Connecticut school district on lockdown after shooting report at a Newtown elemen #11

[LambChop]

I don't know if she bought him a gun, but my point is, I don't think it is appropriate or safe in ANY way for a 4 y/o to be handling a firearm, let alone shooting practice.
Also even if her husband only came home on rare occasions, it would seem impossible to think he did not have ANY knowledge of his kids shooting practice with NL. just sayin.
I believe records do show that once in school professional help was attempted.

If this child did not communicate well it is possible his father did not know. Unless the father comes forward and admits he encouraged it we really don't know how much involvement he had with his son. It's not uncommon for executives to be away from home a lot. We do not know enough about the father to discuss or create rumors. It really isn't fair to him to do so.

I do not believe an in school professional would be considered a help at the level AL needed help. If he had been sent to a specialized school (and I know Connecticut has them because I lived there) they would have been in a position to recommend he get professional help. Also respective of the income of this family we can only assume they had excellent medical coverage so what else did the Mom do to get AL help. Or did she insist on doing it all herself. Just from those few emails she certainly appears as someone who seemed to brag how she could handle anything. So did her ego keep her from asking for professional help thinking she could handle it all herself? jmo

 

[jjenny]

I've always wondered if something particular happened in Adam's home that 'set him off' ? Like, was Nancy planning to have him committed and he found out ?

If I was single and had a son that age with his problems, I don't know that I'd allow him to only communicate via email when we both lived in the same house ! As far as I'm concerned, the kid does not 'run the show' ; the parent should.
Keep in mind I am unfamiliar with Aspergers'.

Hard to say much when none of us have walked in Nancy's shoes. Only speaking for myself, here.

No, she was not planning to get him committed. She was going to buy him yet another gun as Christmas present.

 

[LambChop]

No, she was not planning to get him committed. She was going to buy him yet another gun as Christmas present.

And according to what I read so far in the police report it appears no one suspected he had a fixation with mass murderers. Just the mother. jmo

 

[x_files]

Dare I say, this was not a single woman raising her son, at this time. Ahem.

Dad is to blame as well for being absent. I have no idea if he contributed to the gun purchasing.
I have nothing against single moms, but NL really wasn't paying attention to all the red flags. I wonder if she also suffered from a form of mental illness?

 

[4MYGUYS]

If this child did not communicate well it is possible his father did not know. Unless the father comes forward and admits he encouraged it we really don't know how much involvement he had with his son. It's not uncommon for executives to be away from home a lot. We do not know enough about the father to discuss or create rumors. It really isn't fair to him to do so.

I do not believe an in school professional would be considered a help at the level AL needed help. If he had been sent to a specialized school (and I know Connecticut has them because I lived there) they would have been in a position to recommend he get professional help. Also respective of the income of this family we can only assume they had excellent medical coverage so what else did the Mom do to get AL help. Or did she insist on doing it all herself. Just from those few emails she certainly appears as someone who seemed to brag how she could handle anything. So did her ego keep her from asking for professional help thinking she could handle it all herself? jmo

No I do not want to create rumors either.
But my beliefs are such that if you bring a child into this world, no matter the level of your profession, it is your duty to involve yourself in the proper
upbringing of that child. For me it doesn't excuse anyone, even if you are the President of the United States, your first duty is to your child. It is your duty and responsibility to make time and remain involved. I don't know what happened here either and I am not accusing nor trying to sound as such.

How this family unit, (father, mother and 2 sons) operated early on is still not known. I will simply leave it at that. eace:

 

[LambChop]

No I do not want to create rumors either.
But my beliefs are such that if you bring a child into this world, no matter the level of your profession, it is your duty to involve yourself in the proper
upbringing of that child. For me it doesn't excuse anyone, even if you are the President of the United States, your first duty is to your child. It is your duty and responsibility to make time and remain involved. I don't know what happened here either and I am not accusing nor trying to sound as such.

How this family unit, (father, mother and 2 sons) operated early on is still not known. I will simply leave it at that. eace:

According to the police report there is no one who actually saw anything that would have alerted them to his behavior and it appears that his behavior got worse when he lost touch with his Dad and brother. It was AL who made that choice to distance himself. Maybe because the father remarried. Kids at that age sometimes do that because they feel betrayed that the father would want another life. If all contact was shut off by AL there isn't much anyone could have done other than his mother to get him help or to encourage him to spend time with his Dad. From statements in the police report his father and brother appeared to have still maintained contact with him and enjoyed activities until he turned 18. At 18 AL was making his own decisions.

