CO - Tim Watkins, 61, shot to death, Mount Herman, 14 Sept 2017 #1

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  • #181
We all ride up roads and then descend on the trail. It's more fun that way, and safer.

I'm not sure because I don't know the exact details, but I believe the body was found maybe a 1/4 mile from the road, but the trail from the road to where his body was found is fairly steep, too steep to carry a body up. I believe the robbery was staged. Maybe someone will show up and tell us exactly where TW was found.
 
  • #182
Sorry I've been out.

I knew TW as a work acquaintance and respected him greatly for his accomplishments and what he meant to the "tribe" if you will of trail riders in the Mt Herman area. I wasn't able to help with the search as I was preoccupied with my own family crisis that weekend but was listening when they found his body and I do know things from what I heard that I have kept to myself. With that said I do believe there are some safe assumptions we can make.

A sealed autopsy indicates to me that there were other injuries the SO doesn't want to release yet. So I think it is safe to assume that TW had some type of trauma which occurred before he was shot. Where his body was found rules out being hit by a vehicle. That really only leaves some type of assault.

My personal belief is that the type of trauma TW was found with that is the first tie to Delphi. If TW's autopsy records remain sealed even after the plea bargain then we can probably assume that is the case. The El Paso County sheriff is not going to release anything that could jeopardize the Delphi investigation.

Here's what we do know. We know for a fact that both DN and KN, and their vehicle with Indiana plates, were identified in several attempted assault complaints in the Mt Herman area involving a hatchet. One was during the run-in with the other vehicle on Mt Herman Rd and the other I believe is a failed robbery on Red Rocks Dr or perhaps chasing other bicyclist with a hatchet. The 2 I was able to find were Aug 23rd and 24th.

KN interview.
"That was Daniel's only aggressive interaction on Mount Herman Road that Katelyn said she witnessed or was aware of, though police said in his arrest records that a man and woman resembling Daniel and Katelyn Nations were involved in menacing complaints in the area on Aug. 23 and 24."

I found this also.;
"The El Paso County Sheriff's Office announces arrest charges against Daniel Nations on suspicion of attempted trespassing into a vehicle, attempted assault and criminal mischief stemming from a Sept. 9 event, according to court records. Explaining documents are sealed." Sorry I don't have links right now.

I also recall seeing a news report, that was later deleted, indicating hatchet man chased some kids a few days after TW's body was found, near where TW's body was found. I could have read this wrong when I saw it or maybe it was reported incorrectly.

The other potential ties that I can think of is that the body was found half covered in leaves and sticks.

And don't forget that DN was seen repeatedly driving past the searchers on Mt Herman road, returning to the crime scene, similar to how he was arrested for sexual assault in 2010.

So what we have is TW was possibly assaulted, murdered, then robbed, or made to look like a robbery. Here's the problem with this being a robbery.... no homeless local is going to try and steal a bike like TW rode. They know better. It would be an immediate bust the second they walked into a pawn shop.

Which leaves us what? rage, anger as a motive? wouldn't that be consistent with what we know about DN?

The reason I started this thread is that I believe the El Paso County DA is making a huge mistake by even considering a plea deal for DN.

Number one, I've made no secret that I believe KN is involved. At the very least she knows more than what she is saying. Why she is not in jail is beyond me.

Number two, it is my personal belief that the El Paso County DA was going to charge DN with the murder of TW several months back but chose not to, at least publicly, for unknown reasons. I believe behind closed doors there have been discussion taking place which would allow DN to plead guilty to a manslaughter charge, instead of taking him to court with a first degree murder charge. It makes me sick to my stomach to even think about.

The way every little thing in this case has been swept off the record stinks. Our community knows less about how TW died than Delphi knows about the girls. I can only hope my suspicions are proven wrong on Jan 4th.

Excellent post! I too so hope for justice for TW!
 
  • #183
We all ride up roads and then descend on the trail. It's more fun that way, and safer.

I'm not sure because I don't know the exact details, but I believe the body was found maybe a 1/4 mile from the road, but the trail from the road to where his body was found is fairly steep, too steep to carry a body up. I believe the robbery was staged. Maybe someone will show up and tell us exactly where TW was found.

I don't recall there being anything said of a robbery with theTW case. Can you please elaborate? I read that his wallet was still on him.
 
  • #184
LE told everything they are going to tell about the manner and cause of TW's death. Things must be kept secret so as to not run the risk of false confessions and misleading tips. There is nothing weird about this and I wouldn't read too much into it other than SOP.

JMHO, no cites.
 
  • #185
LE told everything they are going to tell about the manner and cause of TW's death. Things must be kept secret so as to not run the risk of false confessions and misleading tips. There is nothing weird about this and I wouldn't read too much into it other than SOP.

JMHO, no cites.

I find it interesting that LE hasn't been asking for anyone who knows anything to come forward. I think it's because they have their murderer.
 
