Found Deceased CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *CW GUILTY* #56

[UKslueth2018]

Longtime reader first time posting on this case. Is there a
Way to move quickly through the documents reading it on iPhone? It’s taking me foreverrrrrrr help

This case has me so torn not only for the brutal senseless lost lives by evil murder man and those precious babies were taken by their dad of all ppl...but bc I’m currently going thru a situation where my spouse had affair told the side piece he’s separated...even after i texted emailed her she still doesn’t get he’s married with three kids and not divorcing. The fact that i cd be living with a monster too is driving me insane. One never knows

It gives me the option to open it in iBooks.. Usually at to right hand side when you open page..

 

[scdiv]

Page 1206 - When they they "found" SW's phone, CW says it had been turned off. Not battery died. But powered off.

I think he was with NUA and police when they gave her phone to police. And I mentioned in another post, superstar NUA knew the passcode when CW claimed he did not.

 

[MsBetsy]

Well, I made it through 1,642 pages and hyper-scrolled quickly through the rest and came across the text/search records--read those and will go back to 1,643+ later. Is there anyplace where the audiotapes, videotapes and pictures referenced in here are posted? That's consumed all my time since they were released so I haven't kept up w/the thread. If I repeat points made earlier by others I apologize.

Thought summary:

1) I was bracing myself to read some unexpected dirt about Shanann but there really wasn't anything other than crap her inlaws said. It made me sad to see how much she was hurting her last few weeks and even sadder to see she had an unfounded ray of hope at the end.

2) Nutgate was real. And I honestly believe the inlaw's reaction were one of the causal factors for him killing SW. And I think Daddy Watts had more of an (albeit probably indirect) influence on CWs decision than Mama Watts did. Mr Watts interview summary, his side of the "Chris and Daddy" pre-confession conversation, reading how he behaved after nutgate and that comment on Sunday 8/12 asking CW if he could facetime w/the girls (then answering his own question and saying "no. Bella would probably tell Shanann would have a fit"). Mama Watts still is no saint--that conversation w/Chris' friend in California alone was damning. But texts between CW and SW show the "wedge" Nutgate created was between CW and his Dad, more than Mom. (Me thinks the Mommy-wedge ship had long since sailed).

3) Sorry, but I no longer have any sympathy for NK at all. After reading the texts to her friend saying she didn't think she wanted to marry someone w/kids I think there's a good chance she was a significant reason he killed the girls. She denies ever saying anything like that to CW but I don't believe her. Even if it's true she probably gave off vibes to that effect. While her internet searches and graphic texts to her girlfriend didn't endear me to her, to each their own. Same with the sexy selfies (though they did make me question her judgment). I still had some sympathy left for her until I saw the Amber Frey searches (i.e. book deal)--what a greedy *****! I don't mind if she's shaking in her boots knowing that her texts and searches are publicly available.

4) Though I expected to see some, there wasn't much evidence that the murders were pre-planned. But there are things that support premeditation IMO. When he met his co-worker Friday, CW saying he would head to the work site for him on Monday. The timing of NK's message to her friend saying she didn't want a guy w/kids and probability she communicated it to CW directly or indirectly. CW searching for apts for him and the girls w/NK then no longer appearing to be interested in finding one that final weekend.

5) I still think the girls were killed before SW got home--when SW asked him to send her pictures of the girls that afternoon he sent her real-time shots, but when she asked again at 7:46 p.m. he only sent her pictures from earlier in the day.

6) Time after time I saw things that made me realize CW is even stupider than I thought. Too many to try to mention. Not the least of which is not getting a lawyer before all those interviews, searches and the lie detector test.

7) If there was any doubt in my mind that CW might be slightly remorseful and not a complete monster, the doubt was removed when I saw his search for Metallica's "Battery" lyrics the day after he killed them. Have you read the lyrics?

8) The letters he's receiving in jail are frightening and made me want to puke.

9) I'm sorry. Apparently I was wrong when I said NUA saw the neighbor's videotape before calling the police. Was also wrong about CW and SW not discussing sale of the house--though is anyone else wondering if CW sent the email message from SW's account?. She didn't use email much--seems she would have just texted and somewhere in the 2,000 pages it was established she didn't use her computer very often.

Can't wait to get back in the thread and read everyone else's thoughts.

Wow, I have been waiting to see some indication that NK did not want to be with a man who had kids, and you found it! I'm sure that played a role.
And you are right, just when he thought he couldn't be any more stupid, here we are finding so many more examples of his idiocy. He did a pretty good job at playing human for a while.
Also, what is Nutgate? I read hundreds of pages, but did not see a reference to that.
I saw the text messages between Shanann and others about the ice cream incident. It's pretty clear the ice cream contained nuts, although the VI who talked about the incident kept saying things like, " there were no nuts on the table, or " there were no nuts in the icecream." She was so vague and misleading and it's unfortunate that it led to so much speculation about what a liar and terrible person Shanann must be. I never believed it, along with most, but it certainly caused alot of tension. They were obviously very close to the family since the attitude is very much the same as we have witnessed from them. If she was truly also friends with Shanann she certainly didn't empathise with what she must have known she was going through. It's such a shame but I'm so glad everything has been cleared up and we all know what kind of person Shanann was and what kind of monster her husband is.