NL was the one who knew his behavior was getting dangerous but she never alerted anyone other than a few friends. I'm sure she thought she still had some time left to try and reverse his behavior and she was wrong paying the ultimate price. That responsibility rests solely on her shoulders if she never told anyone what she found in AL's room. There is no way anyone could have known since she never permitted people to come into her home.

What is interesting is what AL stated to a friend about his mother. That she was not normal and it irritated him. AL may have felt deserted by his dad and his brother, leaving him in the care of mother who he obviously grew to hate. But certainly if the father and older brother were not permitted to contact him they could hardly know what was going on in the household unless the mother advised them of what AL was up to. Does not sound at all as if this ever happened. jmo

 

[4MYGUYS]

According to the police report there is no one who actually saw anything that would have alerted them to his behavior and it appears that his behavior got worse when he lost touch with his Dad and brother. It was AL who made that choice to distance himself. Maybe because the father remarried. Kids at that age sometimes do that because they feel betrayed that the father would want another life. If all contact was shut off by AL there isn't much anyone could have done other than his mother to get him help or to encourage him to spend time with his Dad. From statements in the police report his father and brother appeared to have still maintained contact with him and enjoyed activities until he turned 18. At 18 AL was making his own decisions.

NL was the one who knew his behavior was getting dangerous but she never alerted anyone other than a few friends. I'm sure she thought she still had some time left to try and reverse his behavior and she was wrong paying the ultimate price. That responsibility rests solely on her shoulders if she never told anyone what she found in AL's room. There is no way anyone could have known since she never permitted people to come into her home.

What is interesting is what AL stated to a friend about his mother. That she was not normal and it irritated him. AL may have felt deserted by his dad and his brother, leaving him in the care of mother who he obviously grew to hate. But certainly if the father and older brother were not permitted to contact him they could hardly know what was going on in the household unless the mother advised them of what AL was up to. Does not sound at all as if this ever happened. jmo

Thank you LambChop
I can only now look to the future for my own children, and try to find some reasoning behind this terrible loss of young life, and in doing so, I still cannot fully give a pass to either parent. I do believe AL's descent could have been prevented early on, and there were 2 adults in this household during early childhood. By the time he was an adult it was too late.
For my family I would start my intervention by not allowing 4 year olds to handle firearms or practice shooting guns. I would make sure when they were old enough, they would follow all legal and safety measures. I would also make sure that if my spouse or any family member was taking my young children shooting, it would stop, or I would get professionals to force this to stop. I would know what was going on in my family because I spend significant amounts of time with them, frequently, in meaningful ways. I would also provide financial support by working in such a way that it would be possible to spend time with them, while continuing my career or profession. I would put my children above all else.
That is what I want for my children.

 

[lawstudent]

Sorry about the racial implication - I meant it as a sociological comment, not a biological one. Absolutely do not believe race is an indicator of violence in any way.

And I agree Lanza seems different than others, now that I keep looking into his background. That stare he had. The Aurora shooter kind of had it, but I've never seen it anywhere else. That's not Asperger's alone. Some other major mental defect was going on, perhaps similar to the Aurora shooter's, in that they both targeted such innocent people with no relation to them or any political/social cause. Both seemed to display Asperger's and schizophrenic traits - I wonder if there is another rare disorder that mimics both, or if these two just don't mix at all.

 

[Isabelle]

Dad is to blame as well for being absent. I have no idea if he contributed to the gun purchasing.
I have nothing against single moms, but NL really wasn't paying attention to all the red flags. I wonder if she also suffered from a form of mental illness?

Very shortly after this massacre, I read that when the dad and mom divorced, the judge stripped the dad of any involvement in AL's care. He was to have no input or decision making whatsoever. If I had a link I would post it, but I would never make this up. Thanks

ETA: Hope this link is ok. See 7th paragraph from the bottom: (did could have input, but NL could veto his input as she had the final decision.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/17/nancy-lanza-peter-lanza-divorce_n_2316461.html

 

[twall]

I read the reports that came out last week, I had to skip over some of the things being said as the LE entered the building. It was so sad. I don't think I can listen to the 911 calls, but maybe I could read some I can skip over things I just can't bare to read.

