Coronavirus COVID-19 - Global Health Pandemic #102

[CrimeAway]

Over 800,000 people in the USA have died from Covid-19.

COVID Live Update: 262,429,694 Cases and 5,224,820 Deaths from the Coronavirus - Worldometer

 

[nightowl1975]

I cannot express strongly enough how po'd I am with these non-vaxxers: Here in Michigan these disgusting individuals are overwhelming our hospital systems to the point that people with heart attacks, etc. cannot get treated timely, maybe not at all. So, these awful selfish people are getting the best care, top of the line, while people who do the right thing cannot get treatment. Is that fair? He;; no it isn't -- So what is the downside of being a selfish person, who is causing the virus to mutate and linger? There is no downside: in fact, when these people get infected they get the best care possible, put others at risk, and cause other people to possibly die because there is no more room in the hospitals for them. It makes me sick.

To be fair, there’s the obvious downside for the unvaccinated who get very sick with covid… they’re far more likely to die. So that’s definitely a downside.

Also, vaccinated or not, you don’t necessarily get top of the line care for covid if bed capacity is limited. Covid patients wait for beds like just like heart attacks or strokes or MVAs, etc.

It’s a mess, for sure.

 

[ilovewings]

BBM

Tragic. Although sleep is restorative, sleeping that much can be a red flag and it would have been good if he had gone to the ER earlier. When I had covid and wanted to go back to bed right after getting up, my dh called the doctor and then the ambulance, thankfully. On the list of deaths Oregon publishes each day, so many die at home. I think a lot of people just wait too long before seeking help.

I think a lot of anti vaxxers and covid deniars dont think they have covid
when they feel sick so they dont go to a bospital until they are at death's
doorstep

 

[squish]

I don't understand the point in the booster to protect against variants. It won't protect against it, it's exactly the same vaccine as before.

 

[ilovewings]

To be fair, there’s the obvious downside for the unvaccinated who get very sick with covid… they’re far more likely to die. So that’s definitely a downside.

Also, vaccinated or not, you don’t necessarily get top of the line care for covid if bed capacity is limited. Covid patients wait for beds like just like heart attacks or strokes or MVAs, etc.

It’s a mess, for sure.

To be fair, there’s the obvious downside for the unvaccinated who get very sick with covid… they’re far more likely to die. So that’s definitely a downside.

Also, vaccinated or not, you don’t necessarily get top of the line care for covid if bed capacity is limited. Covid patients wait for beds like just like heart attacks or strokes or MVAs, etc.

It’s a mess, for sure.

So let me ask you this, the next ICU bed becomes available, who gets it, the severely ill covid patient or the the heart attack patient? My money is on
the covid patient who probably is having trouble breathing and presents
more severely ill, while they have perhaps stabilized the heart attack for the moment

 

[JayWill]

I don't understand the point in the booster to protect against variants. It won't protect against it, it's exactly the same vaccine as before.

Yes, like tetanus boosters are the same, but they work. That is why it is called a booster.
And how do you know that it won't protect against it?

 

[squish]

It's only been a few months since people were vaccinated. Tetanus boosters don't need to be taken every few months.

 

[CrimeAway]

I don't understand the point in the booster to protect against variants. It won't protect against it, it's exactly the same vaccine as before.

IMO, I have heard and read evidence that the booster can not only increase the production of antibodies that are specific for the spike protein in the vaccine, but also helps 'select' for, and boost production of other antibodies, which are produced by random genetic assortment in naive "B" cells. These cells then presumably undergo somatic hypermutation, further augmenting and broadening the immune response to Sars-coV-2.

This is my understanding from the science I have read and
shared previously here on WS.

Obviously, this is a new virus, with constantly evolving mutations, so there are still details to nail down, JMO.

