Colborn and Lenk... a couple of questions for experts

[Madeleine74]

Why is the blood inside the SUV not reliable? SA had a cut on his finger, he had access to her SUV, she was on that property and with SA that afternoon. She was never seen again and no one ever heard from her again. The blood in the SUV (2 of the spots identified as 'male') did not test positive for EDTA.

 

[Sustained]

Why is the blood inside the SUV not reliable? SA had a cut on his finger, he had access to her SUV, she was on that property and with SA that afternoon. She was never seen again and no one ever heard from her again. The blood in the SUV (2 of the spots identified as 'male') did not test positive for EDTA.

If I put my "Steven Avery did it" cap on, I'm thinking he might have moved TH's vehicle to the pit in the dark after having it in his garage until everyone went to bed. And if he was bleeding, he might not have noticed the drips/smears he was leaving in the car and the blood near the ignition. However, that does not explain the absence of his prints in the car and on the vehicle unless he was wearing some type of glove.

 

[missy1974]

If I put my "Steven Avery did it" cap on, I'm thinking he might have moved TH's vehicle to the pit in the dark after having it in his garage until everyone went to bed. And if he was bleeding, he might not have noticed the drips/smears he was leaving in the car and the blood near the ignition. However, that does not explain the absence of his prints in the car and on the vehicle unless he was wearing some type of glove.

If I put my SA did it hat on .... I'd go back on the 1st, 2nd, 3rd, or 4th and check and clean it up because I would surely notice the dripping blood from a wound so seriously cut that it is dripping from my glove when I got home... ya know... since it was in my yard.

 

[pittie_mcclure]

Why is the blood inside the SUV not reliable? SA had a cut on his finger, he had access to her SUV, she was on that property and with SA that afternoon. She was never seen again and no one ever heard from her again. The blood in the SUV (2 of the spots identified as 'male') did not test positive for EDTA.

Madeleine, I'm guessing you know why some of us think the blood is unreliable. I have NO snark here, I really respect where you come from with this case and your focus on black and white evidence -- you often make me go back and question my own thought process - but do you think he was wearing gloves to cover his prints and bled through them? When he got home he either didn't notice a big rip in the gloves or thought, who cares? This case isn't any murder case. I think a safe assumption would be that Avery knew he'd be on the radar so would be extra vigilant when attempting to cover his tracks? I know you don't know what he was actually thinking but I'm just wondering.

If I put my "Steven Avery did it" cap on, I'm thinking he might have moved TH's vehicle to the pit in the dark after having it in his garage until everyone went to bed. And if he was bleeding, he might not have noticed the drips/smears he was leaving in the car and the blood near the ignition. However, that does not explain the absence of his prints in the car and on the vehicle unless he was wearing some type of glove.

If he was wearing gloves I would think he would notice a tear by his finger that was already cut, especially if he's that concerned with covering up evidence. I have a cut on my middle finger from trying to cut onions all fancy while sobbing (because they do that to me!) and that sucker stings. It's been 3 days and it still stings. I'd think Avery would be aware of the cut from feeling it and if air hit it from a tear he would feel it even more. JMO, no science here.

If I put my SA did it hat on .... I'd go back on the 1st, 2nd, 3rd, or 4th and check and clean it up because I would surely notice the dripping blood from a wound so seriously cut that it is dripping from my glove when I got home... ya know... since it was in my yard.

I've always wondered about that... Wouldn't Avery have time to make sure about things? Wouldn't he be like ok, I'm on a radar in my small town because of the bad blood (no pun intended) between me and LE so just in case.. I mean if we believe SA did it then some evidence points to
Him trying to cover it up. Other stuff makes it seem like all he wanted was to go back to jail (like leaving the car on the property quite visible). Missy, I find myself on your page so often!

 

[Amber29]

If I put my "Steven Avery did it" cap on, I'm thinking he might have moved TH's vehicle to the pit in the dark after having it in his garage until everyone went to bed. And if he was bleeding, he might not have noticed the drips/smears he was leaving in the car and the blood near the ignition. However, that does not explain the absence of his prints in the car and on the vehicle unless he was wearing some type of glove.

Who's finger prints were found in the car?

Fingerprints IMO are like DNA. They are hard to recover and often are unidentifiable or partials. They are a definite bonus to investigators. The CSI effect is real for sure and reading threads about this case has proven that to me. A lack of his fingerprints in the car don't surprise me at all. I've followed MANY cases where fingerprints of the killer weren't discovered.

 

[MysticJynx]

Why is the blood inside the SUV not reliable? SA had a cut on his finger, he had access to her SUV, she was on that property and with SA that afternoon. She was never seen again and no one ever heard from her again. The blood in the SUV (2 of the spots identified as 'male') did not test positive for EDTA.

