CO - Tim Watkins, 61, shot to death, Mount Herman, 14 Sept 2017 #1

[neesaki]

DN's brother was killed Jan 2017: http://www.krdo.com/news/crime/el-p...springs-sees-first-homicide-of-2017/261572704

Killer got a lighter sentence, and was sentenced same day TW went missing: http://www.kktv.com/content/news/Ma...er-assault-in-Colorado-Springs-410337155.html

Apologies for misreading that, thank you kizzykat

 

[ElementalLaura]

This just makes me mad. Why should he get a "deal" at all? He's had plenty of second chances already.
Hope he at least gets custodial sentence of 3+ years or it would make even more of a farce out of RL's sentence length.

Please do not let this menace out.

AIMOO

Probably worth noting that RL was on probation for his third (or fourth?) drunk driving conviction when he lied to the police to cover up that he had been drinking and driving yet again. He's not the best case example of someone who never had a second chance. If RL gets his sentence mod, I give him less than thirty days before he's out drunk on the roads again.

MOO

 

[MistyWaters]

It was mentioned by several bikers during and aftee the search that he may have "stashed" his bike. it sounded like a common trick with bikers who have mechanical trouble and need tools or assistance.
I still have no mental picture of where this was on the trail and road compared to his body even though I have looked at a map and photos. But for a killer to kill him, hide the body, take and hide the bike, take other possessions on a trail that may be difficult to navigate whether up or down, seems like it would take longer than 5 or 10 minutes but how long? And how far is the hike back to the car? Is it uphill or down? So maybe TW had already hid the bike and was walking to get what he would need when he was assaulted.

It's just odd that LE is so quiet on this case.

I wonder if the unnamed source of the multiple gunshots injuries was correct because I can't find any supporting official statement from LE, other than TW was "shot". If the source was also a searcher, a body covered in blood from a single gunshot can look like several.


If multiple gunshots were not involved, on the table of possibilities is accidental homicide and TW was shot by a random bullet in an area with a history of illegal recreation shooting. Perhaps he attempted to walk toward help (iirc Mt Herman doesnt have cellphone coverage) disorientated or otherwise, then eventually sought a resting place and succumbed to his injuries. After four days, his body was covered from autumn leaves blown or fallen from trees.

I could be wrong, but the lack of communication from LE has me wondering if it's not totally conclusive that intentional murder was involved.

"......Update on Mount Herman Road Homicide September 18, 2017

On Saturday, September 16, 2017, at approximately 5:00 PM, deputies responded to the base of Mount Herman Road in reference to a missing person. Palmer Lake Police had taken a case for the missing person earlier in the day. The missing person was last seen on September 14, 2017, at approximately 10:00 AM.

Search and Rescue was dispatched and began an extensive search of the area in which a shoe and bicycle were found. Due to limited light conditions, the search was called off for the night. Search and Rescue resumed their search early Sunday morning, September 17, 2017.

At approximately 11:45 AM, a civilian discovered a body which appeared to be deceased. Search and Rescue were able to confirm the person was deceased and requested law enforcement assistance.

Detectives responded and began to process the scene.

The victim, Timothy Watkins was shot and there is currently no suspect information. This is still an ongoing investigation and we are encouraging the residents of the area to be vigilant. If you see anything suspicious or out of the ordinary, please contact the Sheriff's Office Dispatch Center.......

Any information deemed official will be coming from the Sheriff's Office Public Information Officer...."
https://www.epcsheriffsoffice.com/news-releases/update-on-mount-herman-road-homicide

 

[Shiressleuth]

Probably worth noting that RL was on probation for his third (or fourth?) drunk driving conviction when he lied to the police to cover up that he had been drinking and driving yet again. He's not the best case example of someone who never had a second chance. If RL gets his sentence mod, I give him less than thirty days before he's out drunk on the roads again.

MOO

RL never Fta at court or absconded AFAIK. DN has numerous offences he has just run away from to avoid conviction. He has 4 warrants alone from Indiana. Perhaps that's what Co are doing the plea deal for - to make it easier for him to be extradited. Moo

 

[Daey34]

I just don't think so. "Half buried under leaves..."
https://gearjunkie.com/tim-watkins-mountain-biker-shot-colorado

There are just not that many leaves in the area in September. It's mostly evergreens. I walk those trails often. There are never any piles of leaves just sitting there.

