CocoaMom's Church Theory

[mamadofthree]

It's not just a SINGLE flip-flop that makes this a LOGICAL place to search.

It's highly unlikely they can prove the owner of a single flip-flop because the mate probably is long gone.

It's the TOTALITY of the reasons CocoaMom even zeroed in on this area..... starting with the PINGS.


If LE picked out a couple of areas to search ONLY because of the pings & little more, then I think they NEED to take a look at the reasoning here.

Pings, water, woods, playground, ease of moving around without being questioned, parking lot, potential buildings (shed?) to leave a drugged child while you party.... OR a place she's been where she knows she can dump a body.

We KNOW Casey had a lot of hours to kill waiting for her friends to get home from school or their jobs.... it's likely she'd not be anxious to be caught walking around with Caylee when she's supposed to be at HER job & her daughter is supposedly with some make-believe nanny.... she'd afraid she might run into someone who might tell her family they saw the two girls.... Casey would want a 'safe' place where they can wait until it's safe to go back to the house.

:clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap:

 

[wedavis]

As for the flip flop mate: if by some miracle DNA evidence was still on it, then one could make a good guess who it belongs to (or wore it at one time).

 

[mamadofthree]

Does anyone know where the picture that was just posted of Casey and Caylee was taken at?

I agree with LI MOM.. I just wanted to help the other poster who was looking for KC in pictures with flip-flops..

To answer your question, IIRC I believe that was taken at the Ovieda house? Someone virtually kick and correct me if I am wrong.. :crazy:

 

[MD MOMMY]

Does anyone know where the picture that was just posted of Casey and Caylee was taken at?

I believe at Amy's house in Ovieda, I think that is what it's called..IIRC.

 

[sweetmop]

I know most of you dont know me and I dont post alot. But I thought id come read this and as soon as I seen the first pic of the sign hawks hollow I immediately ran into the washroom and started getting sick!!

OK, I'm a bit slow tonight.
What is so siginificant about Hawks Hollow? Several of you have mentioned it. What is it? Sorry i'm so slow

 

[Tricia]

GUYS, PLease NO HOME NUMBERS POSTED. Think about how much you would like your home number posted on the Internet.

I am begging you DO NOT CALL LE. Please. We have enough of a bad rap for being "Internet Crazies."

Unless you know something and have actual case information do not add to Law Enforcements already full plates.

Remember we are a discussion forum first and foremost. We discuss, we dissect and disperse information. We help out when we can but we do not want to ever interfere.

 

[LI_Mom]

Sorry, I was just referring to calling LE to pick up a piece of "evidence." I'm all for a search in this area.

Sure it is a public place, but why would anyone be around at night?

Yes, I know... I was just reacting like that because CocoaMom said LE is NOT interested in searching the area?!!!!!

For the life of me, I don't understand why they would zero in on this general area & then completely dismiss this very logical theory.

I think the sad truth is that LE is not going to spend the money to search here & there & here & there.... they're probably worried about harming the case by allowing the defense to say "Aha! See, you didn't find her again.... she's NOT dead' AND they have other cases to work on AND they might be getting concerned by the increasing security risk the Anthonys are generating.

 

[Sleuthster]

My DD's (college age) have atleast 5 pairs of flip flops. I never see them wear anything else, even in the winter (they wear toe socks with them). one is moving to upstate NY next month and I told her there would be NOWAY she could get away with wearing them there in the winter.
I don't believe that they have duplicate pairs though of the same ones, nor do they wear the same ones their sister has.

 

[JWG]

It's not just a SINGLE flip-flop that makes this a LOGICAL place to search.

It's highly unlikely they can prove the owner of a single flip-flop because the mate probably is long gone.

It's the TOTALITY of the reasons CocoaMom even zeroed in on this area..... starting with the PINGS.

I can be led to believe a church would be a possible dump site. Strange as it may seem, I think a piece of Casey felt guilt for what she had done and may have tried to "make things right" by putting Caylee in a "proper place". Some of the things she did following the murder and her arrest point to little ways in which she was memorializing Caylee.

The most likely church location would be one she is familiar with and believed she would come back to periodically. If the Anthony's belonged to a church, that would be where I would start. How about Rev. Grund's church? Did AL belong to a church? Did anyone belong to this church?

