Connecticut school district on lockdown after shooting report at a Newtown elemen #5

[MyBelle]

I didn't say they were convicted of a crime. The appointed judge in my city didn't charge them with a crime when they came before him but gave then NGRI and sent them to our very excellent state hospital forensics unit where they got excellent treatment.

Police arrest and prosecutors charge crimes, not judges. And I fail to see how a Judge can order someone to a state hospital if they haven't been convicted of a crime.

JMO

 

[Kimster]

Unfortunately, I think your idea of "handled correctly" and that of law enforcement differ greatly. Cops are trained to protect the public and protect themselves first and foremost. I'm glad it worked out for your friend but lock-up detention facilities are not the right place to treat mental illnesses in children. We've got an inmate with the disorder and he spends a lot of time in the "hole." He's got some serious issues with confinement.

JMO

Yes, it probably does vary greatly from jurisdiction to jurisdiction. We need to educate country-wide in order to prevent the risk of this happening again.

 

[MyBelle]

Yes, it probably does vary greatly from jurisdiction to jurisdiction. We need to educate country-wide in order to prevent the risk of this happening again.

I totally agree. And what we still don't know is what help, if any, Adam's mother sought.

 

[KMouse]

"If handled correctly" is the operative part of my previous post.

In the case of the adult Aspie, he was a batterer. After spending time in jail - and then suffering the consequences of his arrest - he never hit another woman again until his dying day. He was done with that and done with jail and being on the wrong side of the law.

It's not going to work for every situation, but I sure don't like seeing the conversation sway to the side where Aspies shouldn't be held accountable for their behavior.

If somebody has broken the law the police have to charge. They do not have discretion. It's up to the courts to be discretionary.

 

[KMouse]

Police arrest and prosecutors charge crimes, not judges. And I fail to see how a Judge can order someone to a state hospital if they haven't been convicted of a crime.

JMO

Depending where you live they can order a psychiatric hold pending an assessment.

 

[wfgodot]

The U.S. Postal Service has established an address where people can send letters of condolence to the people of Newtown, the service's Maureen Marion tells CNN. Here is the address:

Message of Condolence
PO Box 3700
Newtown, CT 06470

http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2012/12/17/first-funerals-today-for-children-killed-at-connecticut-school/

 

[MissJ]

Police arrest and prosecutors charge crimes, not judges. And I fail to see how a Judge can order someone to a state hospital if they haven't been convicted of a crime.

JMO

I said they weren't convicted but were NGRI! That means Not Guilty by reason of Insanity and their sentence is to spend X amount of time in mental health hospitals. Because they remain a threat to themselves or others. But yes judges can and frequently do order people to be held in a state hospital on a regular basis. So regular that he has a courtroom in the hospital and reviews cases twice a week. Otherwise no one could be kept over 72 hours for an eval unless they were voluntary. How else could the public be protected from mentally ill who are on the streets and violent?

 

[Pensfan]

What's that? Not to validate the <modsnip> blogger, but I know from experience in dealing with a mentally ill person who is non compliant the only way to get them into a facility is to have them arrested and put on a 5150 hold. I wish there had been a rescue squad I could have called for my mom!

Some countries, like Australia, have mental health ambulances.

 

[gngr~snap]

I'm still chewing on this one too. The Columbine killers were bullied and I think the VA Tech killer was as well, right?

I do not have a link (yet) so take this FWIW
I did hear on CNN about an 1 1/2 -2 hours ago that Lanza was NOT
listed as being in the public school system until 9th grade. 2007? I believe

That is not to say that he didn't go to a private school where he was bullied...:moo:

 

[belimom]

I haven't commented on this thread yet and not sure if this has been said.

Being a School Psychologist, I work with many troubled kids. I know that many parents seek mental health care for their kids that is often non-existentent or insufficient.

However - and I want to say this the right way since his mother lost her own life here: receiving approx. $280,000 a year in alimony is plenty enough to provide the best team of doctors for her son. And more than enough to provide a gun safe/cabinet.

We've heard from a teacher or two who said that Adam would sometimes take flight from the school. We've heard from a past sitter who said the mom told him to never turn his back on Adam (when he was much younger).

We don't know how he got ahold of the guns or if he was getting any psychiatric treatment, but an terrible tragedy will get even more horrific if it turns out that (1) the guns were not locked up, or (2) he was not getting any psychiatric care.

