GUILTY Conrad Murray Trial - Verdict Watch

[octobermoon]

Well. Watta-ya-know!
Only Peace, borndem, octobermom, & oceanblueeyes are here!

Rare that the 4 of us are here at the same time!! (just kidding!)

But no. really... all 3 of you must have other lives besides WS.
(I don't. And it's ok.)

You 3 have husbands!
(I don't. And it's wonderful.)

You must have other things to do on a Sunday.
(I do. But I don't want to do them.)


ETA: COOL! I just noticed that more "users" (?) are here now!
(Why does it call us "users"?? :waitasec: )

Mr. October passed in 2004

BTW he would have loved to be called Mr. October

 

[CarolinaMoon]

I'm here and it's now less than 12 hours wherever you are! Don't ask me to give you the details how I managed to figure that out. All I know is my cats want dinner an hour early! :floorlaugh: Actually, so do I!

I like "falling back" an hour 'cause I get to sleep an extra hour, but I hate that it gets dark by 5 PM.

 

[peace9274]

Good Morning (I can say morning - with us gaining the hour LOL)

Thanks for this. I am going to email my daughter this link. She is a peanut butter lover; who loves gluten free products and is a vegan. I read the description of the white chocolate peanut butter as well as some of the others and I know I can thank you in advance for her. She will absolutely love this site!!!!!! I have to ask her if she has ever been to the shop in Greenwich Village. She is an explorer of these types of places. LOL

I also sent her the link to your son's background on that site. She is currently attending Five Town College studying film, with a minor in journalism and broadcasting.

BBM

I just read the welcome & history pages at the Five Towns College website.
It looks like a fantastic school! Has your daughter decided what she'll do after or before graduating?

I'm not sure if you saw any of the photos of my son's wedding, but it seems like nearly all the
younger guests are in film, theater, TV, and music production of some sort.. so I know there
really are a lot of opportunities out there. My very best of luck to her!!

 

[outofstatelawyer]

[/B]


IIRC, the pastor said in another interview he met CM about a month before trial started. Floored me. :waitasec:

I figured that was probably the answer to the unasked question! The guy was so FOS. And, as peace also mentioned, no mention of Conrad Murray's totally immoral (and non-legal) behavior towards all but one of his children (and I suspect Murray will soon be moving on from Alvarez after he doesn't need a place to stay in LA).

As I said, the source of the courthouse "supporters" was something I'd always wondered about. Now I know.

That advance would have to be pretty large to pay for Murray's defense and his own extravagant lifestyle. The going rate in Houston for a trial of this length would be $100K, cash, upfront. And that would just be Chernoff's fee, not Flanagan's. I cannot imagine that many people would want to see a documentary about Conrad, let alone pay good money to see it.

Well, tomorrow we will have to endure the buzzer panics by HLN again! I suspect we will get a verdict sometime tomorrow though.

 

[peace9274]

Mr. October passed in 2004

BTW he would have loved to be called Mr. October

OH. I'm so sorry, octobermoon. I do remember you telling us... several times.

My brain is kinda not working today. It's the time change.
I'll use that excuse, even tho AZ does not participate in the
"procedure" of changing clocks.

(Get ready for me to use "admonitions" in a sentence.)

 

[octobermoon]

OH. I'm so sorry, octobermoon. I do remember you telling us... several times.

My brain is kinda not working today. It's the time change.
I'll use that excuse, even tho AZ does not participate in the
"procedure" of changing clocks.

(I can't wait to use "admonitions" in a sentence.)

No worries!

I wish all of the US would stop changing the clocks!

 

[borndem]

Good morning!

I just read all your wonderful posts on my Google update. Thanks Button to you all!

I'm not surprised the jury is taking its time. The request for marker pens makes me believe that they are sincerely deliberating and will take their time.

First of all, we've had the opportunity to discuss the case as it's moved along, aided by HLN and IS in the background. We've seen the MSM reports. They haven't. Imagine twelve people who are just starting the discussions we've had?

I hope that one reason for the markers is to compare CM's police statement to the testimony presented during trial. Once they see all the disparities, they can decide whether or not to believe his statements were the "troot" and nothing but! Once they decide that he was only giving self-serving statements with a heap of lies, it would be on to the medical testimony. More markers needed for that.

Finally, they have to look at the testimony about the standards of care violations.

Then, they will have to go through the jury instructions and untangle what they mean in this case.

