesn't involve discussing his culpability in the crimes.

 

[Tigerlily75]

I understand that but I just don't think CW is ever going to say to her "Mom I killed them because I just wanted to be free" or whatever his reason is. I understand her wanting to know but I honestly don't think anything he says will satisfy her, because he's her child and also because she is determined to blame someone else for this tragedy. She is not to blame for CW actions and I'm sure she is devastated and rightly so however, the way she has handled herself as the mother of a murderer has been off putting. Even though she's not to blame, HER son murdered 4 human beings and she is coming across as more angry at the victims or even at the world than heart broken that a member of her family has committed such a horrible crime. That can't help but rub people the wrong way. I don't want to seem heartless for his family. He has ruined their lives and I honestly do feel bad that they will now have to live with what he's done forever. But I can feel sorry for them and also feel upset with them at the same time. JMO.

Agree, and I would also add that expecting CW to be respectful to his mother is asking too much. This is a man who threw his own children in oil tanks. This is not a nice guy.

 

[Tortoise]

Its my professional opinion too.

Which profession is that?

It doesn't appear to be verified by WS, isn't that a requirement here to claim professionalism?

 

[MsBetsy]

Respectfully, she has not denied that her 'lout' of a son murdered Shan'ann. She can't believe or understand that he murdered the girls but is willing to accept it. This family needs to hear it from their son and they haven't. There could be a multitude of reasons why not. Shan'ann's family have said their piece and it was very powerful.

I did not get the impression from anything that she has said that she is willing to accept that her son killed the girls. She said that the lawyers basically cornered him into admitting it, and has given several examples to support that belief. She has implied that Shanann must have done something to cause all this, by insisting that she wants to know what the "trigger" could have been. She has said that she was dangerous. That she kept her son from his family. She claims they had a hard and abusive marraige. She is placing all the blame on Shanann and claims her son was a great guy until she came into his life. It seems obvious she is building a case against Shanann to shift the blame onto her and take it away from her son. This is exactly what he himself tried to do. It is one thing to be in denial but quite another to go on T V and tell the world what a horrible person the murder victim was. That is unacceptable, and in very poor taste. She would have done better to just keep quiet. Jmo

 

[smucklecrumble]

I did not get the impression from anything that she has said that she is willing to except that her son killed the girls. She said that the lawyers basically cornered him into admitting it, and has given several examples to support that belief. She has implied that Shanann must have done something to cause all this, by insisting that she wants to know what the "trigger" could have been. She has said that she was dangerous. That she kept her son from his family. She claims they had a hard and abusive marraige. She is placing all the blame on Shanann and claims her son was a great guy until she came into his life. It seems obvious she is building a case against Shanann to shift the blame onto her and take it away from her son. This is exactly what he himself tried to do. It is one thing to be in denial but quite another to go on T V and tell the world what a horrible person the murder victim was. That is unacceptable, and in very poor taste. She would have done better to just keep quiet. Jmo

Thank you! This was the point I was trying to make. By all appearances she doesn’t care what her son did as there are plenty of reasons, stated by her for it. She just wants him free and not to die in prison. Imo

 

[MsBetsy]

No, they haven't. They are victims too, they want to know why and they want their son to tell them why.

That is between them and their son. No-one else. It is not necessary to bash the victim publicly and tell the world why they think it's unfair. They are only making the situation worse for him and deeply hurting Shananns family and loved ones in the process. What kind of person does that? A very hateful and vindictive one, in my opinion.

 

[BelleIsle]

I feel so much for you Bellelsle
Going through your young years, in such a messy environment, not really being loved and treasured by your own mother.
You are so lucky to have a supportive and understanding husband.
I would think similarly in this case, we may later hear, Shan'ann had the support of her parents, brother and friends.
I certainly hope so.

Thank you for the kind and insightful post, @tmar . I feel fortunate that I was able to make sense of what I was subjected to, I can see how easy it would be to go through life believing this was normal behavior. I think that my mother loves me in her own way, but it's not in the unconditional way that I love my own family. Her love has more to do with how our relationship makes her feel, and not much to do with altruism or empathy. I'm making an excuse for her, and when it comes down to it, you are correct, I was not shown the type of love by my mother that most people would consider to be "love". I am lucky, but it took a few tries to find him. I also work very hard to be mindful of my words and actions toward my kids, I never want to them to feel like they can't reach me emotionally.

I wonder what Shan'ann's mom really feels about the way CW's mother treated Shan'ann. She raised a strong, independent daughter with a kind heart, I'm sure she sees through the BS.

And to the poster who said that CW might have been, in a way, replicating his relationship with his mom by marrying SW...I said earlier that he was confusing Drive (SW) with Control (mommy). But I do agree with you, this was the type of scenario he was comfortable in, he needed to be led. I also think that he secretly loved the fact that they moved so far from his parents, and to be able to let SW take the flack for it was fine by him. Mom obviously blames SW for CW pushing back even in small ways, any independent thought that he had would have been blamed on SW...I mean, don't we wonder how the parents are reacting to the male lover?! Clearly this would have been his own preference, nothing to do with SW's urging. I am sure the parents will remain in complete denial even if it turns out to be true. No way would Christopher do of his own free will anything that mommy would disapprove of.

So many mind games going on in that family, IMHO Shan'ann probably wanted to heal them at one point, she had a generous soul. You can't heal narcissistic, entwined, enmeshed families, even for an insider it's nearly impossible. They either need to want do it themselves or you have to cut ties. Shan'ann tried, unfortunately part of that damaged group came with her to CO but never really left NC behind.

 

[PrimeSuspect]

Good to know, thanks! Did they approve his request to seal it? I’m not sure if I ever heard.

Yes, they were sealed but maybe, they can be unsealed in the future? Idk.

NOTICE (C-19) REGARDING CONFIDENTIAL JAIL VISITORS LOGS

On September 24, 2018 this Court issued an Order (C-15) requiring the Weld County Sheriff’s Office to provide this Court with a sealed copy of jail visitor logs involving the defendant by the 10th day of each month. On October 10, 2018 the Court received and reviewed the contents of a sealed envelope containing jail visitor logs involving the defendant for the dates of August 16, 2018 through and including October 8, 2018.
https://www.courts.state.co.us/userfiles/file/Court_Probation/19th_Judicial_District/caseofinterest/2018CR2003/NOTICE C19 REGARDING CONFIDENTIAL JAIL VISITORS LOG.pdf