ETA: Many vaccines are recommended to be administered at least 2-3 times, particularly in "immune-naive" individuals. IMO. Sources:

Adult Immunization Schedule by Vaccine and Age Group | CDC

Birth-18 Years Immunization Schedule | CDC

https://www.aaha.org/aaha-guideline...ination-recommendations-for-general-practice/

https://www.aaha.org/aaha-guideline...ccination-guidelines/feline-vaccination-home/

 

[ilovewings]

Moderna CEO says vaccines likely less effective against Omicron - FT

Well this is disheartneing

 

[jjenny]

I don't understand the point in the booster to protect against variants. It won't protect against it, it's exactly the same vaccine as before.

Booster increases antibody levels. Antibodies will likely still work against the variant (just less effectively than against an original) so the more antibodies the better.

 

[jjenny]

Is the 800,000 ppl that died ‘from’ covid or ‘with’ covid.?

We should ask them. Oh wait, they are dead.

 

[HongKongPhooey]

Is the 800,000 ppl that died ‘from’ covid or ‘with’ covid.?

Well now taking my relative as an example. Yes she had health conditions which she was managing very well and short term were not life threatening. Then she broke a bone, needed surgery, caught covid on the hospital ward and died a week later.

She died FROM covid. I challenge anyone to argue the semantic point with my poor cousin who has lost her mum a good ten years earlier than anyone expected.

 

[Skigh]

Well now taking my relative as an example. Yes she had health conditions which she was managing very well and short term were not life threatening. Then she broke a bone, needed surgery, caught covid on the hospital ward and died a week later.

She died FROM covid. I challenge anyone to argue the semantic point with my poor cousin who has lost her mum a good ten years earlier than anyone expected.

Excellent post,HKP. I Totally agree.

 

[Lilibet]

Is the 800,000 ppl that died ‘from’ covid or ‘with’ covid.?

I don’t think it’s always possible to make an absolute determination whether the death was “from covid” or “with covid.” Oregon refers to these deaths as “Covid-related” deaths and says they are either “confirmed” or “presumptive”…the person either testing positive for covid prior to or after death, or Covid is listed on the death certificate as the cause of death or a significant condition contributing to death. Most of the people who died also had underlying conditions, but their deaths are in the “covid related” category because they had covid. Whether they would have died anyway at this time of their high blood pressure or diabetes, for example, is unknown, but covid was present and that is acknowledged.

If someone wants to split hairs as our locals do in order to minimize the severity of covid and imply that hospitals are dishonest in their reporting, that’s their problem. But the bottom line is that covid is a killer no matter how you look at it.

Here are the various ways Oregon reported Covid-related deaths today; all very transparent with corrections if needed. I have bolded different examples:

Oregon’s 5,116th COVID-19 related death is a 91-year-old man from Jackson County who died Oct. 19 at his residence. The death certificate listed COVID-19 disease or SARS-CoV-2 as a cause of death or a significant condition contributing to death. He had underlying conditions.

Oregon’s 5,117th COVID-19 related death is a 74-year-old man from Jackson County who died Sept. 10 at Sky Lakes Medical Center. The death certificate listed COVID-19 disease or SARS-CoV-2 as a cause of death or a significant condition contributing to death. Presence of underlying conditions is being confirmed.

Oregon’s 5,118th COVID-19 related death is a 69-year-old woman from Curry County who died Sept. 7 at Providence Medford Medical Center. The death certificate listed COVID-19 disease or SARS-CoV-2 as a cause of death or a significant condition contributing to death. She had underlying conditions.

Oregon’s 5,119th COVID-19 related death is a 78-year-old woman from Curry County who died Sept. 7 at Providence Medford Medical Center. The death certificate listed COVID-19 disease or SARS-CoV-2 as a cause of death or a significant condition contributing to death. She had underlying conditions.

Oregon’s 5,120th COVID-19 related death is an 80-year-old woman from Curry County who died Aug. 30 at her residence. The death certificate listed COVID-19 disease or SARS-CoV-2 as a cause of death or a significant condition contributing to death. She had underlying conditions.

Oregon’s 5,121st COVID-19 related death is a 70-year-old woman from Polk County who tested positive Aug. 15 and died Aug. 27 at Salem Hospital. Presence of underlying conditions is being confirmed.