My order may be out of whack, but I think you all get the idea. Since some of them followed the CA trial, they may also not want to make the mistake that jury made. They obviously didn't ask for markers to compare the testimony, they acted on their "impressions" of it. Now, they are stuck trying to maintain their anonymity even though their names are out there. I'm sure none of them can give any more information about the deliberations than what we have heard... vast generalizations.

This jury will want to be able to say that they went through the testimony in a painstaking manner before coming to a verdict. The fact that a number of them are jury veterans would also prolong the discussion. They want to get it right.

Or, on the other hand, those of you who said they are "sleeping on it" could be quite correct as well!

You're a Good Skate, Carolina Moon!! Good points up there! You sound as it you've been on a jury, too. It does sound like they are trying hard to be good jurors. And this case does carry a tad of notoriety......

But again I say that the charge, while a felony and serious, is not like 1st or 2nd degree murder. And they probably are not trying to swoon too much on the star-studded side, either. Tuff balance. They just need to remember what a doctor's responsibility is to his patient, the oath he took, and the choices he made regardless of what his patient probably ordered or begged him to do. And I hope they don't forget CM's silent but noticeable acknowledgment of criminality -- to the EMS folks and to the ones to whom CM gave his patient to try to bring him back to life. The "I only gave him an aspirin," defense I call it. Pure sleaze, selfishness, and careless disregard of his debt to a fellow human being. He was a doctor!!! Michael trusted him. And he left him to struggle to try to breathe and then die all by himself. Just like it had been all his life.

He knew the rules and he changed them for $5000.00 a day.

now how did this turn into a rant??? invested?? yes, i am. :rant:

 

[borndem]

Well this is so silly but all my life I felt embarassed when someone calls it a 'pee-can.":blushing::blushing:

I guess that is because my great grandmother told me stories about them having to use a pee-can at night when she was growing up.:floorlaugh:

IMO

My grandmother, too, ocean!!! Heck, I've seen a pee-can. My grandmother called it a "slop jar." So there is the North Cackalacky version.

My, we've really gotten a bit home-grown here, huh? And yes, peecan for those best of nuts does sound just like what you said. And walnuts? Never cook with them. I've never bought them. But I have your puhcahns in my fridge right now. I'm never without them. Fry them in a cast iron skillet with salt & butter, and yee-ummm. Good at Christmas, huh?

So glad to hear you and your ribs & spleen are getting along better now! One day at a time, my friend.

And tomorrow -- will that be the day?? Or will we have to wait till Thursday or Friday?? Ack, say it ain't so, Joe!

Where's our next case, folks? Any ideas? Any trials getting warm out there?

 

[borndem]

Carolina - Read your post and thank you for your explanation.

I am one who thought a verdict should have been reached on Friday but then after reading posts by OBE took me back to the 3x I have been a juror and realized in none of them did we deliver a verdict in one day and in all 3 cases - we rendered a guilty verdict. Actually looking back; by the time we elected a foreman, introduced ourselves, familiarized ourselves with the jury instructions and took an initial vote; gave our opinions so we all knew where we agreed; disagreed - the day went pretty quickly from what I recall.

I would think one of the first things they would do after the above; is scrutinize Murray's interview transcript to determine, if in their opinion; he used a drip as that seems to be one of the biggest issues in this case.

bbm

You bring up a good point, Credence, as always, and I hope they do just what you said.

And yes, we do need to give them time to "catch up" -- to discuss all those things/questions that they have all bottled-up in themselves since the first day of the trial. And they couldn't discuss any of them until Friday. That may take a couple of hours, too.

I've never been a juror, but I would think the foreperson could influence things a lot if that were her/his personality. I wouldn't want a waddly wimp for a foreperson, but I wouldn't want an egotistical control freak, either. Especially one with his/her own agenda.
.
How much does a foreperson influence a jury?

 

[borndem]

BBM

I saw the same brief interview, of Vinnie P & CM's Pastor on Friday night.

Vinnie asked the pastor at least 2 questions and I said:
"That poor guy is really scared... or he doesn't know who Conrad Murray is.
They must have the wrong guy on the wrong show!" :waitasec:

IIRC, he just sat there with his mouth open, staring wide-eyed at the camera,
and mumbled after each question was asked. And they weren't hard questions!!
"How is Dr Conrad Murray doing?" & ... uhmm ... I can't even remember the other one!

Where could we find that interview, or whatever it is that it would be called since it doesn't sound much like an interview?? I'd like to see it.
The self-absorbed, self-serving, self-centered doctor. Physician, can't you heal yourself?? Maybe the jailhouse can. Ooohhhh! What a con-man. :furious:

 

[SATA]

bbm

You bring up a good point, Credence, as always, and I hope they do just what you said.

