GUILTY CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *CW LWOP* #68

[Nessa131]

Agree. Yet I am a bit nervous for Shanann's loved one's

I’m sure they got to see and hear it all (unlike the radicated version we will get) the day it happened or shortly after. They have made sure they knew stuff long before the public so they could prepare themselves. And rightfully so!

 

[mrjitty]

Unfortunately, the EVIDENCE released does not back up any claim of coercion. It solely points to CW as the only murderer in the house. Can't argue with the facts. Or do you suggest evidence was tampered with as well to convict this man in a high profile case? Amazing then his actions and behavior following the murders dovetailed perfectly with someone who lacked any empathy or pain at all if someone else indeed murdered his children. MOO.

There remains a conspiracy theory that he pled to everything to save NK

Why the DA would offer such a deal remains far from obvious

 

[Ilovemy3boys]

A coerced guilty plea is a violation of rights. It has happened in the past and our system of justice won't tolerate it. What doesn't happen often is for three law enforcement agencies to send officers to another state to interview someone who has already been sentenced.

JMO

Deputy Denies Coercion of Beatrice 6 | Beatrice News Channel

Gage County will appeal Beatrice 6 ruling to US Supreme Court

There has been no evidence of coercion in the case of CW

 

[NuttMegg]

This guy is in some ways a simpleton, and in other ways complex.

It wouldn’t surprise me if even though he has something broken in him empathy-wise, he is still capable of some kind of intellectual empathy—and/or his wish to be seen as a “good guy” actually wins out here. Meaning that he believes a good guy confesses his sins, the way some churchgoers testify before the congregation, and he needs to do that to ease his internal strain.

I tend to agree with that. During the interrogations, after he had broken and confessed to his father and then to the agents, he was extremely concerned about what his co-workers were going to think, and there was quite a long discussion as to whether or not he was a nice guy (maybe the word was decent, but same thing). The agents (who unlike me apparently did not feel like applying a baseball bat) said yes, he was a nice guy, etc, while he was bawling away, finally finding some tears inside when the tears were for his own situation. I sure don't know how the normal interrogation goes, but I think the "two Chrises" angle really worked in his case. Where IMO it was kind of smaltzy.

Aside from the above, I will always credit Graham Coder for his poker face while Chris was mostly non-chalantly telling them he threw the girls in the oil tanks. It seemed like Coder missed only half a beat before continuing the questioning as to how a person could get them out of the tanks. (I couldn't see Tammy's face at that moment).

 

[mrjitty]

I tend to agree with that. During the interrogations, after he had broken and confessed to his father and then to the agents, he was extremely concerned about what his co-workers were going to think, and there was quite a long discussion as to whether or not he was a nice guy. The agents (who unlike me apparently did not feel like applying a baseball bat) said yes, he was a nice guy, etc, while he was bawling away, finally finding some tears inside when the tears were for his own situation. I sure don't know how the normal interrogation goes, but I think the "two Chrises" angle really worked in his case. Where IMO it was kind of smaltzy.

Aside from the above, I will always credit Graham Coder for his poker face while Chris was mostly non-chalantly telling them he threw the girls in the oil tanks. It seemed like Coder missed only half a beat before continuing the questioning as to how a person could get them out of the tanks.

"two Chrises" was amazing - i wonder if it is a standard thing or Coder invented it on the fly?

 

[MyBelle]

IIRC after the plea bargain is accepted, the conviction takes place.

What, in your opinion causes you to suspect that there is a concern his pleas may have been coerced?

I could be wrong. We'll have to see what comes out on the 7th.

 

[NuttMegg]

"two Chrises" was amazing - i wonder if it is a standard thing or Coder invented it on the fly?

I have never been in trouble with the law, but I still think I would have rolled my eyes a bit if I had been the one being questioned.

 

[PommyMommy]

A coerced guilty plea is a violation of rights. It has happened in the past and our system of justice won't tolerate it. What doesn't happen often is for three law enforcement agencies to send officers to another state to interview someone who has already been sentenced.

JMO

Deputy Denies Coercion of Beatrice 6 | Beatrice News Channel

Gage County will appeal Beatrice 6 ruling to US Supreme Court

All that hogwash about him being coerced began with the interviews of his parents who he purposely left out of HIS decision. That was followed by the ridiculous letter claiming CW was coerced, sent to the judge by some nutjob from a podcast whose name escapes me at the moment. (Name is something similar to a candy bar, I think?)

Anyway, CW's parents were shown evidence just prior to his sentencing and at his sentencing, they condemned his crimes and did not ask the judge for leniency.

If you read the articles I posted upthread, you'll find that law enforcement agencies were involved in many of the "late confessions." It's not unusual at all. There are so many more examples - I just grabbed a few.

MOO

 

[Only4Justice]

As I stated, there would be no special tax bill.

Justice involves attempts at closure for the victims' families. I hate that word because for these families the matter will never be closed. They will suffer the rest of their lives. But having answers to some questions is important. Hence some family members will actually go to the prisons years later to try to talk to the perps. Questions haunt them.

