Conrad Murray trial -Day eight.

[octobermoon]

Forgive me, I missed it, but who is this Winters guy and why is it important where he is now? Did he screw up something? I haven't followed this case since MJ's death.

 

[joe jones]

Forgive me, I missed it, but who is this Winters guy and why is it important where he is now? Did he screw up something? I haven't followed this case since MJ's death.

he was Ms Fleaks supervisor on the scene, and did other scene visits when she was not present

I am wondering if state will call him, if not defence has been clever in insinuating state has something to hide and that's why they are not calling him

I think the defence atty has finally been roused and is beginning to actually defend CM

 

[joe jones]

anybody know if CM has money and how he is paying for at least 3 defence attys plus investigators

 

[octobermoon]

he was Ms Fleaks supervisor on the scene, and did other scene visits when she was not present

I am wondering if state will call him, if not defence has been clever in insinuating state has something to hide and that's why they are not calling him

I think the defence atty has finally been roused and is beginning to actually defend CM

Thank you

Although I do think so far that Dr. M is guilty, I really dislike the state trying to conceal important info. I want him to have a fair trial with all the facts.

 

[Talina]

From what I heard while I was able to listen while doing the kitchen chores, it appears to me that the prosecution has some damage control do to on redirect. The def has asks some questions of the investigator that have damaged some areas of her investigation IMO.

I don't care for the def atty's demeanor at all but he has done a good job at cross examination and the issue with the bottle of propofol is very important, I would think. However, it is conceivable to me that the bottle could have fallen out of the cut in the bag while all this was going on putting these items in the bag. If the investigator didn't see it that way when it was in the bag is no big deal to me, but she certainly shouldn't say she saw it that way if she didn't. I'm not sure I believe she saw it that way now that I've heard the cross. Will have to wait on redirect to see if there is a reasonable explanation for the report being revised.

 

[borndem]

Def asking about witness removing bags and placing items on table for photographing.

Witness confirming yes, this is what happened but does not recall specifically if it was her or a LAPD detective that removed and photo'd the items but that she was there when it all occurred.

Def showing photo that he has entered into evidence. Witness says this is a photo that came out of blue cosco bag.

Def keeps asking witness every she move was making while this evidence was being taken out of bag and photographed. She answers observing, taking notes, taking some photos.

Def entering another photo of same items asking her again if she is the one that took the photo. She does not remember who took it. Again, yet another photo of same various items collected from the bags. (making a big deal it seems to me about why items were in different spots in different photographs - not sure why)

He's doing about all he can do.....trying to make her look incompetent and not smart, doing a less than thorough job, etc., and trying to impeach her testimony -- trying to create doubt, doubt, and doubt.

He's going through a lot of tedium, but he may score a point. We'll see. The judge is calling it closely & not giving him (or any other principal) any latitude. Hizzoner is not missing a thing.

(Baez would have already spontaneously combusted in this courtroom. We'd have lost him on about Day 2. Little pieces of Baez all over the walls...and maybe a slight whimper here or there.)

I just couldn't help myself.

 

[Isabelle]

As a nurse, I have taken notes during a code and then filled out incident forms later, referring to my original notes.
I do not save my original "shorthanded, scrawled" notes, either. Do any of you other nurses?

Neither do I.

 

[MsBashterd]

Good ole doubt casting.

Defense found a weak spot today. Im surprised. Conrad must be as well, his face isnt as long today. Lol. Dont care for him at all. We arent rich and famous but MJ could have been anybodys father brother son. :banghead:

I agree Cortne, I do not find his facial expression and deminure to solicit a compassionate vibe for me. He often loks arrogent and self righteous and on looks alone quite a Las Vegas Lounge singer type.....er maybe a Vegas stripper lounge singer LOL But darn it all if he doesnt have snazzy tie's.

 

[Isabelle]

I know it is SOP, but I really wish they wouldn't destroy notes. JMO

On the other hand if she had kept her notes and they did say the propofol bottle was inside the bag, the DT would say she had time to alter her notes. She's between a rock and hard place!

 

[MsBashterd]

(Baez would have already spontaneously combusted in this courtroom. We'd have lost him on about Day 2. Little pieces of Baez all over the walls...and maybe a slight whimper here or there.)

I just couldn't help myself.