And yes, we do need to give them time to "catch up" -- to discuss all those things/questions that they have all bottled-up in themselves since the first day of the trial. And they couldn't discuss any of them until Friday. That may take a couple of hours, too.

I've never been a juror, but I would think the foreperson could influence things a lot if that were her/his personality. I wouldn't want a waddly wimp for a foreperson, but I wouldn't want an egotistical control freak, either. Especially one with his/her own agenda.
.
How much does a foreperson influence a jury?

Potentionally a lot. It happened in the Casey Anthony trial, and we all know the outcome of that!
Something strange happens to jury members during a case - especially sequestered jurys. They begin doing things at the same time/simultanously. They lean forward at the same time, sit back at the same time, they get synchronized so to speak. I am not sure that is a good thing, because the most dominant personality will take the lead, and the rest will tend to follow that individual and vote as he/she does.
I do have a problem with the jury system - I think there have been too many examples of bad outcomes lately (maybe it has been like that always - I just relatively recently began following trials).

 

[CarolinaMoon]

You're a Good Skate, Carolina Moon!! Good points up there! You sound as it you've been on a jury, too. It does sound like they are trying hard to be good jurors. And this case does carry a tad of notoriety......

But again I say that the charge, while a felony and serious, is not like 1st or 2nd degree murder. And they probably are not trying to swoon too much on the star-studded side, either. Tuff balance. They just need to remember what a doctor's responsibility is to his patient, the oath he took, and the choices he made regardless of what his patient probably ordered or begged him to do. And I hope they don't forget CM's silent but noticeable acknowledgment of criminality -- to the EMS folks and to the ones to whom CM gave his patient to try to bring him back to life. The "I only gave him an aspirin," defense I call it. Pure sleaze, selfishness, and careless disregard of his debt to a fellow human being. He was a doctor!!! Michael trusted him. And he left him to struggle to try to breathe and then die all by himself. Just like it had been all his life.

He knew the rules and he changed them for $5000.00 a day.

now how did this turn into a rant??? invested?? yes, i am. :rant:

Actually, I've never made it past voir-dire! Now, I can't serve on a jury due to a medical condition. I get nasty sciatica if I sit for too long and I can't keep in one position for very long either. I didn't know what the problem was when I went, but apparently my constant movement caught the attention of the lawyers. LOL!

But, I've watched a boatload of trials either on Court TV or IS as well as streamed on my computer. I like it best in trials when the jury speaks afterwards or some of the jurors talk about their deliberations on 48 Hours or other program.

I think, to answer Borndem's question, I think the wrong foreman can wreck havoc with a jury. In the first Phil Spector trial which ended with a hung jury, the foreman refused to discuss the case with the other jurors, refused to take votes for a long time, and refused to discuss the reason for his vote. I'm sorry that some other juror didn't slip a note to the judge telling him that the foreman refused to take part in the discussion. He may have been booted for refusing to deliberate and we might have avoided yet another trial.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Well. Watta-ya-know!
Only Peace, borndem, octobermom, & oceanblueeyes are here!

Rare that the 4 of us are here at the same time!! (just kidding!)

But no. really... all 3 of you must have other lives besides WS.
(I don't. And it's ok.)

You 3 have husbands!
(I don't. And it's wonderful.)

You must have other things to do on a Sunday.
(I do. But I don't want to do them.)


ETA: COOL! I just noticed that more "users" (?) are here now!
(Why does it call us "users"?? :waitasec: )

Now that is a good question. I guess it is because we 'use' this site to voice our opinions.

We had a great afternoon. Our son, daughter in law and two of our grandchildren came over and we grilled out. The weather was nice so we all sat out on the patio until the sun went down. Boy I am stuffed now and cant even think about that peanut butter pie.

I am bad about leaving my computer up on this site without closing it out when I leave.:floorlaugh:

Cant hardly wait until we get a verdict in this case but I am trying to be patient.

IMO

 

[oceanblueeyes]

My grandmother, too, ocean!!! Heck, I've seen a pee-can. My grandmother called it a "slop jar." So there is the North Cackalacky version.

My, we've really gotten a bit home-grown here, huh? And yes, peecan for those best of nuts does sound just like what you said. And walnuts? Never cook with them. I've never bought them. But I have your puhcahns in my fridge right now. I'm never without them. Fry them in a cast iron skillet with salt & butter, and yee-ummm. Good at Christmas, huh?

So glad to hear you and your ribs & spleen are getting along better now! One day at a time, my friend.