The calls released weren't bad at all...the only disturbing things I heard were the shooter's suicide shot when the custodian was on the line and approx. 6-8 rapid shots when the woman from the office called. She was breathing a bit heavy and sounded slightly panicked but everyone else sounded calm considering the situation. The Columbine recording with the woman in the library was much worse. :moo:

 

[Sonya610]

I do believe AL's descent could have been prevented early on, and there were 2 adults in this household during early childhood.

Apparently his mental state took a nose dive during the last couple of years. Before that he was odd BUT he entered college at 16 and got good grades, he had a part time job repairing computers and he did well at it (until the company closed down), and even though he had social issues good grades and a job mean he was functioning pretty well.

http://www.heavy.com/news/2013/04/adam-lanza-college-records-new-photo/

 

[LambChop]

Thank you LambChop
I can only now look to the future for my own children, and try to find some reasoning behind this terrible loss of young life, and in doing so, I still cannot fully give a pass to either parent. I do believe AL's descent could have been prevented early on, and there were 2 adults in this household during early childhood. By the time he was an adult it was too late.
For my family I would start my intervention by not allowing 4 year olds to handle firearms or practice shooting guns. I would make sure when they were old enough, they would follow all legal and safety measures. I would also make sure that if my spouse or any family member was taking my young children shooting, it would stop, or I would get professionals to force this to stop. I would know what was going on in my family because I spend significant amounts of time with them, frequently, in meaningful ways. I would also provide financial support by working in such a way that it would be possible to spend time with them, while continuing my career or profession. I would put my children above all else.
That is what I want for my children.

But it appears that as a family early on they did nothing illegal. Also there are many children who learn to shoot a rifle or shotgun early in their teens for hunting reasons. Certainly not 4 years old. It does not appear that his mother did anything wrong by taking him to the shooting range to learn how to handle a gun. She had full control of his activities according to what the judge ruled. That left the influence of anyone else out of the picture as NL seemed to have gone along with isolating him from having any healthy relationships whatsoever. That made NL solely responsible with the help of a judge. From what we now know she was the last person who ever should have been in charge of her son. jmo

 

[jjenny]

Apparently his mental state took a nose dive during the last couple of years. Before that he was odd BUT he entered college at 16 and got good grades, he had a part time job repairing computers and he did well at it (until the company closed down), and even though he had social issues good grades and a job mean he was functioning pretty well.

http://www.heavy.com/news/2013/04/adam-lanza-college-records-new-photo/

He seemed to have been able to function somewhat normally early on. Appears it all went downhill in latest years.
He certainly wasn't functioning well in closer proximity to the mass shootings. He woudlnt' leave the house, he sat in his room most of the time and communicated with his own mother by e-mail. He stopped communicating with his father and brother a couplde of years prior to the shooting. I am not sure what exactly people think either father or brother could have done. AL was an adult at the time he stopped communication. Nobody could force him to talk to his father or brother.

 

[Trident]

Sorry about the racial implication - I meant it as a sociological comment, not a biological one. Absolutely do not believe race is an indicator of violence in any way.

And I agree Lanza seems different than others, now that I keep looking into his background. That stare he had. The Aurora shooter kind of had it, but I've never seen it anywhere else. That's not Asperger's alone. Some other major mental defect was going on, perhaps similar to the Aurora shooter's, in that they both targeted such innocent people with no relation to them or any political/social cause. Both seemed to display Asperger's and schizophrenic traits - I wonder if there is another rare disorder that mimics both, or if these two just don't mix at all.

BBM - that stare is an autistic stare. I know, I have it. When one stares like that, they are not there, in the moment, they are nowhere, in limbo - not a horrible place, but not really here either.

Just my opinion from having stared in the same way.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

I think we can look for someone to blame but the truth is it does not change anything. Adam was to blame. He and he alone. There is something really different about a person who wants to kill children to exact revenge or make a statement. That he had guns in the house, or he was allowed to shoot is not the problem. Someone like him would have found another way. It is the action of going to the school with the intent to kill children that is the factor in the killing that matters most here.

