CO - Tim Watkins, 61, shot to death, Mount Herman, 14 Sept 2017 #2

[Shiressleuth]

https://gearjunkie.com/tim-watkins-mountain-biker-shot-colorado
Mountain Biker Shot Dead, Half-Buried On CO Trail
Residents in Monument, Colo., north of Colorado Springs, are on high alert following the discovery of a mountain biker shot dead and partially buried along a local mixed-use trail.

Sources close to the investigation told KKTV 11 News Watkins was “shot multiple times.”

Singletracks editor Jeff Fisch, who lives in the area, reported that a hiker, unconnected with the search, found Watkins’s body “hidden, under a pile of leaves and twigs.”
-.-.-.-

Half-buried. Check.

One MSM article called TW location a "shallow grave".

 

[ocgrad]

Re. Your second link - the csindy.com link .

Another coincidence - Mike Rust (the rider and the wolf) and Tim Watkins both having worked for Crandall and been murdered.

Do you think this is anything more than coincidence considering the burglary and Gonzales statements to family?

 

[Daey34]

Upon calling, she asked some questions about why I was calling. I told her about TW’s murder, the trails, and Indiana plates, which was leading up to the hatchet.

The call seemed like it was going to be short until the hatchet was mentioned. When the threatening and the menacing with a hatchet came out of my mouth, she IMO Perked up. She asked emphatically, “he had a hatchet?” and started asking a lot more questions and then came back and asked me for several pieces of information including my social and where I live. We talked extensively about the incidents on Mt Herman and DN circling the search party as well.

She asked me, “what about his face looks like the sketch. I told her it was his nose. She asked me to describe the nose, which I described as a potato nose. She repeated “potato nose?”

I had to spell DN’s last name letter for letter, which also made me think he hadn’t been discussed prior to his arrest. I had to literally say “N-A-T...”

Then she did not hear “Teller County” but heard “Tyler county.” I then had to spell “Teller.”


Hope this helps clear up that morning.

Oh yes...I too was thinking of Daey's post about calling the tipline and how interest picked up after Daey mentioned the hatchet.

I would love to read that post again, but how to find it !?!

 

[Shiressleuth]

Do you think this is anything more than coincidence considering the burglary and Gonzales statements to family?

Its definitely coincidence but a strange one imo. Did you read the thread I linked? I even found that strange to read and couldn't exactly work out who was who and whether it was a confession exactly. The neighbour burgled him and shot him in the back of the head with his own gun if I followed it correctly.

 

[ocgrad]

Emptybottles -
First let me say Hallelujah as I have found the Limbaugh Canyon trail on a map and understand it! Here is the link for anyone who has been challenged by the previous maps posted as I have been.
https://www.hikingproject.com/trail/7006923/limbaugh-canyon-trail
The narrative portion on this site describes doing this trail from the southern end off MHR. Steep portion at first then downhill most of the way ending at Red Rocks Rd. Is this the most common way? Do we know which end his bike and shoe were found? His body? Do we know if he was ever on the LC trail that day?
As a side note you can switch to satellite view on Google maps and using the trail map as a guide actually zoom in and see the trail itself between the foliage. This helped me alot.

 

[Shiressleuth]

https://www.websleuths.com/forums/s...Michael-Rust-56-Saguache-County-31-March-2009

I noticed my link to Mike Rust's thread didn't post correctly so am trying again.

 

[ocgrad]

Its definitely coincidence but a strange one imo. Did you read the thread I linked? I even found that strange to read and couldn't exactly work out who was who and whether it was a confession exactly. The neighbour burgled him and shot him in the back of the head with his own gun if I followed it correctly.