 

[epiphany]

I call bs on that nydailynews article and the source. JMO

There's also this:

Ms. Lanza ate at My Place, the local bar, as much as three days a week and enjoyed a craft beer or two with her meal, said bartender Michael Agius, 26. "She was just a part of the bar family over there," he said. "She was such a friendly person."

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887324481204578181244231543014.html

 

[MissJ]

The psychiatrist can order a hold but a judge must order anything more than the evaluation period. It has nothing to do with the prosecutor. Police bring them in.

 

[toscaxyz]

I am curious about the report from the ATF that both Nancy and Adam Lanza went to shooting ranges, together and separately. Would Adam have been legally allowed to shoot at a range without a gun that was licensed to him? I thought that he was too young to own a firearm in Connecticut, so he would have to have brought one of this mother's guns. I don't know how shooting ranges work, but I would think that would not be legal.

 

[Pensfan]

This woman wrote a blog entry with the name of a recent mass murderer and said she was his mother. She directly linked her son with AL. What kind of self esteem or strength or state of mind can that kid possibly be getting there? The more I think about what this woman did, the more it just sickens me.

She also isn't telling the complete truth. There are many mediations available that could sedate a Tyrannosaurus Rex. This mom CHOOSES not to give her allegedly violent son such antipsychotic medication.

This mom has a blog where she has written cruel posts about her children in which she fantasizes about beating them, locking them up and giving them away. On her blog, her allegedly violent son is presented as a normal boy who makes her furious by being messy, buying excessive MacIntosh products and supporting democrats.

I refuse to post this wench's blog address, but you can google it under Anarchist Soccer Mom. Oh yeah.....her blog has advertisements on it. I wonder if she bashed her son and then went on NBC with her "story" for $$$$$$$ reasons.

 

[wfgodot]

No easy answers. Rebecca Mead, in The New Yorker:

Newtown: What to tell the children?

 

[Abby Normal Again]

I am slightly disturbed by the blog post "I am Adam Lanza's mother" because the mother is basically making a very public prediction that her son is going to do something very bad and I'm worried about it becoming a self-fulfilling prophecy. Negative parental expectations sometimes have that effect on children as children may decide that if their parents don't expect anything good of them then there's no reason to try to achieve anything good. If parental expectations aren't bad enough, now this child has people world wide talking about him and speculating what evil things may come to pass yet.

I hope they get the help they need.

It was a powerful message that many needed to read. I think it should have been done anonymously. No son should ever have such words immortalized by their mother. Would you let your son be his friend if you lived in the same town?

Jmo

 

[21merc7]

I am curious about the report from the ATF that both Nancy and Adam Lanza went to shooting ranges, together and separately. Would Adam have been legally allowed to shoot at a range without a gun that was licensed to him? I thought that he was too young to own a firearm in Connecticut, so he would have to have brought one of this mother's guns. I don't know how shooting ranges work, but I would think that would not be legal.

I have no idea, but I would GUESS he was a member. The owner's would know him and allow him to shoot if they had that type of arrangement. At some of the gun ranges here, you can rent/borrow one of the company guns for your time there. You just turn it back in when finished.

If AL was a member and allowed to shoot on his own, he may have had full access to the family guns, if he brought a gun with him.

We just don't know about any of this yet. Any article that said they went together and separately could have simply meant mom would go alone sometimes, maybe AL never went alone.

 

[belimom]

&#8220;I Am Adam Lanza&#8217;s Mother&#8221;: When Parents Are Afraid of Their Children

By Susanna SchrobsdorffDec. 17, 2012

Read more: http://healthland.time.com/2012/12/...s-are-afraid-of-their-children/#ixzz2FJcxpJ9f

I read this and forwarded it and shared it on Facebook, as well as the School Psychologist's response as shared on FB:

"I am a School Psychologist. And I just learned that my colleague gave her life in the ultimate example of love for the students we help.

You see, when your son Michael* misses school...I notice. That's because we have talked many times and you have trusted me enough to share the times that Michael called you names and pulled a knife threatening to kill someone. I have cried with you and I have counseled you, but there are times that we laughed and celebrated good days with Michael. On those days, I was the one who welcomed him when he came into the school. Sometimes we started the day and finished the day in my office.

I remember the day you took him to the hospital. I tried calling the psychiatric hospital on your behalf and had to deliver the news that there were no beds available. They wanted to hear his diagnosis and know what insurance you had but it didn't help open a bed that day.

