CO - Tim Watkins, 61, shot to death, Mount Herman, 14 Sept 2017 #1

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  • #81
Probably because of the hysteria of social media which would affect any trial for any charges.
You're right but there would have to be a trial. ATM it looks like there will be a plea deal so no trial there. They announced there were similarities then sealed everything. If as you say ballistics and forensics clear him and he doesn't get charged with TW's murder then there will be no trial to even be prejudiced. It will end there and Co LE will hopefully announce further information at some point.
 
  • #82
I have found his photo in several MSM articles but have been trying to link them and my phone just hangs up. If you google " Edward Lyles sex on the beach" many articles come up. His mug photo does have some similarities with the most recent mug of DN IMO.

BBM - I don't know how you come up with these sites to begin with, but your instructions worked like a charm. I had to "read fast" as I got knocked offline three times.

I did notice that EL's partner-in-crime in May, 2016 was a different woman than the one referred to as his common-law-wife at the time of his death in Jan., 2017.
 
  • #83
BBM - I don't know how you come up with these sites to begin with, but your instructions worked like a charm. I had to "read fast" as I got knocked offline three times.

I did notice that EL's partner-in-crime in May, 2016 was a different woman than the one referred to as his common-law-wife at the time of his death in Jan., 2017.
I just googled his name and it came up. I didn't watch the you tube though just read the MSM articles. Yes I noticed it was a different woman.
 
  • #84
mmmmm...... I suppose enough so he could have tried to use his ID. But how would he have obtained it? Would authorities have mailed Lyles things to next of kin? Is DN his closest next of kin? Still seems to me tho that just stealing someone's ID fits this best. I wonder if we will find out.
He has not really had a way for anyone to mail to him. He didn't know about his death till they were looking to get out of dodge. Since he was aware that his brother's death was well known it isn't likely he would have used his ID. And I think HH his gf was in FL.
 
  • #85
There is not a scintilla of evidence to suggest that a hatchet was used in the murder of TW, Abby, Libby, or the woman that is missing but apparently presumed dead. The attempts to connect DN to all of these crimes borders on hysteria and at the very best, is irrational as it is neither founded on fact or evidence.

There is not a scintilla of evidence to suggest that DN is connected to any of the murders or the missing woman. Yes, LE stated that he is a POI in the Delphi case but EVERYONE is a POI until the case is solved.

LE has DNA from DN and the crime scene. If DN's DNA matched that from the crime scene, LE would not be on the DrP show to generate more leads that they have to follow up on. LE isn't looking for busy work. It doesn't work that way.

Tim Watkins was shot a few times IIRC. He was apparently a gentle and kind man, well-liked by many people and murdered on a popular trail while he biked alone. We know little else of him, his life, his group of friends, his history. We do not know if he had enemies and nice people can have enemies that they don't even know about.

This may have been a random act by a crazy person, it may have been a score being settled, it may have been a scorned lover - we do not know. LE hasn't made any announcements about the investigation and you can be sure that the ballistics have been performed on the bullets that killed TW and the rifle that KN owned. Fingerprints will tell who held the rifle and even if both DN's and KN's prints were on it, LE would announce "we have the murder weapon and 2 suspects". If they found no prints, they would announce "we have the murder weapon".

They haven't. And, until they do can we please stop pinning every unsolved crime on DN? What is happening here is backwards, starting with a selected person and trying to fit facts to him. It gets us no where.

This is my opinion.

I am not pinning anything on DN but I hold that a hatchet may very well be the weapon LE are keeping under wraps. Yes it is my opinion but I have every right to express it here as just that. Moo. Yes I could be wrong. Time will tell. I am neither hysterical nor irrational. If you have some proof of DN's innocence you should alert LE. Until we learn more, I can only surmise.It is MOO!!! I DO look forward to more info coming out so we can know at last the truth and I DO hope that ultimately justice will prevail.
 
  • #86
You're right but there would have to be a trial. ATM it looks like there will be a plea deal so no trial there. They announced there were similarities then sealed everything. If as you say ballistics and forensics clear him and he doesn't get charged with TW's murder then there will be no trial to even be prejudiced. It will end there and Co LE will hopefully announce further information at some point.