LOL Bash just spit Rockstar Energy drink on her computer and then fell out of her chair Ahhhhh Thank you I needed that :crazy::rocker:

 

[Isabelle]

I still don't understand the bottle of propofol inside the cut saline bag....

That really perplexed me too, and I've been an RN for 26 years. The propofol bottle did not have a loop for hanging, so Murray cut open the saline bag, drained out the saline, put the propofol bottle in the bag and spiked the bottle through the saline port, or through the rubber stopper of the bottle itself. I know that the bottle is not vented, so am wanting to see the IV tubing again to see if there is a vent port on the tubing near or at the top of the drip chamber. This allowed Dr. Murray to deliver propofol via gravity flow! Imagine that! He gets an "A" for creativity!

 

[Talina]

I know it is SOP, but I really wish they wouldn't destroy notes. JMO

IMO, it is best that notes are destroyed after the written reports are completed. Imagine years down the road a crime is finally solved and going to trial. During discovery, notes and full written reports are given over as part of the discovery. Several things could go terribly wrong with notes being part of the discovery. What if the original investigator is no longer around? Someone is going to decipher their writing and scribbling and there is no one to dispute what is being deciphered. Opens up a lot of room for someone to claim they say something they don't, accuse police/det of not writing correct report, etc.

 

[MsBashterd]

That really perplexed me too, and I've been an RN for 26 years. The propofol bottle did not have a loop for hanging, so Murray cut open the saline bag, drained out the saline, put the propofol bottle in the bag and spiked the bottle through the saline port, or through the rubber stopper of the bottle itself. I know that the bottle is not vented, so am wanting to see the IV tubing again to see if there is a vent port on the tubing near or at the top of the drip chamber. This allowed Dr. Murray to deliver propofol via gravity flow! Imagine that! He gets an "A" for creativity!

Ahhhh Thank You!!!! :great: So I give my self B Vitamin shots I have to pull the plunger back and then shoot the air in to the bottle that has a rubber top to get the syring to fill if I dont nothing goes into the syringe. Same Principle Isabelle????????

 

[Isabelle]

Ahhhh Thank You!!!! :great: So I give my self B Vitamin shots I have to pull the plunger back and then shoot the air in to the bottle that has a rubber top to get the syring to fill if I dont nothing goes into the syringe. Same Principle Isabelle????????

Exactly!

 

[peace9274]

That really perplexed me too, and I've been an RN for 26 years. The propofol bottle did not have a loop for hanging, so Murray cut open the saline bag, drained out the saline, put the propofol bottle in the bag and spiked the bottle through the saline port, or through the rubber stopper of the bottle itself. I know that the bottle is not vented, so am wanting to see the IV tubing again to see if there is a vent port on the tubing near or at the top of the drip chamber. This allowed Dr. Murray to deliver propofol via gravity flow! Imagine that! He gets an "A" for creativity!

So did he insert the IV tubing directly into the vial of propofol and used the slit saline bag as a holder for the vial,
so it could hang on the IV pole???

But I still don't see the propofol flowing down the tubing and into a vein.... ???

 

[Isabelle]

If there was no vent port on the IV tubing, Dr. Murray would have had to insert a needle without syringe into the propofol bottle stopper to allow air to enter, thus allowing fluid to escape. Without venting of the propofol bottle, nothing would flow.

 

[Isabelle]

So did he insert the IV tubing directly into the vial of propofol and used the slit saline bag as a holder for the vial, so it could hang on the IV pole???

Either that or he spiked the empty saline bag, then spiked the propofol bottle, sort of double spiked. Don't know that the spike is long enough to do this. Moral of the story is that this drug among many many others is never given by gravity flow.

 

[peace9274]

So did he insert the IV tubing directly into the vial of propofol and used the slit saline bag as a holder for the vial,
so it could hang on the IV pole???

But I still don't see the propofol flowing down the tubing and into a vein.... ???

Why didn't he just empty the saline from the bag and inject the propofol directly into the saline bag?

 

[MsBashterd]

Trying to find the a picture that I believe came out in the Alverez Testimony of the bag with the bottle in it I agree Isabelle it eould have had to have something there provoding air for the milk to flow into the tubing.

 

[peace9274]

Re the IV tubing being moved... from being placed over the knob... if the pole was moved or bumped, the tubing could've slid/slipped off the knob. Without anyone actually doing it.