Let's be careful with the pings. The area in question is covered by three cell towers. And Tony's is covered by the same three. The church and Tony's would also produce the same CID (basically direction ID). We cannot determine where she specifically was in that area with the information available.

If KC did leave the body at this particular location I highly doubt it would have been in the pond. I say this for two reasons. First, she has much more control over concealment if she hides it in the brush. There is not a lot of control when one just throws something in the water. Second, if she bothered to leave the body at a church due to some level of guilt, the act of throwing it into the water doesn't fit. I can more easily believe she would go into the woods / brush and hide it.

Lastly, I really don't think the Anthony's know where KC hid Caylee, so I don't think anyone needs to worry about evidence tampering tonight.

 

[mamadofthree]

OK, I'm a bit slow tonight.
What is so siginificant about Hawks Hollow? Several of you have mentioned it. What is it? Sorry i'm so slow

Sweet! How are ya? The significance of the Hawks/Hollow is that hawks have been mentioned in the dreams/visions thread by several people who have seen a hawk or a owl in a dream or vision. I personally have read some the posters' comments there and in fact a lot of their descriptions match these photos taken by Cocoamom at the church and surrounding park of the church. Very eerie, but if you match their descriptions and look at the photos, they go hand in hand.

Hope that helps!

 

[technicalconfusion]

Just playing devil's advocate for a second, Who says she carried the body? Wouldn't it make more sense and be less alarming for someone to have it in a suitcase the kind that have the handles extended so you can roll it.... they even have ice chests like that.

Or what about a big laptop case?

 

[RR0004]

GUYS, PLease NO HOME NUMBERS POSTED. Think about how much you would like your home number posted on the Internet.

I am begging you DO NOT CALL LE. Please. We have enough of a bad rap for being "Internet Crazies."

Unless you know something and have actual case information do not add to Law Enforcements already full plates.

Remember we are a discussion forum first and foremost. We discuss, we dissect and disperse information. We help out when we can but we do not want to ever interfere.

Thanks, Tricia. Are we really looked at that disparagingly?

 

[LeLe1953]

The story:
So I drive over there. I hope to see LP whom I talked to and/or Murt whom I talked to. Figured if they weren't there I would just drive through and leave. Got there and it looks exactly as Google Earth and Google Maps show. Only lots of cars! I couldn't believe the cars! Drove towards the back and noted how I went over the Econ with big ravines on each side of the cross-over.

Lots of people, lots of kids in uniforms - OH! It's a church school - little kids and big kids - sign on a bldg - "High School"..I go further back. Soccer field on right/North. Parking right by playground. Little kids lined up to go out to play. I open car door - no need for fear - tons of people around. No one notices me. I toss car keys on seat while I set phone camera. Little boy about 5 runs up, puts hand on my leg and says "HI, I'm XXXX"!! I'm still in my car he is practically in my lap! I'm shocked. Teacher with line of kids doesn't even notice - YIKES! I told him to go back to class and he shouldn't talk to strangers! I didn't want to scare him but figured this was probably best! Stand up, shut door - OH CRAP - keys still on seat!!!!

Call AAA it will be an hour - Took pics of soccer field, playground and looked for how to get to pond since playground is fenced and locked. Saw to the right the way back - no big deal, couple more pics and walked that way.

Stopped dead in my tracks when I saw the Hawk's Hollow sign. Trying to process this - take photo. Little GIRL (beautiful) runs up and slips her hand into mine. I flip again! Adults everywhere - no one notices. I told her that even though some people look really nice, you still shouldn't talk to anyone that you don't know their name. She looked scared and ran back and climbed in teacher lap. Teacher looks at me, I wave, she waves back. YEESH!

I walk over and peek in Hawk's Hollow - note and take pics of trucks and stuff to right and path to retention pond to left. Hawk's Hollow looks so cool! Obvious no one has been in here in a long time. I enter. Clearing, rotted stumps in front of the "stage" that were probably benches a long time ago. I look around. No one knows I'm here, no one ever would. It's quiet and completely visually blocked from everywhere! Woods all around, all kinds of stuff in woods - take more pics and practically run to the stage. get up on it, peer through the wood cracks - lots of stuff under there. Back side, see a fox skull - yep this place has never been searched! I could climb right under the stage - no I do not, but I could. Too scared of snakes and such to take more than a peek but I am VERY VERY intrigued!! I get the strangest feeling - can't describe. Like I'm right under everyone's nose and they don't even know it!

