Coronavirus COVID-19 - Global Health Emergency #5

[Deleted member 158085]

IMO
I'm not overly impressed with the bashing of the UK government. It is a very diplomatic situation in respect to the Japanese government. They have to be shown to trust that the situation on the cruise is in good hands and then they need reliable evidence that the situation isn't good. Just because other countries are acting faster doesn't mean a slight on other countries. I'm pretty sure Canada is only just starting to get their people out. If I'm wrong about that, sorry.
And it's like people have said, they were told to not visit certain places and they go and do that. And how about you allow a country toke to prepare at home. The confirmed cases in the uk needed looking at before you brought in many confirmed cases.
And I'm not going to comment on the idea of America being perfect at this.

The US isn’t perfect in how they are handling it, either. There are articles out there about how the federal government is not coordinating with the individual states as well as they should be. I’m afraid to bring those articles in because it could veer into the political. But anyone interested could search for a WaPo article on Hawaii.

 

[dixiegirl1035]

First coronavirus patient had NO connection to Wuhan seafood market - so did the disease start elsewhere?

The first patient diagnosed with the novel coronavirushas been reported to be a bed-bound pensioner who had no connection to a food market in Wuhan where Beijing's officials say the outbreak began.

First coronavirus patient had NO connection to Wuhan seafood market | Daily Mail Online

Greg, that first guy had dementia and then he had a stroke and in the hospital hewent, so that is correct, he had no DIRECT connection to the Wuhan seafood market. 66% of the first 41 in the Lancet article had connection to the market.

My MOO is that he was in hospitals (multiple hospitals) for quite a time, was not able to give his history so therefore more than a month later the family gave when they thought symptoms started. MOO, he was one of the noscomial infections and was dx much later than the admission for something else. He's not patient zero MOO and typical Daily Mail taking the study out of context and pulling out "drama" headline without looking at the original Lancent paper, which is here. https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)30183-5/fulltext

The original source for this information (BBC) appears to be linked in the above article, but requires translation:
模糊不清的“零号病人”与新冠病毒来源争议
RSBM

I heard a bat call to google translate (by the way, so easy to copy/paste and "viola" at Google translate..lol, note below they are translating coronavirus --> "crown". I'm not fixing.

Pneumonia epidemic: ambiguous "Patient Zero" and virus source dispute
China is working to curb the spread of the new coronavirus pneumonia, but where exactly the outbreak has started is still foggy. A doctor who was involved in treating the first new crown patient currently known to the public told the BBC that the patient was a patient with cerebral infarction at home in his 70s.

This is the first time that information about the early patient has been made public. He is believed to have developed the disease on December 1st, almost a week earlier than the patient previously reported by Wuhan officials on December 8th. It is worth noting that he has no history of exposure to the South China seafood market.

The wildlife trade in the South China Seafood Market in Wuhan has been suspected to have been the culprit for the epidemic, but the experience of the old man is challenging that conclusion. Scholars and netizens have questioned whether the virus has other potential sources, including whether it may be related to Wuhan Virus Research Institute.

The new outbreak of coronavirus pneumonia in Wuhan, which has infected more than 70,000 people and killed nearly 2,000 people in China, remains unclear as to how the virus initially crossed the species barrier and transmitted from animals to humans. The key to understanding the virus's path of transmission is the identity of the first patient and how he became infected.

The Wuhan Municipal Health and Health Commission stated in a notification that the onset of the first case of new coronary pneumonia was December 8 last year, but an international authoritative medical journal "The Lancet" published on January 24 by A thesis written by Huang Chaolin and other deputy directors of Wuhan Jinyintan Hospital, who admitted to treating patients with new coronary pneumonia, pushed the first patient's onset time to December 1. The paper was written by nearly 30 researchers in Chinese medical institutions, and a considerable number of them are working in the field of treating patients with new crowns.

Dr. Wenjuan Wu, director of the Intensive Care Unit (ICU) at Jinyintan Hospital and one of the authors of the above papers, told the BBC on Monday (February 17) that the patient who developed the disease on December 1 was a man over seventies . The onset time on December 1 was a conclusion drawn from the epidemiological survey of the family members.

"This patient has a cerebral infarction and senile dementia, and the condition was very bad when he was sent over," Wu Wenjuan said. She declined to disclose the patient's last name.

It is reported that after the onset of the disease, the patient was first admitted to another hospital in Wuhan, but as the condition worsened, he was transferred to Jinyintan Hospital on December 29. At the time, Huang Chaolin and Wu Wenjuan were on the scene.