 

[Colorado303]

Wow, I have been waiting to see some indication that NK did not want to be with a man who had kids, and you found it! I'm sure that played a role.
And you are right, just when he thought he couldn't be any more stupid, here we are finding so many more examples of his idiocy. He did a pretty good job at playing human for a while.
Also, what is Nutgate? I read hundreds of pages, but did not see a reference to that.
I saw the text messages between Shanann and others about the ice cream incident. It's pretty clear the ice cream contained nuts, although the VI who talked about the incident kept saying things like, " there were no nuts on the table, or " there were no nuts in the icecream." She was so vague and misleading and it's unfortunate that it led to so much speculation about what a liar and terrible person Shanann must be. I never believed it, along with most, but it certainly caused alot of tension. They were obviously very close to the family since the attitude is very much the same as we have witnessed from them. If she was truly also friends with Shanann she certainly didn't empathise with what she must have known she was going through. It's such a shame but I'm so glad everything has been cleared up and we all know what kind of person Shanann was and what kind of monster her husband is.

“Nutgate” is the ice-cream w/nuts incident. It’s nicknamed that because CW’s family denied it ever happened and used it as an example of how unreasonable SW was.

 

[gitana1]

I am wondering if in Colorado one partner can file for divorce on their own without the cooperation of the other partner? If that is indeed possible, CW could have walked out on his family and filed for divorce. Obviously he would have had to pay child support so the motive may be partly financial, and partly to save face - it does not look good to walk out on your pregnant wife. Little did he know he would be caught so quickly and look 100 times worse by annihilating his family.

In every state someone can file for and obtain a divorce without agreement or cooperation from the other side. Definitely in CO.

 

[Loveallmyhorsesdogsandcats]

Those

“Nutgate” is the ice-cream w/nuts incident. It’s nicknamed that because CW’s family denied it ever happened and used it as an example of how unreasonable SW was.

Those people are horrid, to treat your grandchild like sh$t because you don’t like their mother, no words

 

[MsBetsy]

I've never done any such thing. You can report any post you consider offensive.

Also, to be fair, we had no idea of the facts that we know of now. NK is certainly no angel, and she was not forthcoming in her interviews with investigators or to the media. She certainly would not have said, " yes, we had a sordid affair that was purely sexual and I always knew he was lying about his marriage. But the sex was awesome! What could I do?"
Whatever her motives were, the fact remains that she had no knowledge or even assumption that he was capable of murder. There would have been evidence of that. She may be a fool and a liar, but I believe there is no way she could have anticipated what was to come.

 

[Loveallmyhorsesdogsandcats]

NK would have been much better off just to owning up to knowingly dating a married man with a pregnant wife. Any good PR rep will tell you to own your actions, apologize, take the heat till it dies down but don’t add more fuel to the fire by lies.

 

[JudgeJudi]

She may be a fool and a liar, but I believe there is no way she could have anticipated what was to come.

I never said she did.

 

[MsBetsy]

“Nutgate” is the ice-cream w/nuts incident. It’s nicknamed that because CW’s family denied it ever happened and used it as an example of how unreasonable SW was.

Got it! Thanks. I missed that somehow.

 

[ReckoningDay]

I've just gotten to the fan mail.

Letter after letter after letter calling Chris "sweetie" and cutesy hearts and photos and hashtags like #soooocute and #chrisisinnocent and offering to send him money... just what on earth is wrong with people?? Just nauseating.

Every single one of the women who wrote to him need intensive therapy.

Agree! In fact I will go a step further and say that anyone who is still defending him is mentally defective and unstable.

 

[gitana1]

I finished reading the phone convo section. Just as gitana1 wrote out the lyrics to a song in an earlier comment (threads ago) this is what CW did after disposing of his family. Gitana, You were so accurate it is amazing.

Someone said he was a shell of a person, exactly. He had to Google how to love & how to write a love letter, had to supply the words for that letter with lyrics from songs, he completely became the image of whoever his partner wanted him to be, their interests became his facade.

I said earlier that Shan'ann, because of her kind heart, might have tried to fix that "family", CW's family, and she did. She tried so hard! CW and his parents are vile, they tried to squash her emotionally and when they couldn't they rallied around to bash her with their words. They are despicable.

To Shan'ann's family, I am so sorry that they ever had access to your daughter and grand babies. They seem to feel zero remorse or culpability for the way they treated them. I think that all of us here wish that we could have kept Shan'ann and her children safe, you must wish this too, but don't carry that load, please. She was up against something that could not have been foreseen, not by people who think logically and have real emotions, like love and compassion, empathy. CW is defective, his family structure is defective, they don't see reality in the way that normal people do. Shan'ann did the right thing by pushing back and trying to get them to change, no one could know how all of this was adding up in CW's sadistic brain.