Sorry IDK how to snip quotes...re: "plea" I wonder if MS still in El Paso jail & will he ever cross paths with DN ?
 
  • #87
Apologies in advance, I didn't realize I had typed so much.
RE: location of TW's bike, shoes and his body. There are two areas that were mentioned, Mt Herman Rd and Red Rocks, and the Limbaugh trail. If you go to the link below there is a small press conference (2nd video, scroll down) with Jacqueline Kirby, Media Relations Mgr for El Paso County Sheriff's Office. I've transcribed beginning from about 3:05 mark:

Reporter: When you're talking about the trail, we know there were some items that were found in two different places. Is there a specific time on, er, a specific place on that weekend, near Mount Herman or the Limbaugh Trail that you guys are wanting people to kind of refresh their memories of exactly (inaudible then J Kirby responds)
JK: You know any, any piece of that area, um whether it's down at Mt Herman Road and Red Rocks or up by the Limbaugh Trail, there's multiple trail heads up there, so any, anywhere in that vicinity we would be interested in.
http://www.kktv.com/content/news/Death-investigation-on-Mount-Herman-Road-445133403.html

Next I'm going to a different article that says:
"Making the story even stranger, the shoe was found directly on Mount Herman Road, but the bike was found a little ways off the trail, Hayden said. There's been no other sign of Watkins for four days...“It’s going to be an extensive process due to the terrain that they have to travel in order to get to where the body is, process the scene and get back out. Because where they are there is also no cell or radio service, which only adds to the time that it will take to process the scene.”
http://www.kktv.com/content/news/Se...in-biker-missing-since-Sept-14-445114943.html

This link describes the Limbaugh Trail and has a map and Virtual Tour. (The tour is interesting and short.) : https://www.trailrunproject.com/trail/7006923
Description of trail: "This is a challenging singletrack trail behind Mount Herman through Limbaugh Valley. The trail starts off Mount Herman Rd. From the start point, the trail immediately heads up several steep, gravely climbs of >10%. The trail then continues to climb up to a ridge before dropping into Limbaugh Valley after a series of narrow switchbacks and traverses.

Due to mention of Mt Herman Rd and Red Rocks Dr in the press conference, it would appear parts of this crime occurred there, at what is technically the end point of Limbaugh trail. (Red icon on map at trail run project link.) The green icon indicates the start point & parking area which is further southwest on Mt Herman Rd. If you do the quick virtual tour it's pretty rugged looking, although the end of the trail appears less steep than the beginning point.

Just tossing out random thoughts, if the killer knew TW, the killer could've known his routine and targeted him on a trail. But reading comments about TW, this man was a beloved member of the community, highly regarded by peers, viewed as kind and caring. Of all the descriptive words used for him, none portray the type of person who has enemies. Which makes it seem it's the crime of a stranger rather than someone who knew him, IMHO.

Then the multiple scenes, what was going on? If TW was killed on Mt Herman Rd it would seem to be an effort for the killer to move a body very far off the road. Maybe two people could do it but it's very difficult to envision one person doing that. Or, another scenario: was TW shot on the actual trail, and the killer took his bike and headed back to Mt Herman Rd? That doesn't seem plausible. Thinking through it in that reverse order: TW killed on trail, killer takes bike, takes a shoe, rides trail to Mt Herman Rd, ditches the bike before getting to the road, continues with the shoe, then drops the shoe in the road. That doesn't make sense. The only scenario I can come up with that takes the least amount of effort for the killer is that there was an encounter on Mt Herman Rd, causing TW lose a shoe. I'm thinking he was likely injured at this point, or at minimum felt threatened. So he rode his bike away from the encounter but something occurred that caused the bike to be left at a location off the road. Either he was injured & unable to ride, or the bike was damaged e.g. a flat, or the killer yanked it from under him. That bike would've been his quickest way out, so TW would want that advantage but something happened to remove that option from him. Did he intentionally head off trail on foot, where he felt he had the advantage due to knowing the terrain so well? Or was he forced at gunpoint? Or maybe heading off trail was his only recourse, because he was being shot at and staying on the road or trail left him too exposed, too easy a target? And why would a killer leave a shoe and a bike easily found, but go to the trouble of covering the body with leaves and twigs? If someone's going to conceal a body it's rather odd they don't conceal the victim's personal belongings as well. It's all very sad to think about. It's clearly a loss for the community and must be terrifying too. :(
What if the killer was on foot (like the Delphi suspect) had an angry altercation on the trail in Limbaugh Canyon with TW and his cycle, killed him (hatchet, .22) and dragged him off the trail to hide his body then rode his bike back to the trailhead at Mt Herman road and tossed it off the road to the side, not noticing the shoe had dropped off the pedal and was left by the road. His returns to the scene were checking to see if searchers had found the bike and the hatchet menacing could have been designed to scare people away from the area where the body was. Sept 14 was a Thursday and the menacing was the weekend following 16th/17th judging by the reports dated 21st Sept. This has just occurred to me that no car may have been involved at all and that could be another similarity not mentioned. Riding the bike away from the crime scene and leaving it near Mt H road makes it look like a vehicle was involved. TW's bike was found a long way from his body which is why it took them days to find him.
:cow: :cow: :moo:
 