Wu Wenjuan said the old man had been sick at home before and had not visited the South China Seafood Market, a trading market in Wuhan that sells seafood and game products. Because a large number of merchants in this market became ill at the beginning of the outbreak, it was once considered the origin of the outbreak.

"He lives far from the four or five stops (bus stops) of the seafood market," said Wu Wenjuan. "And because he was sick, he basically didn't go out."

According to a paper published in The Lancet, the elderly's family members did not develop fever or respiratory symptoms after the onset of illness, and there was no epidemiological link between them and subsequent patients. Ten days after his onset, three other people developed symptoms, two of whom had no history of exposure to the South China seafood market.

The BBC has not been able to independently verify this information.

Is there any other possible source of infection for this patient who has been living at home for a long time and has never been to the South China Seafood Market? Wu Wenjuan did not respond directly.

"You are asking exactly where we are going next," she said.

But it is obvious that this contradicts the previous widely speculated that the epidemic was a large number of operators or game buyers of the South China seafood market that transmitted the virus directly to the South China seafood market.

Well, in about 5 hours or more they'll publish the daily numbers of new positives on the ship. I'll be sleeping, but if anyone wants to take a peek around 5 am to see at Tracking coronavirus: Map, data and timeline - BNO News , there's the link.

Yesterday was 99, today was 88... so in 5 hours... perhaps 77?

Pfffft, it was 79, I was off two. So tomorrow 66?

As far as I know the couple is in Japan, not in China.

Thanks for catching, brain to fingers issue

 

[Amonet]

Is plastic sheet effective in preventing the spread of the virus?

I have no idea if it was 'just' a plastic sheet or something that looks like a plastic sheet and is really more advanced?

But what I meant was 'significantly reduces the risk to the general population', which is the aim here.

If the concern is the risk of that move for the people on the plane, I think it needs to be considered what other options there were, and if they were really better than getting on that flight.

I had thought you were referring more to the risk to people outside of that group on the plane, and the controlled methods used in the transfer are so much safer for the general population than a flight incoming from France or Germany, or any other country, that could potentially be carrying a person who was in a coffee shop a week ago with someone who'd flown in from Hawaii after being on a tour bus with an infected person over there.

 

[Tadpole12]

A video by Prof Kentaro Iwata, a specialist in infectious diseases at Kobe University Hospital, has been circulated widely on social media.

As the quarantine of the Diamond Princess cruise ship ends today, questions continue to swirl over how the virus spread so readily on the ship.

A video by Prof Kentaro Iwata, a specialist in infectious diseases at Kobe University Hospital, has been circulated widely on social media.

He says the cruise ship was completely inadequate in terms of infection control, with no distinction between the green zone (which is free of infection) and the red zone (which is potentially contaminated by the virus).

“It was completely chaotic. I was so scared of getting Covid-19, because there was no way to tell where the virus is,” he said. He said there was no professional infection control person in charge on the ship and the bureaucrats in control were violating all infection control principles.

He said he met a health worker who had completely given up wearing protection because they said they had already been infected with the coronavirus.

Speaking on Radio 4’s Today programme, Iwata said:

I felt much safer when I was in Africa [during the Ebola crisis] because you know where the virus exists and you know where the patient is. But inside the Diamond Princess you have no idea where the virus is.”

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Coronavirus: first two patients confirmed in Iran as cruise ship cases rise to 621 – live updates

I later read that he refused to go home to his family after visiting the ship and has decided to self-quarantine for 14 days after visiting the ship.

He comments that, in reality, there was zero infection control within the ship.

 

[Amonet]

I wouldn’t want to be one of the other passengers on the plane, with 14 coronavirus victims separated only by a plastic curtain.

I suppose they were given the option of staying on the ship for a few more days with more than 14 cases of Covid-19, and their choice was to fly home in that specially outfitted plane. Each person had about the same chance of either being infected on the plane or being the one who infected someone else on the plane.

A tough choice, and one I imagine they thought hard about before making their decision. And it wasn't any old plane, it was one that was ready to carry them, ready to separate out anyone who came down with possible symptoms. I don't know what the specifications of the separate area were, but I imagine some thought was put into that by the people who decided how to kit it out for this specific purpose.

 

[dixiegirl1035]

Someone asked a few pages ago for a link to the actual study of 44,000 patients in China.