I believe I heard that since the Avery Trial Wisconsin has changed their ways. If the trial happened today, that FBI test for EDTA would not have been accepted in as evidence. Had they changed their ways prior to SA's case it wouldn't have been used as evidence against Avery. The EDTA test is unreliable since it was never subjected to peer review and duplicated with the same results. Or something to that effect.

I do not trust the FBI test for EDTA. THis was a rushed test that wasn't used in 10 years. Why was the FBI not looking into the misconduct that SA was saying was happening via news. I am starting to believe that LE sticks together no matter how high or low on the chain you are.

 

[MysticJynx]

Who's finger prints were found in the car?

Fingerprints IMO are like DNA. They are hard to recover and often are unidentifiable or partials. They are a definite bonus to investigators. The CSI effect is real for sure and reading threads about this case has proven that to me. A lack of his fingerprints in the car don't surprise me at all. I've followed MANY cases where fingerprints of the killer weren't discovered.

8 finger prints still not matched to anyone. Believe SA mentioned them to KK when KK was wanting SA to confess so KK could write a book.

 

[missy1974]

Who's finger prints were found in the car?

Fingerprints IMO are like DNA. They are hard to recover and often are unidentifiable or partials. They are a definite bonus to investigators. The CSI effect is real for sure and reading threads about this case has proven that to me. A lack of his fingerprints in the car don't surprise me at all. I've followed MANY cases where fingerprints of the killer weren't discovered.

I believe SA has been asking that same question for about 10 years.

 

[Amber29]

8 finger prints still not matched to anyone. Believe SA mentioned them to KK when KK was wanting SA to confess so KK could write a book.

So none of the prints were even matched to vehicle owner?

 

[missy1974]

fyi... the idea that there are fingerprints that were not identified is why I was wondering if LE is fingerprinted... and in the system. Or maybe those fingerprints weren't there in 2005, but are in 2015.

 

[missy1974]

reference to the fingerprints that SA asked him to check.

 

[Amber29]

reference to the fingerprints that SA asked him to check.

View attachment 88413

Where are the court document about the fingerprints recovered from the SUV?

 

[pittie_mcclure]

reference to the fingerprints that SA asked him to check.

View attachment 88413

Talk about somebody with a savior complex. That letter is disgusting.

I'm sure you'll come up with court documents but I've read in numerous places that prints were recovered from the vehicle and were only tested against a very small pool of suspects provided by Wiegert and Fassbender.

 

[missy1974]

I will have a look for the fingerprint dude's testimony lol I know I read it or part of it at some point, because I remember that he only fingerprinted what they sent him or something like that.... and the defense asked him if he fingerprinted any of the bullet casings that were recovered, and he did not because they weren't sent to him or he wasn't asked too IIRC. It seems like forever ago that I read that! LOL

 

[Madeleine74]

One way to not leave fingerprints, but inadvertently leave blood:

Not wearing gloves, but carrying and using a rag or paper towel or something so that your fingers are on the item, thus not leaving prints. The cut on the top/side of his finger would still be open, not covered up, and if that cut was bleeding at that point, the blood could be deposited. These weren't big drops deposited, more like swipes.

If you recall, when Nikole (Pam Strum's daughter) approached the SUV to see if the doors were locked, she used a tissue in her hand to check the door latch. She didn't leave any of her prints there. She told LE about this and testified to it in court.

 

[missy1974]

Fingerprint dude is Michael Riddle
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B9dpNu3jLO3tVmN3R0JHM0pMTm8/view
starts on page 95
Fingerprints were only compared to what the guy was given. He did NOT have a standard for TH. He had 8 good prints from the RAV4. The fingerprints did NOT match any of the Avery's that were fingerprinted and compared. They were NOT compared to Lenk/Colburn.

This guy was also not given the gun or casings to try to fingerprint. He only fingerprinted and compared what he was told.

 

[missy1974]

those look like drops or pretend drops.

 

[MysticJynx]

View attachment 88423

those look like drops or pretend drops.

How come they didn't test that spot on the floor there. From what I understand the spot they tested was in the front passengers seat.

 

[missy1974]

How come they didn't test that spot on the floor there. From what I understand the spot they tested was in the front passengers seat.

I know right LOL I was trying to figure out the 6 "spots" one day. Let me go back and see if I figured it out, I don't think I did though. The passenger seat and the driver seat were "cuts" not swabs. The rear seat, I only seen that the one on the metal door frame was swabbed. I'll be back.... LOL

 

[MysticJynx]

I know right LOL I was trying to figure out the 6 "spots" one day. Let me go back and see if I figured it out, I don't think I did though. The passenger seat and the driver seat were "cuts" not swabs. The rear seat, I only seen that the one on the metal door frame was swabbed. I'll be back.... LOL

I put those six things in one of these threads.