Parents don't always do the right thing, And the smart thing.. but they are humans and make mistakes.. But they are not responsible for him killing innocents. That is his and his alone.

We want to blame so many others any more for the actions of one. Lets just look at that one and say.. YOU are to blame. His mother was a victim too. That he killed her to me means that he felt she had the power to stop him or change his mind. That is just my opinion but how I feel. Sometimes evil just is.

 

[LambChop]

I think we can look for someone to blame but the truth is it does not change anything. Adam was to blame. He and he alone. There is something really different about a person who wants to kill children to exact revenge or make a statement. That he had guns in the house, or he was allowed to shoot is not the problem. Someone like him would have found another way. It is the action of going to the school with the intent to kill children that is the factor in the killing that matters most here.

Parents don't always do the right thing, And the smart thing.. but they are humans and make mistakes.. But they are not responsible for him killing innocents. That is his and his alone.

We want to blame so many others any more for the actions of one. Lets just look at that one and say.. YOU are to blame. His mother was a victim too. That he killed her to me means that he felt she had the power to stop him or change his mind. That is just my opinion but how I feel. Sometimes evil just is.

I think this is very true. From what we have seen lately with young adults committing these types of crimes it appears the families were just not capable and informed enough to foresee their child killing anyone. Even if the mother had notified LE that her son's behavior was off he was not breaking any laws at the time. So she was pretty powerless to prevent him from putting his plan into action.

At the very least releasing this information may help another parent who could be dealing with the same situation with their child and encourage them to go for help.

Are there support groups that she could have gone to for help?

 

[Cherry]

Did she actually buy the gun from him or was she allowing him to shoot the friend's gun? She seemed very close to this man so maybe her attraction to guns had a lot to do with her friendship with ML. Something they had in common. Her husband seemed, from her descriptions in the emails, to have never been home. Always working. She certainly was high maintenance with all her activities and expenses she appeared to have had. She being a stay at home Mom and her husband working 14 hours a day essentially she was raising him alone. It does not appear she sacrificed herself in any way to get him the help he needed that we can see. Do we even know if she was getting professional help for him? Hopefully more information will come out.

I felt that her isolation; and her trips alone out of town without him spoke volumes of what she was going thru; living with him. Trying to keep it together.....but failing and knowing it. He wasn't "right" and she knew.......she knew. No one was allowed inside the home from what I recall. No visitors. Now we know why. It's like she was hiding a huge secret. The mental health field to me is a huge failure and has been for far too long. We no longer take care of people; we only care if their insurance will last two weeks for a bed, after that; the families and friends and loved ones are pushed right out the doors of most hospitals. We do not care.

I believe that she couldn't get the help for him because of this situ with the Insurance Co's. Let alone; what our "mental health care" has become....to me it's based on nonsense. Like SSRIs.

 

[Cherry]

I also think that she thought his only "hobby" was the gun thing; so she went along with it; but I'm 100% positive in my gut as a mother she had to know this was wrong. It's sad. If only someone had noticed and actually helped her out; with him. If only.

 

[HMSHood]

I happen to look at this link.
http://www.heavy.com/news/2013/12/newtown-an-american-tragedy-sandy-hook-book-review/

It says Adam Lanza had more severe warning signs than Jared Loughner or James Holmes. I always thought someone like Loughner or Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold had more severe warning signs because they were around people, unlike Lanza, who was isolated at home. Harris and Klebold were known to bully other people.
http://www.schoolshooters.info/PL/Subject-Harris-Klebold_files/The Search for Truth at Columbine.pdf

Also, Nancy Lanza kept shuffling him around. I think that is really a bad idea for him as he needs stability.

 

[x_files]

Very shortly after this massacre, I read that when the dad and mom divorced, the judge stripped the dad of any involvement in AL's care. He was to have no input or decision making whatsoever. If I had a link I would post it, but I would never make this up. Thanks

ETA: Hope this link is ok. See 7th paragraph from the bottom: (did could have input, but NL could veto his input as she had the final decision.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/17/nancy-lanza-peter-lanza-divorce_n_2316461.html

That's rather strange he'd have no rights.
I guess we can't blame the dad, he at least tried at one point.