It took the dogs to find his body. So no, I don't think natural leaf fall (especially in an area of evergreens) would conceal a body so much.

http://www.kktv.com/content/news/Se...in-biker-missing-since-Sept-14-445114943.html

Plus how do you explain his Safeway card and shoe being so far away if he was accidentally shot and then simply covered with autumn leaves?


I've lived in the area for a few years now, and I've never once heard a gun shot. I know I read one article in which someone states they hear them often. But I hike daily and have never heard it. I think it's one comment made to the media about frequent gun shots that spiraled out of control.

Furthermore, there's a property owner up on Mt. Herman who owns a large 40 acre lot and practices shooting on his own property. That could be some of what non-locals are referring to. Either way, perhaps another local can comment further, but gunshots aren't as big of a problem as some would like to make it, in my opinion.

To say that he was accidentally shot once, and the initial news articles were incorrect about multiple shot, plus there were enough leaves to cover his body from human sight/searchers/drones for 2 days, only to be found by the canines...plus to say that his safety card and shoe just accidentally came away at some point, is a stretch.

It's just odd that LE is so quiet on this case.

I wonder if the unnamed source of the multiple gunshots injuries was correct because I can't find any supporting official statement from LE, other than TW was "shot". If the source was also a searcher, a body covered in blood from a single gunshot can look like several.


If multiple gunshots were not involved, on the table of possibilities is accidental homicide and TW was shot by a random bullet in an area with a history of illegal recreation shooting. Perhaps he attempted to walk toward help (iirc Mt Herman doesnt have cellphone coverage) disorientated or otherwise, then eventually sought a resting place and succumbed to his injuries. After four days, his body was covered from autumn leaves blown or fallen from trees.

I could be wrong, but the lack of communication from LE has me wondering if it's not totally conclusive that intentional murder was involved.

"......Update on Mount Herman Road Homicide September 18, 2017

On Saturday, September 16, 2017, at approximately 5:00 PM, deputies responded to the base of Mount Herman Road in reference to a missing person. Palmer Lake Police had taken a case for the missing person earlier in the day. The missing person was last seen on September 14, 2017, at approximately 10:00 AM.

Search and Rescue was dispatched and began an extensive search of the area in which a shoe and bicycle were found. Due to limited light conditions, the search was called off for the night. Search and Rescue resumed their search early Sunday morning, September 17, 2017.

At approximately 11:45 AM, a civilian discovered a body which appeared to be deceased. Search and Rescue were able to confirm the person was deceased and requested law enforcement assistance.

Detectives responded and began to process the scene.

The victim, Timothy Watkins was shot and there is currently no suspect information. This is still an ongoing investigation and we are encouraging the residents of the area to be vigilant. If you see anything suspicious or out of the ordinary, please contact the Sheriff's Office Dispatch Center.......

Any information deemed official will be coming from the Sheriff's Office Public Information Officer...."
https://www.epcsheriffsoffice.com/news-releases/update-on-mount-herman-road-homicide

 

[Jax49]

Could TW have possibly realized he couldn't reach help and covered himself with leaves, hoping to survive until help arrived?

Hate to even think that...

 

[foxbluff]

Testing

ETA: Whew... This was the worse day of the year for internet service provider to have problems!!!

 

[ElementalLaura]

RL never Fta at court or absconded AFAIK. DN has numerous offences he has just run away from to avoid conviction.

Correct. RL is a habitual drunk driver who lied to the police in the early investigation into the murders of two little girls. He did that to protect himself because he was out drinking and driving again. I hope it didn't set back the investigation.

He has 4 warrants alone from Indiana. Perhaps that's what Co are doing the plea deal for - to make it easier for him to be extradited. Moo

Perhaps. My opinion is that CO is proceeding with dispensing with the CO cases, none of which involve a murder charge. Indiana does not seem to be in any hurry to extradite DN.

MOO

 

[Shiressleuth]

It's just odd that LE is so quiet on this case.

I wonder if the unnamed source of the multiple gunshots injuries was correct because I can't find any supporting official statement from LE, other than TW was "shot". If the source was also a searcher, a body covered in blood from a single gunshot can look like several.


If multiple gunshots were not involved, on the table of possibilities is accidental homicide and TW was shot by a random bullet in an area with a history of illegal recreation shooting. Perhaps he attempted to walk toward help (iirc Mt Herman doesnt have cellphone coverage) disorientated or otherwise, then eventually sought a resting place and succumbed to his injuries. After four days, his body was covered from autumn leaves blown or fallen from trees.