  • #186
The attempts to connect DN to all of these crimes borders on hysteria and at the very best, is irrational as it is neither founded on fact or evidence.

A couple of points.

LE has no obligation to tell the public the truth about any case they are investigating.

DN and KN were said to have camped in that area. Their DNA could be found anywhere in that area and it wouldn't tie them to the crime.

Just because someone dies of a gunshot does not mean that some type of assault did not precede the murder.

There's no hysteria or irrational logic.
 
  • #187
I don't recall there being anything said of a robbery with theTW case. Can you please elaborate? I read that his wallet was still on him.

It was reported at least one of his shoes was found on/near Mt Herman Rd. I'm not sure about the wallet, other shoe, etc... I think those in the search and rescue would know.

I'm not sure what type of shoes TW wore but I'm pretty sure he wore clipless pedals and shoes. Clipless pedal shoes are strapped on tight so you can pull up on the pedals when riding. So they do not come off easily.

And cycling shoes have a hard plastic, solid sole that are next to impossible to run in since they don't bend like a normal shoe. Imagine a piece of wood strapped to the bottom of your foot.

How did he get to the top of Limbaugh without shoes? That would not be an easy thing to do and his feet would have been a bloody mess by the time he got there. These are not dirt trails, Mt Herman is decomposed granite, crushed gravel.

Why would someone only take his shoes? Maybe those were the only things that didn't have blood on them and could easily be sold at a pawn shop or secondhand store? Just a thought.
 
  • #188
It was reported at least one of his shoes was found on/near Mt Herman Rd. I'm not sure about the wallet, other shoe, etc... I think those in the search and rescue would know.

I'm not sure what type of shoes TW wore but I'm pretty sure he wore clipless pedals and shoes. Clipless pedal shoes are strapped on tight so you can pull up on the pedals when riding. So they do not come off easily.

And cycling shoes have a hard plastic, solid sole that are next to impossible to run in since they don't bend like a normal shoe. Imagine a piece of wood strapped to the bottom of your foot.

How did he get to the top of Limbaugh without shoes? That would not be an easy thing to do and his feet would have been a bloody mess by the time he got there. These are not dirt trails, Mt Herman is decomposed granite, crushed gravel.

Why would someone only take his shoes? Maybe those were the only things that didn't have blood on them and could easily be sold at a pawn shop or secondhand store? Just a thought.
Interesting and thank you. So, are you thinking the murderer wanted his shoes to pawn them? I'm confused since one shoe was by the wayside. Also, since these shoes you describe are impossible to run in, maybe TW took them off so that he could run? I'm still thinking he was led to where he was found. idk.......I'm thinking more on the idea that that hatchet man was getting his jolly's and scaring, controlling and killing was part of that.(escalated) I also think hatchet man (and possibly his wife) liked to live drug fueled lives and that is going to play a part in these insane murders. Not legally insane tho. The covering in leaves and twigs tells that. ajmoo
 
  • #189
There was talk of something carved in the chest of one of the girls. This would Def link them, if something similar happened to him.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk
 
  • #190
There was talk of something carved in the chest of one of the girls. This would Def link them, if something similar happened to him.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

mmm.....KN said he lost all reasoning when they moved to CO. I wonder if they had been fighting again. Iirc she said that he had choked her in CO. I wonder when that was. Was it around the time of the murder? The Delphi murders were at the time they were separated, per KN.
 
  • #191
I want to amend this. I originally put Palmer Lake which was correct, then changed it to Monument after reading an article. Since then everything I have read says TW lived in Palmer Lake. Sorry for the misinformation. If he set off from Palmer Lake, I wonder if he would do the loop anti clockwise I.e. Limbaugh Canyon first then the trail with Mt Herman road last or the other way ending with Limbaugh? I cannot believe the murder happened on Mt Herman Rd as I cannot see the murderer taking the body to the canyon afterwards. I think it could only happen at the canyon area and then the murderer taking/riding TW's bike back to the Mt Herman road area to leave it. The pic of Tim on the bike shows him with cycling gloves on. I wonder if he wore gloves that day and still had them on or whether the killer took the gloves along with the bike to avoid leaving fingerprints? There is so little info about this murder that I wonder if they already know who committed it?

AJMO.

bbm

Another similarity to the Delphi case seems to be obvious when - for now - nobody knows how the victims got to the place where they were found dead. A canyon re TW, a creek re the girls A/L .... A "lost" shoe re TW, "lost" clothing in the creek re the girls ....
To me it looks like the very trained work of an ex-military who is shrewd and powerful and who knows the forests like the back of his hand. Who wants to blame me if I think of someone like DN who is even smart enough to take his "living alibi" with him all the time: a wife and children (“We’re not that kind of people,”)


“Marines do not know how to give up ” (not even if they have to cross a canyon in the autumn or a creek in wintry February, maybe with a victim on their shoulders)
http://heavy.com/news/2017/09/daniel-nations-colorado-hatchet-man-delphi-indiana-murders-photos/
 
  • #192
I just sent you a fairly lengthy response BUT I am not sure you got it! I am so disappointed, I hope you got it! Please let me know! Thanks
Sorry I didn't get a lengthy response. Just a link.
 