No way to pond from here but I can see it behind the stage through the bushes. Fence...I go out and down path to pond, take more pics. Really looks like a bench down there on the left but not sure and not going in further. Looks mowed but not really "cared for". As I walk back by the backside of the playground three more kids - 2 girls and a boy come over to the fence individually and start chatting it up with me. I am deeply disturbed at the lack of supervision here even with 2 teachers on the other side of playground. They are chatting with each other and not watching the kids.

Go back to car and look for AAA. Nope, no sign. Starts to rain - what next? I run to a bathroom by the playground - nice and clean and air conditioned...stops raining. I walk to Econ cross-over. Maintenance guy digging by power pole (yeah that's smart!) I say Hi, he nods. I take pics of the ravine from both sides. Two men and a woman pass me individually as I take pictures - say nothing.. here comes AAA....5 mins later I am leaving.

Thoroughly disgusted with the supervision of these beautiful children, sopping wet and even more convinced that this is where she hung out. After 5PM (according to sign that playground closes at 5) , no kids, no school all vacant back there. I could LIVE in that Hawk's Hollow and no one would ever know! Bathroom nearby - heck she could just walk up to the playground and let Caylee play with the other kids and no one would say a word!

Hubby going to file for divorce if I don't get food in the house so I dash to grocery store - marathon dash, doing good until I ran into the Clampet reunion in the middle of the bread aisle! Gotta have the bread - living on sandwiches these days! Slowest cashier in the South and "Walter" the 94 year old bag boy wasn't helping! I'm practically bouncing up and down biting tongue so I don't scream HURRY UP, WSers are waiting!!!

I run outside - pouring rain again!! Rush home, power clean, homemade pizza for dinner, do dishes, let out dogs (they don't even know who I am anymore), here I am...

any questions?

Great job. PLease tell me what is the meaning of Hawks Hollow? Somewhere I have missed something ( probably a lot of somethings.) The only thing I come up with is part of 2 last names as in Mark & natalie. Please fill me in.

 

[cocoamom]

OK, I am going to work tomorrow and will make some calls on my breaks. By the way, the shuttle that is launching Friday is the "Endeavour"...

I will call Yuri again but if he makes me feel slighted again, I'm done with him. A couple people called me today and told me to call LP again tonight and "not to be intimidated by him" - YA right - easy for you to say! I just don't feel that is the right avenue. I feel like I can picture him and the hat, camera crew, RD all standing around property owned privately by a CHURCH with school going on...you see it too? good! I love LP, just get the wrong feeling here. I also do not cherish the thought of being NG's "bombshell" of the week!

I feel the strongest about going in person to a church Deacon or someone and laying it all out for him. Maybe he would agree to a private and quiet search using a handful of people, possibly including the TES team leader that is local that I discussed earlier. If we make a find, THEN the LE and cavalry should come.

As far as the flip flop - this is a high school too. How many people do you remember in school walking around with one shoe because some pranksters grabbed the other one and hid it or tossed it somewhere relatively unreachable? I don't think she would have left without her second shoe...

I don't feel too strongly about the pond - but maybe the woods over the low fence around it - toss and run? Most strongly is that Hawk's Hollow. THAT is where I felt it, that stage, the woods, very easy, very smart, very accessible, not used or visited by anyone...not very big. Search wouldn't take too long with 4-5 people.

 

[LI_Mom]

Does anyone know where the picture that was just posted of Casey and Caylee was taken at?

I'd love to know that also.

Casey sure looks like she's thrilled to be spending the day with Caylee. :furious:

Everytime the defense tries to bring up what a good mother Casey was & how much she loved Caylee... they should show this pic.

 

[Tricia]

Thanks, Tricia. Are we really looked at that disparagingly?

When I say "WE" I don't mean just Websleuths. I mean Internet discussion groups in general. I have heard people who post on the Internet described as "crazies" too often. I am always fighting that image.

Websleuths is held in higher regard by Law Enforcement than most other forums. I want to keep it that way.

Again, it is a generalization that is just not true but it doesn't help if people start calling LE with something that could jam up their work.

Please I love what you are doing on this thread. It is amazing. Thank you. I am just looking at it from my standpoint.

Thanks everyone.
Tricia

 

[cocowiley]

Great job. PLease tell me what is the meaning of Hawks Hollow? Somewhere I have missed something ( probably a lot of somethings.) The only thing I come up with is part of 2 last names as in Mark & natalie. Please fill me in.

hawks and/or owls were brought up in one of the psychic threads

 

[technicalconfusion]

I'd love to know that also.