I think it's this link:
The Epidemiological Characteristics of an Outbreak of 2019 Novel Coronavirus Diseases (COVID-19) — China, 2020

which I found in this article on the BBC:
China releases largest study on Covid-19 outbreak

It was I that was wanting it. 72,000 in the study. That is it, thank you so very much!

 

[Deleted member 158085]

I suppose they were given the option of staying on the ship for a few more days with more than 14 cases of Covid-19, and their choice was to fly home in that specially outfitted plane. Each person had about the same chance of either being infected on the plane or being the one who infected someone else on the plane.

A tough choice, and one I imagine they thought hard about before making their decision. And it wasn't any old plane, it was one that was ready to carry them, ready to separate out anyone who came down with possible symptoms. I don't know what the specifications of the separate area were, but I imagine some thought was put into that by the people who decided how to kit it out for this specific purpose.

Every time I watched the Abels say how many more people had been infected on the ship, I was thinking how I would be thinking, they are dropping like flies. So, yes, if you have a choice of two petri dishes, I can see where many would choose the one bound for home. Just look at the last couple of days of confusion for the Abels, not knowing if they were infected because of the language barrier.

A hospital stay for a deadly virus would be scary enough, but imagine not being able to understand the language the doctors and nurses are speaking.

 

[dixiegirl1035]

Is plastic sheet effective in preventing the spread of the virus?

MOO, consider that there was a standard operating procedure that once the folks went in through *their direct entry* to the box, that no one after lift off was allowed to open the door unless an emergency in flight (we are gonna crash type stuff). In that SOP situation, someone who got a fever or symptoms (due to Advil/cough medicine wearing off?) wouldn't be allowed in, as the door would have to be opened, which is a no no per SOP as they have their own oxygen source not to be combined with the cabin. So the fall back "B" plan was to keep them not only 2 meters away, but to isolate within a barrier during the flight?

That's just a supposition based on what I've read. MOO

I wouldn’t want to be one of the other passengers on the plane, with 14 coronavirus victims separated only by a plastic curtain.

The positives known when boarded MOO were in an isolation chamber shown in posts above.

 

[What if...]

Would you want to be a healthy passenger on that plane, with 14 infected coronavirus victims separated by a plastic sheet? I know I wouldn’t.

It wouldn’t be an ideal situation, but I think I’d prefer that airplane over being on that ship of contagion.

 

[dixiegirl1035]

Would you want to be a healthy passenger on that plane, with 14 infected coronavirus victims separated by a plastic sheet? I know I wouldn’t.

#1 Would I prefer this to staying on the Princess, yes
#2 Would I prefer, if I was asymptomatic (as 66% or so last tested positive were) to get to US, yes
#3 Would I prefer to have myself in that situation be in the US vs. Japan, yes
#4 Would I prefer to have a free ride and free board in US vs. potentially Japan, yes
#5 Would I prefer to have other individuals to have the same chance as I, yes
#6 Would I prefer to do another 14 days in US isolation vs. in Japan hostel/hospital, HELL YES
#7 Would I appreciate and trust that I would be in good hands vs. staying on the Princess and it's current infection rate above 30% now (need to double check this figure) , yes
#8 Would I appreciate that those under the sheet were precautionary, and the US have such strict protocols that they don't even open the door of the positive biocontainment folks, yes

I could go on and on and on. But yes, I would.

ETA: Of note, there has been *crickets* from "those 4" that were so vocal before now for those that are following. (2 couples I'm referring to, not the Abels)

 

[JerseyGirl]

Singapore confirms 3 more coronavirus cases

... bringing the nationwide total to 84 confirmed cases.

Here's a look at the new cases:

• The first is a 57 year-old woman who is a Singapore Citizen with no recent travel history to China. On Saturday, she was admitted as a dengue patient in a general ward comprising of other patients at Ng Teng Fong General Hospital. However, yesterday afernoon, subsequent test results confirmed she’s infected with the novel coronavirus. She has been isolated since. Patients who had shared the same room as her have also been tested for the novel coronavirus. Their results are pending.
• The second case is a 54 year-old male Singapore Citizen with no recent travel history to China, but who travels frequently to Malaysia for work purposes. He was confirmed to have the novel coronavirus on Wednesday morning and is currently in isolation.
• The third case involves a 35 year-old female Singapore Citizen.Though she has no recent travel history to China, she is linked to another previously confirmed case. This case involves a 28 year-old male Singapore Citizen with no recent travel history to China but he is linked to the cluster at Grace Assembly of God.

Coronavirus news and live updates: Death toll rises above 2,000 worldwide - CNN

 

[Herat]

Is plastic sheet effective in preventing the spread of the virus?