  • #88
He has not really had a way for anyone to mail to him. He didn't know about his death till they were looking to get out of dodge. Since he was aware that his brother's death was well known it isn't likely he would have used his ID. And I think HH his gf was in FL.
HH was in Co for the sentencing on the 14th Sept. It's mentioned in the link up thread.
 
  • #89
Sorry IDK how to snip quotes...re: "plea" I wonder if MS still in El Paso jail & will he ever cross paths with DN ?
I didn't know MS was in jail. What for?
 
  • #90
who is MS? do tell!

I don't know...you got a guy up there running around on the trails , popping up out of nowhere threatening people with hatchets..he's driving around the crime scene search area with a gun and a hatchet in the car...I mean he's . right there in the crime scene AND he's the hatchet guy.. but Im supposed to believe there's another mad guy, psycho killer up there at
the same time on the same day and he's the guy that shot TW and then buried him under leaves...just like DN's mother's body was found. ...it's some other dude that did this...okay...

MOO
 
  • #91
  • #92
I've said the same thing. I just don't believe there are two people going around doing these things.

Probability and common sense dicatate he was *most likely* involved in TW's death.

Plus something tells me there's more to the story with his mom's death. JUST read the whole transcript. Two murder weapons...for just DN's uncle...


who is MS? do tell!

I don't know...you got a guy up there running around on the trails , popping up out of nowhere threatening people with hatchets..he's driving around the crime scene search area with a gun and a hatchet in the car...I mean he's . right there in the crime scene AND he's the hatchet guy.. but Im supposed to believe there's another mad guy, psycho killer up there at
the same time on the same day and he's the guy that shot TW and then buried him under leaves...just like DN's mother's body was found. ...it's some other dude that did this...okay...

MOO
 
  • #93
who is MS? do tell!

I don't know...you got a guy up there running around on the trails , popping up out of nowhere threatening people with hatchets..he's driving around the crime scene search area with a gun and a hatchet in the car...I mean he's . right there in the crime scene AND he's the hatchet guy.. but Im supposed to believe there's another mad guy, psycho killer up there at
the same time on the same day and he's the guy that shot TW and then buried him under leaves...just like DN's mother's body was found. ...it's some other dude that did this...okay...

MOO
Yes and by coincidence this other guy hasn't threatened anyone since September 25th or done anything else cos he knows DN is the fall guy. He's one lucky guy, this other guy. We could call him OMG (other mad guy) perhaps? Or SOD (some other dude) even?

:cow:

MS could mean one of those you tube guys who interviewed DN - that's just my assumption though. I'm probably wrong but that's ok.
:moo:
I am wrong :doh:
MS will be in prison by now so probably won't see DN until after his plea bargain. Or does he go back to face the Indy charges? It's ironic for DN - he travels to Co to see his brother's killer jailed, then ends up in there too? Maybe he has a plan for revenge of some sort in prison.
 