Oregon’s 5,122nd COVID-19 related death is an 85-year-old man from Jackson County who tested positive Nov. 6 and died Nov. 21 at Providence Medford Medical Center. He had underlying conditions.

Oregon’s 5,123rd COVID-19 related death is an 81-year-old woman from Jackson County who tested positive Oct. 11 and died Nov. 19 at her residence. She had underlying conditions.

Oregon’s 5,124th COVID-19 related death is a 72-year-old woman from Grant County who died Sept. 4 at St. Charles Bend. The death certificate listed COVID-19 disease or SARS-CoV-2 as a cause of death or a significant condition contributing to death. She had underlying conditions.

Oregon’s 5,125th COVID-19 related death is an 83-year-old woman from Douglas County who tested positive Nov. 2 and died Nov. 20 at David Grant Medical Center in Fairfield, Calif. Presence of underlying conditions is being confirmed.

Oregon’s 5,126th COVID-19 related death is a 75-year-old woman from Clackamas County who tested positive Nov. 8 and died Nov. 24 at Legacy Meridian Park Medical Center. Presence of underlying conditions is being confirmed.

Oregon’s 5,127th COVID-19 related death is an 81-year-old woman from Baker County who tested positive Nov. 19 and died Nov. 26 at St. Alphonsus Regional Medical Center in Boise, Idaho. She had no underlying conditions.

Oregon’s 5,128th COVID-19 related death is a 67-year-old woman from Baker County who tested positive Nov. 2 and died Nov. 27 at St. Alphonsus Regional Medical Center in Boise, Idaho. She had no underlying conditions.

Oregon’s 5,129th COVID-19 related death is an 85-year-old man from Jackson County who tested positive Nov. 21 and died Nov. 23 at Asante Rogue Regional Medical Center. He had underlying conditions.

Oregon’s 5,130th COVID-19 related death is a 75-year-old woman from Jackson County who tested positive Nov. 15 and died Nov. 21 at Providence Medford Medical Center. She had underlying conditions.

Oregon’s 5,131st COVID-19 related death is a 72-year-old woman from Jackson County who tested positive Nov. 9 and died Nov. 24 at Providence Medford Medical Center. She had underlying conditions.

Oregon’s 5,132nd COVID-19 related death is an 87-year-old man from Washington County who tested positive Nov. 12 and died Nov. 20 at Providence St. Vincent Medical Center. He had underlying conditions.

Oregon’s 5,133rd COVID-19 related death is a 58-year-old man from Washington County who tested positive Nov. 4 and died Nov. 19 at OHSU Hillsboro Medical Center. He had underlying conditions.

Oregon’s 5,134th COVID-19 related death is a 64-year-old man from Polk County who tested positive Nov. 5 and died Nov. 23 at Salem Hospital. Presence of underlying conditions is being confirmed.

Oregon’s 5,135th COVID-19 related death is a 62-year-old woman from Marion County who tested positive Nov. 4 and died Nov. 26 at Salem Hospital. She had underlying conditions.

Oregon’s 5,136th COVID-19 related death is a 60-year-old woman from Marion County who tested positive Nov. 2 and died Nov. 26 at Salem Hospital. She had underlying conditions.

Oregon’s 5,137th COVID-19 related death is a 76-year-old man from Linn County who tested positive Nov. 9 and died Nov. 23 at Good Samaritan Regional Medical Center. Presence of underlying conditions is being confirmed.

Oregon’s 5,138th COVID-19 related death is a 72-year-old man from Linn County who tested positive Oct. 31 and died Nov. 20 at Salem Hospital. Presence of underlying conditions is being confirmed.

Oregon’s 5,139th COVID-19 related death is a 70-year-old woman from Jefferson County who died Sept. 29 at St. Charles Bend. The death certificate listed COVID-19 disease or SARS-CoV-2 as a cause of death or a significant condition contributing to death. She had underlying conditions.

Oregon’s 5,140th COVID-19 related death is a 78-year-old man from Benton County who tested positive Nov. 9 and died Nov. 23 at Good Samaritan Regional Medical Center. Presence of underlying conditions is being confirmed.