The murder of two beautiful little girls and their pregnant mama by the one they all trusted with their lives is no small thing for these investigators. They carry these cases with them. The cases disrupt their personal lives for some time as they work them. They go home and look at their own babies and it's hard.

You bet they'd want to hear more if they hadn't heard enough. They'd do it for the family. That's part of justice.

As you can see, society has in interest in getting answers as well. That's also part of justice.

I know some are intent on making the villainess NK a murderer and co-conspirator too. But nothing about this indicates to me that she has anything to do with this. For me, it has to do with passion for one's work, a desire to seek justice for the families and an intent to do a good job.

Best post ever. Thanks @gitana1

 

[NuttMegg]

All that hogwash about him being coerced began with the interviews of his parents who he purposely left out of HIS decision. That was followed by the ridiculous letter claiming CW was coerced, sent to the judge by some nutjob from a podcast whose name escapes me at the moment. (Name is something similar to a candy bar, I think?)

Anyway, CW's parents were shown evidence just prior to his sentencing and at the sentencing condemned his crimes and did not ask the judge for leniency.

If you read the articles I posted upthread, you'll find that law enforcement agencies were involved in many of the "late confessions." It's not unusual at all. There are so many more examples - I just grabbed a few.

MOO

Lol looks like CW is STILL not including his parents in his decisions. At least not his father, and I doubt he's talked to Mom for a long time.

 

[NuttMegg]

All that hogwash about him being coerced began with the interviews of his parents who he purposely left out of HIS decision. That was followed by the ridiculous letter claiming CW was coerced, sent to the judge by some nutjob from a podcast whose name escapes me at the moment. (Name is something similar to a candy bar, I think?)

Anyway, CW's parents were shown evidence just prior to his sentencing and at the sentencing condemned his crimes and did not ask the judge for leniency.

If you read the articles I posted upthread, you'll find that law enforcement agencies were involved in many of the "late confessions." It's not unusual at all. There are so many more examples - I just grabbed a few.

MOO

He didn't do it anyway, it was her fault for being bossy. When he plead guilty he wasn't really confessing. If he was really confessing it was only referring to murdering SW. He really wasn't convicted of anything, and if he was, if wasn't fair because he was coerced. Seen it all on the podcasts, heard it all, can't wait until it's over.

 

[Best of What's Around]

I tend to agree with that. During the interrogations, after he had broken and confessed to his father and then to the agents, he was extremely concerned about what his co-workers were going to think, and there was quite a long discussion as to whether or not he was a nice guy (maybe the word was decent, but same thing). The agents (who unlike me apparently did not feel like applying a baseball bat) said yes, he was a nice guy, etc, while he was bawling away, finally finding some tears inside when the tears were for his own situation. I sure don't know how the normal interrogation goes, but I think the "two Chrises" angle really worked in his case. Where IMO it was kind of smaltzy.

Aside from the above, I will always credit Graham Coder for his poker face while Chris was mostly non-chalantly telling them he threw the girls in the oil tanks. It seemed like Coder missed only half a beat before continuing the questioning as to how a person could get them out of the tanks.

Yes, I had the same thoughts watching the confession and interrogation...how was this line of you are a truthteller and a protector of women working? They know their psychology. I would have told them to stop insulting my intelligence. They knew he was not that bright and his weak point was how he is perceived, even by the agents. It was a lesson in psychology to watch!

 

[MsBetsy]

A coerced guilty plea is a violation of rights. It has happened in the past and our system of justice won't tolerate it. What doesn't happen often is for three law enforcement agencies to send officers to another state to interview someone who has already been sentenced.

JMO

Deputy Denies Coercion of Beatrice 6 | Beatrice News Channel

Gage County will appeal Beatrice 6 ruling to US Supreme Court

Didn't Lambert state that during his interview he felt that Watts was not contesting the lawsuit and seemed to be admitting liability?
That doesn't sound to me like he feels as if he was coerced. It sounds like he is finally admitting he is responsible for his actions. Imo

 

[MyBelle]

No, he was convicted. A guilty plea results in a conviction.

There are a vast number of possibilities as to why CW is talking now and that his plea was coerced is about the least likely among them. Here are some examples of people who have confessed their crimes after conviction, and their reasons behind doing so.

Convicted murderer requests Xbox before leading police to wife's body 8 years later
A man serving life behind bars for his wife's murder led police on Monday to where he buried her body in Michigan eight years ago, after requesting an Xbox and other prison privileges, authorities said.

Man confesses to 1993 murder in emotional TV interview before turning himself in to police
A California man gave a dramatic TV interview Tuesday confessing to a 1993 murder before going to a police station to turn himself in.

Hawkins said he found "God and Christ and these things that have happened over the course of 25 years have pushed me and pushed me to do the right thing."

He Says He Got Away With 90 Murders. Now He’s Confessing to Them All.
Part of Mr. Little’s impetus for talking now, investigators say, is that he seems to prefer the Ector County jail to the noisy, often chaotic environment of a Los Angeles County prison.