  • #94
Hahaha...i love OMG. Other Mad Guy. MOO
 
  • #95
What if the killer was on foot (like the Delphi suspect) had an angry altercation on the trail in Limbaugh Canyon with TW and his cycle, killed him (hatchet, .22) and dragged him off the trail to hide his body then rode his bike back to the trailhead at Mt Herman road and tossed it off the road to the side, not noticing the shoe had dropped off the pedal and was left by the road. His returns to the scene were checking to see if searchers had found the bike and the hatchet menacing could have been designed to scare people away from the area where the body was. Sept 14 was a Thursday and the menacing was the weekend following 16th/17th judging by the reports dated 21st Sept. This has just occurred to me that no car may have been involved at all and that could be another similarity not mentioned. Riding the bike away from the crime scene and leaving it near Mt H road makes it look like a vehicle was involved. TW's bike was found a long way from his body which is why it took them days to find him.
:cow: :cow: :moo:

Not bad. Even when I scratch out the hatchet and the unlikely event that the killer returned to the scene on a weekend, when more people would be on the trail, this makes logistical sense.
 
  • #96
But the shoe. Were it not for the shoe I could very readily accept the scenario that the murder occurred out on the trail, and the killer rode the bike back toward the road and left it nearer the road. But that would mean the killer had the extra shoe as additional baggage, since he was carrying a gun also. The killer would've had to tie the shoe to the handlebars or his belt loop or something, he needed both his hands for the handlebars. (Speaking of which, he would've left fingerprints, unless he had gloves on or wiped off the bike.) Why would a shoe be so important to the killer that he'd travel on the trail with it while leaving the scene? Then ultimately ditch it on the road. That leaves me SMH. The shoe in the road is what makes me think it all started in the road, IMHO.

Not bad. Even when I scratch out the hatchet and the unlikely event that the killer returned to the scene on a weekend, when more people would be on the trail, this makes logistical sense.

What if the killer was on foot (like the Delphi suspect) had an angry altercation on the trail in Limbaugh Canyon with TW and his cycle, killed him (hatchet, .22) and dragged him off the trail to hide his body then rode his bike back to the trailhead at Mt Herman road and tossed it off the road to the side, not noticing the shoe had dropped off the pedal and was left by the road. His returns to the scene were checking to see if searchers had found the bike and the hatchet menacing could have been designed to scare people away from the area where the body was. Sept 14 was a Thursday and the menacing was the weekend following 16th/17th judging by the reports dated 21st Sept. This has just occurred to me that no car may have been involved at all and that could be another similarity not mentioned. Riding the bike away from the crime scene and leaving it near Mt H road makes it look like a vehicle was involved. TW's bike was found a long way from his body which is why it took them days to find him.
:cow: :cow: :moo:
 
  • #97
But the shoe. Were it not for the shoe I could very readily accept the scenario that the murder occurred out on the trail, and the killer rode the bike back toward the road and left it nearer the road. But that would mean the killer had the extra shoe as additional baggage, since he was carrying a gun also. The killer would've had to tie the shoe to the handlebars or his belt loop or something, he needed both his hands for the handlebars. (Speaking of which, he would've left fingerprints, unless he had gloves on or wiped off the bike.) Why would a shoe be so important to the killer that he'd travel on the trail with it while leaving the scene? Then ultimately ditch it on the road. That leaves me SMH. The shoe in the road is what makes me think it all started in the road, IMHO.
The shoe - someone mentioned bike shoes can be fixed to the pedals. Maybe this one shoe stayed on longer than the other that may have been found elsewhere. Finding that other shoe may help to work out the order that it happened. Or he took both shoes purposely and discarded them and the bike all separately to foil searches.

There is also the similarity to consider - the perp walking on a trail and attacking, killing and hiding someone, not doing it from a vehicle.
 
  • #98
I believe the shows were aimed at KN the wife or even the ex? too

Glad u found the thread. Sounds like the case is getting to you. :scream:
The ex? please elaborate.
 
  • #99
Depending on whether or not it had a picture I suppose it could have been. Iirc they were stepbrothers so I doubt they looked alike.
They were half brothers, Rebecca was their mother.
 
  • #100
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