  • #193
It was reported at least one of his shoes was found on/near Mt Herman Rd. I'm not sure about the wallet, other shoe, etc... I think those in the search and rescue would know.

I'm not sure what type of shoes TW wore but I'm pretty sure he wore clipless pedals and shoes. Clipless pedal shoes are strapped on tight so you can pull up on the pedals when riding. So they do not come off easily.

And cycling shoes have a hard plastic, solid sole that are next to impossible to run in since they don't bend like a normal shoe. Imagine a piece of wood strapped to the bottom of your foot.

How did he get to the top of Limbaugh without shoes? That would not be an easy thing to do and his feet would have been a bloody mess by the time he got there. These are not dirt trails, Mt Herman is decomposed granite, crushed gravel.

Why would someone only take his shoes? Maybe those were the only things that didn't have blood on them and could easily be sold at a pawn shop or secondhand store? Just a thought.
Since you were an acquaintance of TW, can you comment on how you think he might have reacted to someone who asked him for money? it was said there was a guy on the trail in Delphi who panhandled and when he was refused he got belligerent. Is panhandling common with all the homeless people in the nearby camps? I suppose it is unlikely a sexual predator would expose himself to another male so I wont ask about that. Is the trail so quiet during the day that a person can be assaulted and killed and carried down the hill that no one would come along? Would you imagine he may have had to hide for a time until people passed by? Were any folks around during the Crime scene investigation so that it is known how long they spent gathering evidence? Do we know if he was killed at the sight his body was found?
 
  • #194
Thanks so much for finding a new reference to TW. I was unable to get the link to download...prob at my end not yours.

BBM - Was there any mention in this article of TW having been "shot multiple times?" That, to me, is much better proof that this was not an accidental shooting. Tia.

Fox Bluff I found it on MSM

[FONT=&quot]The complaints about menacing came to the forefront of residents' minds following the killing of bicyclist Tim Watkins earlier this month. Watkins was reported missing on September 14th. Authorities found his body on September 17th. Preliminary information indicates he died from multiple gunshot wounds.

[/FONT]
http://www.koaa.com/story/36476115/...out-weapons-suspect-arrested-in-teller-county

[FONT=&quot]KR
Reacher[/FONT]
 
  • #195
We all ride up roads and then descend on the trail. It's more fun that way, and safer.

I'm not sure because I don't know the exact details, but I believe the body was found maybe a 1/4 mile from the road, but the trail from the road to where his body was found is fairly steep, too steep to carry a body up. I believe the robbery was staged. Maybe someone will show up and tell us exactly where TW was found.
TY so much for both posts. I wonder if they want this all plead out and no trials so he can then go to In for those charges. How it could possibly be manslaughter, I do not know, unless by insanity defence.
The Gearjunkie article has some links that have comments saying his body was found " a couple of switchbacks" up the Limbaugh Canyon. Would that tie in with the 1/4 mile off the trail that you mention?

:cow:
 
  • #196
The Gearjunkie article has some links that have comments saying his body was found " a couple of switchbacks" up the Limbaugh Canyon. Would that tie in with the 1/4 mile off the trail that you mention?

:cow:

What is a switch back? Mountain biking is new to me :-/
 
  • #197
bbm

Another similarity to the Delphi case seems to be obvious when - for now - nobody knows how the victims got to the place where they were found dead. A canyon re TW, a creek re the girls A/L .... A "lost" shoe re TW, "lost" clothing in the creek re the girls ....
To me it looks like the very trained work of an ex-military who is shrewd and powerful and who knows the forests like the back of his hand. Who wants to blame me if I think of someone like DN who is even smart enough to take his "living alibi" with him all the time: a wife and children (“We’re not that kind of people,”)


“Marines do not know how to give up ” (not even if they have to cross a canyon in the autumn or a creek in wintry February, maybe with a victim on their shoulders)
http://heavy.com/news/2017/09/daniel-nations-colorado-hatchet-man-delphi-indiana-murders-photos/
Yes another similarity is the inaccessibility of the bodies. The ravine and creek at Delphi and the canyon at Limbaugh. Murders near trails. The more I learn the more I am horrified.
 
  • #198
Am suddenly having display problems again with WS mobile site and cannot access the Full site at all. Anyone else having problems?
 
  • #199
What is a switch back? Mountain biking is new to me :-/

Sorry I don't know either. Maybe like a hairpin bend I thought.
 
  • #200
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