I could be wrong, but the lack of communication from LE has me wondering if it's not totally conclusive that intentional murder was involved.

"......Update on Mount Herman Road Homicide September 18, 2017

On Saturday, September 16, 2017, at approximately 5:00 PM, deputies responded to the base of Mount Herman Road in reference to a missing person. Palmer Lake Police had taken a case for the missing person earlier in the day. The missing person was last seen on September 14, 2017, at approximately 10:00 AM.

Search and Rescue was dispatched and began an extensive search of the area in which a shoe and bicycle were found. Due to limited light conditions, the search was called off for the night. Search and Rescue resumed their search early Sunday morning, September 17, 2017.

At approximately 11:45 AM, a civilian discovered a body which appeared to be deceased. Search and Rescue were able to confirm the person was deceased and requested law enforcement assistance.

Detectives responded and began to process the scene.

The victim, Timothy Watkins was shot and there is currently no suspect information. This is still an ongoing investigation and we are encouraging the residents of the area to be vigilant. If you see anything suspicious or out of the ordinary, please contact the Sheriff's Office Dispatch Center.......

Any information deemed official will be coming from the Sheriff's Office Public Information Officer...."
https://www.epcsheriffsoffice.com/news-releases/update-on-mount-herman-road-homicide

I have also seen the term "shot to death" used and the fact his bike and body were hidden has been used to indicate it was intentional rather than accidental or one random shot. LE are investigating it as a homicide with many similarities to Delphi. Delphi wasn't accidental so I cannot see that TW's was either or there would be no similarities imo.

 

[Jax49]

R u joking? Seriously? Have you read the Gear Junkie article and the other articles at the beginning of the thread?
Maybe that's one of the similarities with Delphi - that they covered themselves with leaves.

Of course I've read them and no I'm not joking. The possibility of having covered himself doesn't rule out murder. There has been no proof offered that the girls were covered, has there?

No need to be rude, is there? I believe that's the one thing Tricia asked of us all.

All we ask is you post in a civil manner. That’s it. No name calling, no insults, no baiting, in general, don’t be a jerk.

moo

 

[foxbluff]

https://twitter.com/lancebenzel/status/948637021102268416

Postponement until Friday, for further talks of plea deal

OMG x 7 !!! (Seven Hours being how much time I spent today trying to be able to get online here...Grrrh...)

Just how involved can this Plea Bargaining be?!? I'm dumbfounded...

 

[Shiressleuth]

https://www.oxfordlearnersdictionaries.com/us/definition/english/homicide

Homicide definition
Killing someone deliberately.

 

[foxbluff]

With Reference to TW I read a post earlier that said his bike was found off the trail approx 20 feet up off the trail with a puncture. Is it just possible TW had a puncture and hid his own bike under leaves and twigs up a hill and made his way on foot elsewhere for assistance? It appears to me hiding a bike up off a trail instead of down off a trail is a harder to do and will take more time.

Its just a thought and MOHO

KR
Reacher

Could be. I would lean towards thinking he would walk his bike out, but IDK.

 

[Shiressleuth]

Of course I've read them and no I'm not joking. The possibility of having covered himself doesn't rule out murder. There has been no proof offered that the girls were covered, has there?

No need to be rude, is there? I believe that's the one thing Tricia asked of us all.



moo

Where was I being rude? I really thought you were joking.

I've deleted my post now.

 

[Shiressleuth]

Correct. RL is a habitual drunk driver who lied to the police in the early investigation into the murders of two little girls. He did that to protect himself because he was out drinking and driving again. I hope it didn't set back the investigation.



Perhaps. My opinion is that CO is proceeding with dispensing with the CO cases, none of which involve a murder charge. Indiana does not seem to be in any hurry to extradite DN.

MOO

I think they (In) are waiting for the plea bargain to be finalised. Maybe there is a set order for the charges. The driving offences will catch up with him as they did with RL, and DN has additional drug and sex offences to be dealt with too. So it is even more waiting.

 

[ocgrad]

It's just odd that LE is so quiet on this case.

I wonder if the unnamed source of the multiple gunshots injuries was correct because I can't find any supporting official statement from LE, other than TW was "shot". If the source was also a searcher, a body covered in blood from a single gunshot can look like several.