The Americans who tested positive were in the containment chamber on the Kalita flights, not just behind a plastic sheet.

I believe the plastic sheet was just for the esthetics, or possibly for a secondary screen so those in the seats on the evacuation plane didn't have to stare at the containment unit for the entire flight, and they would not be able to see what was going on in there. From the photos I saw, the plastic sheet was certainly not meant as the primary means to stop spread of the virus

 

[Herat]

Would you want to be a healthy passenger on that plane, with 14 infected coronavirus victims separated by a plastic sheet? I know I wouldn’t.

There was a specific containment unit onboard that even had it's own airplane door.

Here is a photo of one being loaded onto a plane

 

[Herat]

Good article about the Kalitta flights evacuating the American from the Diamond Princess

Great photo of a bio-containment unit being loaded on a plane:

747s Carrying Americans Exposed To Coronavirus Used New Quarantine Box For Infected Flyers

I'm trying to figure out how they get that box into that hole

 

[dixiegirl1035]

The Aussies/Kiwi have been taken off ship earlier today, now are working on disembarkation of the Hong Kong contingent.

 

[dixiegirl1035]

There was a specific containment unit onboard that even had it's own airplane door.

Here is a photo of one being loaded onto a plane

Good photo, and also shows it has it's own air supply not to be mixed with other air on plane. I would assume UV and HEPA filtration of the air.. but cannot see that?

 

[Herat]

I have no idea if it was 'just' a plastic sheet or something that looks like a plastic sheet and is really more advanced?

But what I meant was 'significantly reduces the risk to the general population', which is the aim here.

If the concern is the risk of that move for the people on the plane, I think it needs to be considered what other options there were, and if they were really better than getting on that flight.

I had thought you were referring more to the risk to people outside of that group on the plane, and the controlled methods used in the transfer are so much safer for the general population than a flight incoming from France or Germany, or any other country, that could potentially be carrying a person who was in a coffee shop a week ago with someone who'd flown in from Hawaii after being on a tour bus with an infected person over there.

Here is a photo taken on that flight showing the containment unit onboard with the apparently COVID-19 negative passengers in seats.

I did see a photo with a plastic sheet up and it looked like it was just hung for visual separation, and likely to specify that the regular pax were not to cross this sheet, to specify the "perimeter" maintained around the containment unit.

Many of the photos taken by passengers are no longer available so I'm not able to easily find the photo of the plastic sheet. It looked like an ordinary white plastic sheet (without any lettering or symbols) hung from a cord stretched across the inside of plane, about 8 feet above the deck level, with no attempt to "seal off" any area of the plane

 

[Amonet]

It wouldn’t be an ideal situation, but I think I’d prefer that airplane over being on that ship of contagion.

I think I'd rather be one step closer to home and moved into a more certain quarantine, so that there's however many hours on the flight and then at least a relative certainty compared to being on the ship. As I say, a step closer to home...If I test negative then I go into something like a basic but clean hotel room for 14 days, test clear again and I can go home.

vs staying on the ship, not feeling safe from the chance of getting infected there, not knowing how long I'd still have to stay on the ship, not knowing where I'd be going next, not knowing if I'd still test positive at some point in the next 14 days, before being able to start the journey home.

On the other hand, for me personally I wouldn't want to get on the plane for fear of it crashing, and I wouldn't have wanted to be on the cruise ship for fear of it sinking. We all have those things that send our fears into overdrive!

 

[asyousay]

So I will be different here and say if it was the choice of remaining in Japan or going on that plane I would stay in Japan. Japan is a great country and i would have no concerns that they couldn’t take care of me.

Looking at that plane ride I would have anxiety for the entire flight and I don’t even suffer with anxiety normally but I literally couldn’t be in the Plane like that filled with sick people and a 10+ flight.

 

[Amonet]

Good article about the Kalitta flights evacuating the American from the Diamond Princess

Great photo of a bio-containment unit being loaded on a plane:

747s Carrying Americans Exposed To Coronavirus Used New Quarantine Box For Infected Flyers

I'm trying to figure out how they get that box into that hole

Thanks for finding that. I thought the 'box' in one of the earlier photos was the containment area for anyone who came down with symptoms on the flight (or anyone who's test came back positive after boarding), and then I saw the posts about plastic sheeting and wondered what the box was for.

As they keep saying, there's never zero risk, all they can do is minimise the risks as much as possible, and that is all you can ever do in your life. I am absolutely certain they would not have approached that transfer in a blase manner.