I read some other articles too when his name first came up a few days ago. He got home and found he had been burgled and his gun stolen. He saw tracks in the dirt and snow, called a friend and said he had been robbed and they took his gun (a cherished family piece) and he was going to find them and took off on his dirt bike. He chased Gonzales down but he obviously got the best of him. Gonzales later was arrested for theft, drugs and was serving time. His son Michael age 20 called a tip into LE and said his father was involved in the murder and he was suspicious about a hole on his grandfsthers property that was mysteriously filled in. Gonzales was soon to be eligible for parole. He was a member of the Nortenos gang and I don't think his son wanted him to be released. Gonzales had written to his wife that he was going to tip off LE about the hole when he got out and collect the reward! When he was taken for this murder he said Mike came after him while he was cutting wood behind his house accusing him of stealing his gun and had a gun with him and in self defense it went off and he became scared and buried the body. Of course they had record of his phone call regarding his gun being stolen but more, the examination performed after they received his body was that he was shot in the back of the head.
Also this article where Crandall is quoted and he seemed to genuinely like both Rust and Watkins, describes the people around MTH and illegal shooting. When i first read of the shooting I thought it was just sport but after the articles of people hired to defend illegal growing operations I'm not so sure.

https://www.csindy.com/coloradospri...nown-for-illegal-activity/Content?oid=7441765

 

[Shiressleuth]

@ocgrad
Your explanation has really helpedme understand that better now TY. I agree with you that knowing about these large illegal grows has made me think about the protection angle as a motive for the killing.

 

[Shiressleuth]

Am thinking that next week is likely to be when DN returns to Indiana. Hopefully we will also have some sort of update from LE, both here in Co and in In. JMO.

 

[minazoe]

I personally feel that limiting DN convo to it's own thread is to deny that he is the only named POI in Abby and Libby's murder. I would venture that there are many other sites out there where non approved theories can be discussed , and other suspicious people can be investigated. Asking Webslueths to disregard it's rules I think is a losing proposition and I question why the anti DN folks would want to read here if they disagree with LE about who their main POI is.

and until they come right out and say he isn't , it is really a disservice to Abby and Libby to disregard DN and discontinue our interest in him.

IMO

 

[foxbluff]

Upon calling, she asked some questions about why I was calling. I told her about TW’s murder, the trails, and Indiana plates, which was leading up to the hatchet.

The call seemed like it was going to be short until the hatchet was mentioned. When the threatening and the menacing with a hatchet came out of my mouth, she IMO Perked up. She asked emphatically, “he had a hatchet?” and started asking a lot more questions and then came back and asked me for several pieces of information including my social and where I live. We talked extensively about the incidents on Mt Herman and DN circling the search party as well.

She asked me, “what about his face looks like the sketch. I told her it was his nose. She asked me to describe the nose, which I described as a potato nose. She repeated “potato nose?”

I had to spell DN’s last name letter for letter, which also made me think he hadn’t been discussed prior to his arrest. I had to literally say “N-A-T...”

Then she did not hear “Teller County” but heard “Tyler county.” I then had to spell “Teller.”


Hope this helps clear up that morning.

Thank you so much, Daey, for going to the trouble of retelling your fascinating story!

You're always so good with descriptions and I love the BBM part. I can almost hear the tipline operator asking “he had a hatchet?”

I think your post makes a nice (and needed) addition to TW's Thread. Again, thanks so much.

 

[Hatfield]

JMO
I've been reading back to catch up and just want to thank everyone for all the input.

I think some really good points have been made about possible connections. I finally know who ML is and I have to say I agree there is a possible connection to the same killer of TW.

Assuming ML is no longer with us, one similarity between the ML and TW cases that strikes me is on the surface they were both killed for no apparent reason that we know of. As far as we know right now their killer(s) seems to be a stranger to them and someone they did not know before the day they disappeared.

So if that is accurate then that could be a clue in itself of the type of individual(s) that would get enough rage to randomly kill a stranger.

 

[Shiressleuth]

I personally feel that limiting DN convo to it's own thread is to deny that he is the only named POI in Abby and Libby's murder. I would venture that there are many other sites out there where non approved theories can be discussed , and other suspicious people can be investigated. Asking Webslueths to disregard it's rules I think is a losing proposition and I question why the anti DN folks would want to read here if they disagree with LE about who their main POI is.

and until they come right out and say he isn't , it is really a disservice to Abby and Libby to disregard DN and discontinue our interest in him.