Casey sure looks like she's thrilled to be spending the day with Caylee. :furious:

Everytime the defense tries to bring up what a good mother Casey was & how much she loved Caylee... they should show this pic.

That was taken at the Oviedo house.

 

[mamadofthree]

GUYS, PLease NO HOME NUMBERS POSTED. Think about how much you would like your home number posted on the Internet.

I am begging you DO NOT CALL LE. Please. We have enough of a bad rap for being "Internet Crazies."

Unless you know something and have actual case information do not add to Law Enforcements already full plates.

Remember we are a discussion forum first and foremost. We discuss, we dissect and disperse information. We help out when we can but we do not want to ever interfere.

Thanks Tricia! I am crazy, but so crazy and anxious to find our precious Caylee But I understand not jumping the gun...:blowkiss:

 

[RR0004]

Someone let me know when they want to go search - I'll take a vaca day from work - the shuttle that's supposed to launch Friday will launch without me!!
Just read the whole thread here are answers to your comments/questions:

1. Casey doesn't have to be "connected" to this church. It's "close" to home, Tony, Full Sail, Blanchard Park, etc. I hid out from my parents in church parking lots - they always found me elsewhere but never at the church! No cops, no nothing - esp. at nite.

2. Matches all psychic and dreams, including mine and I'm not really psychic. Soccer field, "up" (God?,heaven?, steeple?), owls/hawks, water, woods, wooden bridge, etc.

3. Maximum 10 minute walk to or from Amscott

4. Right across from Blanchard Park

5. No cemetary at this church but close to Chapel Hill cemetary - thought one of the Anthony men is buried there? some early thread?

6. According to BondJamesBond's spreadsheet posted this am on a sticky ping thread, she didn't ping this tower for a significant amount of time for about 5 days after June 16. Maybe drive bys but that's all. I wouldn't go near where I dumped a body either.

7. Casey feel guilty for dumping a body at a church? No guilt for killing her daughter right? HA!

8. LP is busy down south by Moss Park today (heard from a fellow WS),he wanted me to email the map but that is all I have heard. Yuri not interested, said he would imagine areas around BP have already been searched?

9. Everyone I talked to: Yuri, TES team lead, Murt, LP all seemed not to interested. I don't think they realize!! When I asked specifically if this church area had been searched, all said no or didn't think so. It was obvious to me it has not been.

10. I looked at all the trash and stuff I could. Didn't TOUCH ANYTHING. Was afraid someone would find me and question me so I hurried. Should have spent more time - they don't even know I exist!

11. We have to remember, this is probably church property! We can't just storm in there and search! Gotta get permission. Anyone know how to look up property records to see ownership of pond?

12. Pings - she doesn't bounce from tower to tower when pinging this tower. It's steady so I figured relatively close to the tower. This is a little ovver 1/2 mile from the tower.

13. Didn't smell anything - forgot to sniff, I was dizzy but that was probably because I was hyperventilating!!!!!

14. Ihave had no word from Murt or LP but anticipate it as soon as they figure this out and how important it is - everything fits!!!

15. Fay brought the water WAY up. The "bench" thing by the pond would have been underwater. Waters have receeded now.

16. Annie has a house on the East side of Blanchard Park, 8 miles away and under a different cell tower. Cell company's wouldn't spend the $$ to overlap tower abilities, they just barely want to cover. That's why you lose signal when changing towers while driving. This tower would only cover part of Blanchard park before another tower took over. There are towers everywhere - saw them today and this weekend. Highly populated=small range towers.

17. Ddidn't touch anything - even fox skull still there.

18. Boards of "stage"not loose, I pushed with feet but not overly secure either. Would be easy to remove IMO but easier to just take to back of stage, push under...

19. Afraid to contact OCSO or LE, Yuri all but laughed at me and I feel like a kook or something trying to explain all this to people who aren't following details like we are!!! YOU CALL LE/YURY/OCSO!!

20. I tipped AAA $5 and told him to buy a gallon of gas! His name was Sebastian and he was fast and nice - but then again I didn't tell him I was on a Casey mission with 1,000 other people!!

21. Hawk's hollow - psychic thread - hawks/owls...

Notice any surveillance cameras outside the buildings?