Do you remember, I was the one who tested Michael and confirmed what you always knew...Michael is brilliant. He has such an amazing memory and fund of information. He has a unique sense of humor and was great one-on-one in my office. I wish more people could see that side of him.

I wrote a behavioral plan that outlined all his triggers and laid out strategies for when he was not in a good mood. They worked most days but this process takes time. Unfortunately, I have so many families to help after Michael leaves my office.

I was also the school professional who thought that middle school might be a better fit for Michael. The teachers at that level are so much more understanding and manage teenage emotional swings so well. I counseled the teachers, advised the assistant principal, and reassured the other students that Michael was &#8216;working&#8217; on his behavior. I fielded the calls from other parents who were upset that Michael was in their child&#8217;s classroom. Fortunately, I knew so much about Michael that I could raise awareness about his struggles and how hard you were trying to make this better.

Then I was the one who first called to tell you that we had to try a new program for Michael. Our choices are so limited. We used to have a good program in the district that I supervised so I knew the teachers and all the families who were dealing with the same issues. But because of budget cuts, we had to send him 40 minutes away to a program that I know less about.

That morning of the pants incident, I was grateful for the way you parented Michael. We had talked numerous times about consistency, rewards, and consequences. You responded in a way that over time is designed to help reinforce better coping strategies and reduce the tantrums. I supported your decision to do this because it was the &#8216;advanced&#8217; parenting you were taught. Unfortunately, it doesn&#8217;t take away the pain of responding in this way. I heard you crying when you told me that you wish your hug and love could heal him. I know you just want to help him get better and do whatever you can&#8230;I do too.

The National Alliance on Mental Illness released State Mental Health Cuts: A National Crisis, a report documenting deep cuts to state spending on services for children and adults living with serious mental illness. These cuts, which occurred between 2009 and 2011, led to significant reductions in both hospital and community services for vulnerable individuals with serious mental illness. And for many the only help they do receive is in their public schools.

I know the social worker gave you advice you hate to hear, but you must understand that they are just as frustrated as you and I. They are helpers and partners in this struggle. For every one of those tortured souls we see on the news, a school psychologist says I could have helped that child&#8230;I want to help that child.

Today, the crisis in mental health continues. The impacts are felt throughout society as people go without the treatment they need. Addressing problems before they escalate or become chronic is less costly over time than intensive remedial services or negative outcomes such as dropping out of school, delinquency, incarceration, or worse.

Thank you for starting this conversation, there needs to be a national discussion on mental health. It IS the only way our nation can ever truly heal.
God bless you. God bless Michael. God help us all.

*name changed because we have still not reduced the stigma around mental illness nor done a very good job at getting others to understand what we know&#8230;that treatment can prevent this."
​

HOWEVER... I then read this blog:

http://sarahkendzior.com/2012/12/16/want-the-truth-behind-i-am-adam-lanzas-mother-read-her-blog/

"...Liza Long, the woman who wrote the viral post &#8220;I Am Adam Lanza&#8217;s Mother&#8221;, is being held up as a heroic woman warranting sympathy for bring the plight of her mentally ill son to the public.

Her blog tells a different story. Long has written a series of vindictive and cruel posts about her children in which she fantasizes about beating them, locking them up and giving them away. In most posts, her allegedly insane and violent son is portrayed as a normal boy who incites her wrath by being messy, buying too many Apple products and supporting Obama...."

 

[popsicle]

I have HLN on and they just mentioned that within the past hour or two several police cars sped past them towards NL's house. They said no lights are visible from the front of the house which makes them believe they are either in the back part of the house or in the basement if there is one. Anyone else hear anything about this?

 

[gngr~snap]

I am curious about the report from the ATF that both Nancy and Adam Lanza went to shooting ranges, together and separately. Would Adam have been legally allowed to shoot at a range without a gun that was licensed to him? I thought that he was too young to own a firearm in Connecticut, so he would have to have brought one of this mother's guns. I don't know how shooting ranges work, but I would think that would not be legal.

He could go alone
Guests can use their own guns, or try out a rental gun from our large selection ... *You must be 18 years old and possess a current picture CT ID to shoot a ...
http://www.hoffgun.com/RangeInfoSheet.pdf

He could own a "gun"
Who can own a shotgun or rifle in Connecticut?
You must be 18-years old to purchase a rifle or shotgun. No permits are required to purchase or carry these guns, however there is a 2-week waiting period from the date of purchase to the time you receive your gun.
http://statelaws.net/Connecticut-Gun-Laws.php