IMO

I believe we should be able to freely discuss DN within TOS as allowed as he is connected to both these cases via the similarities. I don't really care where we discuss it. If posters don't want to read it that's tough for them, but I have no sympathies. They have the choice to s&r, ignore or not read the thread at all. They can post their own theories and thoughts. All this has been clearly spelled out. Think of the families of TW and A&L and how hard their lives are when they don't know who the killer is or even who is the top number one POI. I hope more info is forthcoming in the next week or so. Just lets keep discussing and bringing up anything we think could be relevant. :cow:

 

[kizzykat]

MOO: DN wasn't organized enough to update the license plates on his wife's vehicle before leaving the state of Indiana, despite knowing that would trigger a traffic stop by any LE who noticed. There's no way he was running an illegal grow operation on federal land. I doubt he could keep a single spider plant alive. JMO.

^^This is pretty much why I think DN would try it, believing it would be easy money but not thinking or planning beyond that point. He'd just wing it. Not saying he'd be successful, but can see him trying it, IMO.

 

[minazoe]

KN said

when they got to CO , DN lost all reason.

thats a pretty broad statement.." all reason".

she needs to give him up. MOO.

 

[Bill Carson]

JMO
I've been reading back to catch up and just want to thank everyone for all the input.

I think some really good points have been made about possible connections. I finally know who ML is and I have to say I agree there is a possible connection to the same killer of TW.

Assuming ML is no longer with us, one similarity between the ML and TW cases that strikes me is on the surface they were both killed for no apparent reason that we know of. As far as we know right now their killer(s) seems to be a stranger to them and someone they did not know before the day they disappeared.

So if that is accurate then that could be a clue in itself of the type of individual(s) that would get enough rage to randomly kill a stranger.

Respectfully, ML was known to suffer from depression, and I believe that LE has taken the position that her disappearance is probably suicide; i.e., that there is no evidence of foul-play or danger to the public.

Of course, until that theory is proven, we are free to pursue a theory of homicide.

 

[foxbluff]

https://www.websleuths.com/forums/s...Michael-Rust-56-Saguache-County-31-March-2009

I noticed my link to Mike Rust's thread didn't post correctly so am trying again.

I, too, noticed that your first link didn't work, but since I assumed the prob was with "me and my puter" I thanked you for the post and moved on. LOL

I read all of the posts in Michael Rust's thread. His sister is quoted in the last post. I noticed that her last name is Crandall so perhaps she was married to her brother's boss.

 

[Shiressleuth]

Respectfully, ML was known to suffer from depression, and I believe that LE has taken the position that her disappearance is probably suicide; i.e., that there is no evidence of foul-play or danger to the public.

Of course, until that theory is proven, we are free to pursue a theory of homicide.

There is the strange thing about her car in that LE was asking for tips and if anyone had seen it between 24th and 29th September like they didn't know where it was between those dates. She is still missing so whether suicide, accident or foul play we just don't know unless/until she is found.

 

[Shiressleuth]

I, too, noticed that your first link didn't work, but since I assumed the prob was with "me and my puter" I thanked you for the post and moved on. LOL

I read all of the posts in Michael Rust's thread. His sister is quoted in the last post. I noticed that her last name is Crandall so perhaps she was married to her brother's boss.

I saw that too and wondered that as well.

 

[Daey34]

I agree. It’s MOO that ML’s disappearance isn’t related to TW’s disappearance. If one chooses to sleuth outside WS, one can find some info that calls foul play into question.

But, that’s not to say that depressed people can’t be murdered.

Respectfully, ML was known to suffer from depression, and I believe that LE has taken the position that her disappearance is probably suicide; i.e., that there is no evidence of foul-play or danger to the public.

Of course, until that theory is proven, we are free to pursue a theory of homicide.