I am going to go against the idea that we cannot ever predict these things. If we think normally and as people with well-formed identities and healthy emotions, we cannot. But, if we have enough guidance to tell us what signs to look for in the families that we conjoin with our own, maybe we can begin to understand that we cannot always make excuses for the irrational behavior of others. Maybe we can show our kids to really listen to and obey their inner voice that tells them: You are not being valued, this could get worse very quickly, it's ok to walk away, NOW. It might help in certain instances. I don't know how else to defend against this type of enmeshment.
Kind people are born to be kind, like Shan'ann. People who are used to this type of emotional abuse are sometimes more tolerant of it in their (ex, ha) spouse, like myself (not anymore). There are so very many people who sociopaths and narcissists can manipulate. It sucks.

No "normal" person assumes their spouse will do this, but after reading all of these pages and pages of texts I can tell you that if I had a brother with personality defects, I would provide that safe space for his wife and kids. I would be the one to say, you know, if it doesn't seem ok, let me help you, you could be very right about my brother, maybe you aren't safe with him. Recognizing the personality traits of these disorders is the first step for immediate family members. Usually at least one of us sees that our family is messed the heck up! We need to open our heart to this idea, and even if we don't see it in ourselves (narcissism, sociopathy) we need to be open to what our kids tell us about ourselves.

There will always be the wild card, the person who annihilates their family in broad daylight, but it seems like those are less common (educate me; are they?). I don't know, Websleuths people, how else do we protect our children and grandchildren from this? CW's parents are so typical of this type of familial disorder, even the nuts incident rang true for what I have seen of my own parents. I think extended family needs to step up at some point and do as much as they can to shed light on the dynamics that are destroying lives. CW was at fault for his own actions. Maybe we can make it obvious who the CW's of the world are if we speak up.

I dated someone once who had a very sweet mother. I was initially impressed by their strong bond. Then I started to see what I now know was intensive enmeshment. My mom saw it one day and actually thought there was something sick there. She didn't tell me until later.

But I saw the enmeshment. The woman was a severe alcoholic. She knew to be very kind and sweet to me. But she also seemed to want to take me for herself. Make me hers instead of my mom's. I can't really explain what that means but I saw that.

One day as I was pulling up to this person's house, I got what can only be described as a gut punch. It was the strongest gut instinct I ever felt in my life. I actually felt it in my stomach.

Something was wrong. I knew it. It was so powerful I had to communicate it to the person I was dating and we broke up.

Best decision of my life.

 

[GoneGoldfishin']

Can I just say “I told you so” now? A few threads ago I was damn near crucified for expressing my OPINION that NK was not a 100% victim and was more self serving then she’s coming across...

You can tell it to me. I was one who believed her lies. She makes me want to vomit now.

 

[Colorado303]

Got it! Thanks. I missed that somehow.

There was a lot of contentious posts about it fairly early in the investigation and the mods said it we could no longer mention it. I’m assuming now that there is so much mention of it in documents it’s OK to discuss again. Mods, if I’m wrong please delete original post and let us know.

 

[MsBetsy]

I never said she did.

I was just pointing out that she didn't play a roll in the murder as she did not anticipate that he could do something like murdering his family. She is innocent of this crime. I wasn't trying to imply that someone suggested she knew about it. Just that even though she may be a terrible person, she was not involved in the actual crime. Even though he may have wanted to eliminate his family because he wanted to be with her. That's all I'm trying to say. What matters most to me
in the end is that Chris Watts alone is responsible. Imo

 

[molly1255]

Also, to be fair, we had no idea of the facts that we know of now. NK is certainly no angel, and she was not forthcoming in her interviews with investigators or to the media. She certainly would not have said, " yes, we had a sordid affair that was purely sexual and I always knew he was lying about his marriage. But the sex was awesome! What could I do?"
Whatever her motives were, the fact remains that she had no knowledge or even assumption that he was capable of murder. There would have been evidence of that. She may be a fool and a liar, but I believe there is no way she could have anticipated what was to come.

I haven't gotten to it yet, and might not today, but someone back-thread indicated somewhere in the doc dump is stated NK was looking at wedding dresses online.

Physical - oh my, yes! Emotional - I believe so.

 

[ReckoningDay]

I'm not so sure.

Trinket mentioned SW calling CW a skater boy when they first met as an example of verbal abuse in a post in September. Cindy Watts ended up telling the same story about the skater boy comment in an interview in November.

I guess I'm abusive too. I look at pics of my hubby from the 80s and laughingly tell him he looks like he came right off That 70s Show.

 

[esayer]

First mention of CW crying,

CHRIS said he was sorry and started to cry. CHRIS asked us not to think anything less of him.

Really Chris? For crying? Is this why he never cries? Toxic masculinity or?

CHRIS said he could not have his co-workers show us out to the oil well site because they were Must going to
form their own opinions about him 3once they figure everything out. ́

So worried about what others think...

 

[MsBetsy]

There was a lot of contentious posts about it fairly early in the investigation and the mods said it we could no longer mention it. I’m assuming now that there is so much mention of it in documents it’s OK to discuss again. Mods, if I’m wrong please delete original post and let us know.

I think it's fine to discuss it now. We know the facts. What I think caused all the tension is the fact that we were mislead, as I stated in my post. We now know the truth. Imo

 

[bestill]

What page is the conversation between Chris and his dad at the police dept?