And tomorrow -- will that be the day?? Or will we have to wait till Thursday or Friday?? Ack, say it ain't so, Joe!

Where's our next case, folks? Any ideas? Any trials getting warm out there?

That is my favorite way to have pecans. I have an cast iron skillet that my mom always used. If she had lived today would have been her birthday. She would have been 82 today but she passed away at 57.

Even though I love sweets at Thanksgiving and Christmas I am not a big sweet eater most of the time. My weakness is salty foods. So I love cooking the pecans in the skillet with butter and salt. Yummy!

I don't cook meat loaf often but I have crushed the pecans up real tiny and mixed it in with everything and it gives it such a good roasted flavor.

I even made bacon pecan candy last year. Simple to do. Fry the thin bacon crispy and let it drain well ....then heat chocolate (white or dark) in a double boiler with crushed pecans. Take the slice of bacon and make into three sections and gently dip it in the mixture and lay it out on wax paper. OMG now that was the rave last year here at our house.:floorlaugh:

I am hoping that the case out of Georgia happens sometime the first of next year. It is where Guy Heinz Jr. is accused of murdering 8 of his family members and a three year old boy survived. Or the Gee family murders out of Illinois. That is another horrific case too.

But I am sure one will come up before then that will peak my interest.

IMO

 

[RayStar]

The jury should vote not guilty and be done.

 

[peace9274]

The jury should vote not guilty and be done.

Hi, RayStar.

I love hearing all points of view and everyone's opinion...
and especially why s/he feels & thinks the way s/he does.

Can you tell us why you think "the jury should vote not guilty and be done"?

What do you mean by "... and be done."?
That they should not do interviews after they give the verdict?

TIA

 

[oceanblueeyes]

The jury should vote not guilty and be done.

Why do you think it should be Not Guilty? What makes you think Murray is Not Guilty if I may ask.

I have watched this trial gavel to gavel and IMO this case has been proven beyond any doubt.

The only thing I do not agree with is the DA went with a lesser degree.

I think they should have gone with Murder 2 and lesser includes.

Now I do know that some jurors like the Pinellas 12 exist but I really don't think this jury is that clueless and inept.

IMO

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Hi, RayStar.

I love hearing all points of view and everyone's opinion...
and especially why s/he feels & thinks the way s/he does.

Can you tell us why you think "the jury should vote not guilty and be done"?

What do you mean by "... and be done."?
That they should not do interviews after they give the verdict?

TIA

I think they already advised the court before they began deliberating that they were not going to come out and do any interviews afterward.

Thats what I remember reading in an article Friday but cant think of the link now.

IMO

 

[peace9274]

Now that is a good question. I guess it is because we 'use' this site to voice our opinions.

We had a great afternoon. Our son, daughter in law and two of our grandchildren came over and we grilled out. The weather was nice so we all sat out on the patio until the sun went down. Boy I am stuffed now and cant even think about that peanut butter pie.

I am bad about leaving my computer up on this site without closing it out when I leave.:floorlaugh:

Cant hardly wait until we get a verdict in this case but I am trying to be patient.

IMO

It does sound like you had a wonderful afternoon!!! Spending time with my 3 sons, their wives...
and especially my 2 granddaughters (3 yrs old & 1 yr old) is my favorite thing to do now.
Two sons are in NY and one son with the 2 girls is in RI... and I do miss them! A lot!
I do find a lot of other fun & interesting things to do... but to me, there's nothing like being with family!!

I'm being very patient too. :innocent:
(Anyone know NOW how many hours to go? :banghead


ETA: I know what you're all thinking!! Don't worry.
I won't tell any long stories about my DGDs.
Nor post any links to photos & videos of them.

You've all graciously, politely, patiently put up with
enough of my bragging & plugging & linking! :silenced:

 

[borndem]

Well. Watta-ya-know!
Only Peace, borndem, octobermom, & oceanblueeyes are here!

Rare that the 4 of us are here at the same time!! (just kidding!)

But no. really... all 3 of you must have other lives besides WS.
(I don't. And it's ok.)

You 3 have husbands!
(I don't. And it's wonderful.)

You must have other things to do on a Sunday.
(I do. But I don't want to do them.)


ETA: COOL! I just noticed that more "users" (?) are here now!
(Why does it call us "users"?? :waitasec: )

Well, we ARE users, but I think "Beautiful People" or "Wonderful Ones" or "Mensa Groop" (yes, g-r-o-o-p), or "Couch Detectives" or "They Shoulda Let Us Do It" would be closer to the troot.