If multiple gunshots were not involved, on the table of possibilities is accidental homicide and TW was shot by a random bullet in an area with a history of illegal recreation shooting. Perhaps he attempted to walk toward help (iirc Mt Herman doesnt have cellphone coverage) disorientated or otherwise, then eventually sought a resting place and succumbed to his injuries. After four days, his body was covered from autumn leaves blown or fallen from trees.

I could be wrong, but the lack of communication from LE has me wondering if it's not totally conclusive that intentional murder was involved.

"......Update on Mount Herman Road Homicide September 18, 2017

On Saturday, September 16, 2017, at approximately 5:00 PM, deputies responded to the base of Mount Herman Road in reference to a missing person. Palmer Lake Police had taken a case for the missing person earlier in the day. The missing person was last seen on September 14, 2017, at approximately 10:00 AM.

Search and Rescue was dispatched and began an extensive search of the area in which a shoe and bicycle were found. Due to limited light conditions, the search was called off for the night. Search and Rescue resumed their search early Sunday morning, September 17, 2017.

At approximately 11:45 AM, a civilian discovered a body which appeared to be deceased. Search and Rescue were able to confirm the person was deceased and requested law enforcement assistance.

Detectives responded and began to process the scene.

The victim, Timothy Watkins was shot and there is currently no suspect information. This is still an ongoing investigation and we are encouraging the residents of the area to be vigilant. If you see anything suspicious or out of the ordinary, please contact the Sheriff's Office Dispatch Center.......

Any information deemed official will be coming from the Sheriff's Office Public Information Officer...."
https://www.epcsheriffsoffice.com/news-releases/update-on-mount-herman-road-homicide

Well I had not watched this video until reviewing your post and wanting to ascertain how reliable the "shot multiple times" quote is. I have to say the way it is reported in MSM and their report on the investigation and serious concern of danger in the area, it gives the "multiple" statement a lot of weight. If you haven't watched it I recommend it.
http://www.kktv.com/content/news/Death-investigation-on-Mount-Herman-Road-445133403.html

 

[ElementalLaura]

With Reference to TW I read a post earlier that said his bike was found off the trail approx 20 feet up off the trail with a puncture. Is it just possible TW had a puncture and hid his own bike under leaves and twigs up a hill and made his way on foot elsewhere for assistance? It appears to me hiding a bike up off a trail instead of down off a trail is a harder to do and will take more time.

Its just a thought and MOHO

KR
Reacher

Could be. I would lean towards thinking he would walk his bike out, but IDK.

I agree that he would walk the bike down. Even if he were too injured to walk the bike, his best bet (absent someone trying to kill him) would be to stay by the trail and wait for a passing biker.

I would also think that he'd have a quick patch kit with him for punctures. A patched tire might slow him down, but he'd be able to ride to a location to be picked up. He was an elite mountain biker, so he was probably prepared for the more common mishaps that can occur.

 

[kizzykat]

I would also think that he'd have a quick patch kit with him for punctures. A patched tire might slow him down, but he'd be able to ride to a location to be picked up. He was an elite mountain biker, so he was probably prepared for the more common mishaps that can occur.

I agree, everything points to this man knew what he was doing very well, from bikes to trails:
"He was a masterful bike mechanic, as anyone in Colorado Springs or Monument, where he had his own shop for a while, can attest. It’s impossible to imagine how many people he taught how to change a tire, or how many right now are riding bikes Tim sold them or customized for them. And he was a master of the trails."
https://www.csindy.com/coloradosprings/remembering-tim-watkins/Content?oid=7441881

 

[foxbluff]

I think they (In) are waiting for the plea bargain to be finalised. Maybe there is a set order for the charges. The driving offences will catch up with him as they did with RL, and DN has additional drug and sex offences to be dealt with too. So it is even more waiting.

BBM - Yes, exactly.

I think we're all tired of waiting for all DN's cases to be resolved. Today's Hearings were such a disappointment. So now we're waiting for Friday when, per reporter LanceB., the Plea Deal could be announced.

 

[Shiressleuth]

BBM - Yes, exactly.

I think we're all tired of waiting for all DN's cases to be resolved. Today's Hearings were such a disappointment. So now we're waiting for Friday when, per reporter LanceB., the Plea Deal could be announced.

Something is delaying it. The prosecution gave an offer and defence came back with a counter offer which the prosecution couldn't consider as he was in court (mid Dec). There's been time to consider now so I think it cannot have been acceptable to prosecution imo. Something is the sticking point - at least one of the charges is still being argued I think.