Man convicted of killing a rival community activist finally confesses
A man who pleaded innocent to the murder of a rival community activist, but was later convicted, has now confessed 14 years later.

But Santiago said he's embraced his Catholic faith as a prisoner and feels compelled to come clean. "I'm a different person because of my faith in God," he said. "A life bit (sentence) is nothing compared to eternity in hell."

Hear convicted killer Scott Wynne finally confess to 1995 killing of Allegan County farmer
Wynne, in a five-page letter intended for the victim’s family, and in a 90-minute recorded interview with police, admitted that he shot and killed Timmerman, angry that Timmerman had leased farmland from Wynne's mother that Wynne considered his own.

Wynne’s statements were contained in a letter, obtained by The Grand Rapids Press and MLive under a Freedom of Information Act request, in which he said he wanted to offer a personal apology to the Timmerman family as part of a “Victim-Offender Dialogue.”

Handyman admits to killing at least 8 Mass. women
Gaynor insisted for years that he was innocent, even after his first four murder convictions in 2000. It was only after the 2006 death of his 67-year-old mother, a woman described as his family's matriarch and one of his strongest supporters, that he admitted he was a rapist and killer.

He told police and prosecutors in a 2008 interview that he kept quiet until after her death because he "just couldn't destroy everything she believed in."

ETA: MOO

I meant CW's entered his guilty pleas without going to trial. He never confessed to the murders of the girls.

The cases you cite aren't similar.

JMO

 

[Best of What's Around]

I could be wrong. We'll have to see what comes out on the 7th.

Thank you. I think everyone should never be afraid to admit when they are wrong. So you are saying if he confesses you won't think that was coerced as well? I believe some will always think so. MOO.

 

[PommyMommy]

He didn't do it anyway, it was her fault for being bossy. When he plead guilty he wasn't really confessing. If he was really confessing it was only referring to murdering SW. He really wasn't convicted of anything, and if he was, if wasn't fair because he was coerced. Seen it all on the podcasts, heard it all, can't wait until it's over.

Right?! Please don't make me go through that insanity again!!!
MOO

 

[NuttMegg]

Yes, I had the same thoughts watching the confession and interrogation...how was this line of you are a truthteller and a protector of women working? They know their psychology. I would have told them to stop insulting my intelligence. They knew he was not that bright and his weak point was how he is perceived, even by the agents. It was a lesson in psychology to watch!

It certainly was. And the one about his really knowing what was inside their day packs....he was a real father, not a fake one who couldn't begin to say what to pack for day care. (Somehow he couldn't explain where the blankies and toys ended up, though....said they were left by SW). What's amazing is that they didn't have a lot of time to analyze him before choosing/applying all those thruthteller, 2 Chris, keeping them warm, angles. And they had to somehow know he wasn't going to walk or demand a lawyer. I can't think of any more superlatives for them, I am so impressed.

It was a little funny when Coder tried the tack of saying he thought SW had been the one planning on leaving, CW said, manhood threatened, "I wouldn't have thought that". Imbecile.

 

[PommyMommy]

I meant CW's entered his guilty pleas without going to trial. He never confessed to the murders of the girls.

The cases you cite aren't similar.

JMO

He didn't confess in the interview room, no. But, by way of his guilty plea, he admitted that he murdered the girls.

Regarding the articles I posted, I think you missed my point. It has nothing to do with the cases being similar. You're right, they're not and weren't meant to be. The purpose of the examples is to point out the various reasons why convicted murderers have later come forward with truthful confessions.

MOO

 

[MyBelle]

All that hogwash about him being coerced began with the interviews of his parents who he purposely left out of HIS decision. That was followed by the ridiculous letter claiming CW was coerced, sent to the judge by some nutjob from a podcast whose name escapes me at the moment. (Name is something similar to a candy bar, I think?)

Anyway, CW's parents were shown evidence just prior to his sentencing and at his sentencing, they condemned his crimes and did not ask the judge for leniency.

If you read the articles I posted upthread, you'll find that law enforcement agencies were involved in many of the "late confessions." It's not unusual at all. There are so many more examples - I just grabbed a few.

MOO

There's a good reason three law enforcement agencies traveled to interview CW.

If you want to believe the reason is because CW wants to give a "late confession" to crimes which he's already been sentenced, that's up to you but I don't believe that is the reason.

JMO

 

[MsBetsy]

I meant CW's entered his guilty pleas without going to trial. He never confessed to the murders of the girls.

The cases you cite aren't similar.

JMO

I think they are all relevant because they involve confessions to murder after a trial has already taken place.
In other words, the killer is finally taking accountability whereas he may not have at the time of his conviction. Imo

 

[Only4Justice]

Excellent post. I agree. We can't test anything he says but if he is being truthful it's likely a God thing.

The dominant person theory is very interesting. Like he became so cast adrift in prison without a strong personality to anchor to.

I'm sure he will eventually find all types of dominant characters he can join up with. I wonder what his personality will be like.

We could attribute this to KB too. For anyone following that horrible crime.