Oregon’s 5,141st COVID-19 related death is a 65-year-old man from Josephine County who died Aug. 19 at his residence. The death certificate listed COVID-19 disease or SARS-CoV-2 as a cause of death or a significant condition contributing to death. Presence of underlying conditions is being confirmed.

Oregon’s 5,142nd COVID-19 related death is a 57-year-old man from Josephine County who tested positive Nov. 1 and died Nov. 23 at Asante Three Rivers Medical Center. He had no underlying conditions.

Updated information is known about Oregon’s 4,990th COVID-19 related death, a 42-year-old-man from Josephine County who tested positive Sept. 4 and died Sept. 3. He was originally reported as having died Sept. 4.

Updated information is known about Oregon’s 4,957th COVID-19 related death, an 84-year-old woman from Josephine County who tested positive Sept. 1 and died Sept. 12. She was originally reported as being an 83-year-old woman.

Updated information is known about Oregon’s 4,764th COVID-19 related death, a 59-year-old man from Josephine County who tested positive Aug. 23 and died Sept. 6 at Oregon Health & Science University Hospital. He had underlying conditions. He was previously reported as a 58-year-old man from Josephine County who died at Asante Three Rivers Medical Center with no underlying conditions.

A date was incorrectly reported on Nov. 24. Oregon’s 5,095th COVID-19-related death is a 65-year-old man from Clackamas County who died Nov. 24, 2020, at his residence. The death certificate listed COVID-19 disease or SARS-CoV-2 as a cause of death or a significant condition contributing to death. He had underlying conditions.
BBM
Oregon reports 2,598 new confirmed and presumptive COVID-19 cases, 27 new deaths

 

[Elley Mae]

Well now taking my relative as an example. Yes she had health conditions which she was managing very well and short term were not life threatening. Then she broke a bone, needed surgery, caught covid on the hospital ward and died a week later.

She died FROM covid. I challenge anyone to argue the semantic point with my poor cousin who has lost her mum a good ten years earlier than anyone expected.

So sorry for your loss, I also lost a nephew to covid, no underlying health issues.

But there are cases out there that have ppl listed as covid death when they died by other means that tested positive for covid after death.


Jmo

 

[Skigh]

So sorry for your loss, I also lost a nephew to covid, no underlying health issues.

But there are cases out there that have ppl listed as covid death when they died by other means that tested positive for covid after death.

Even if not diagnosed before death,Covid probably intensified their pre existing illness.


Jmo

 

[Elley Mae]

I don’t think it’s always possible to make an absolute determination whether the death was “from covid” or “with covid.” Oregon refers to these deaths as “Covid-related” deaths and says they are either “confirmed” or “presumptive”…the person either testing positive for covid prior to or after death, or Covid is listed on the death certificate as the cause of death or a significant condition contributing to death. Most of the people who died also had underlying conditions, but their deaths are in the “covid related” category because they had covid. Whether they would have died anyway at this time of their high blood pressure or diabetes, for example, is unknown, but covid was present and that is acknowledged.

If someone wants to split hairs as our locals do in order to minimize the severity of covid and imply that hospitals are dishonest in their reporting, that’s their problem. But the bottom line is that covid is a killer no matter how you look at it.

Here are the various ways Oregon reported Covid-related deaths today; all very transparent with corrections if needed. I have bolded different examples:

Oregon’s 5,116th COVID-19 related death is a 91-year-old man from Jackson County who died Oct. 19 at his residence. The death certificate listed COVID-19 disease or SARS-CoV-2 as a cause of death or a significant condition contributing to death. He had underlying conditions.

Oregon’s 5,117th COVID-19 related death is a 74-year-old man from Jackson County who died Sept. 10 at Sky Lakes Medical Center. The death certificate listed COVID-19 disease or SARS-CoV-2 as a cause of death or a significant condition contributing to death. Presence of underlying conditions is being confirmed.

Oregon’s 5,118th COVID-19 related death is a 69-year-old woman from Curry County who died Sept. 7 at Providence Medford Medical Center. The death certificate listed COVID-19 disease or SARS-CoV-2 as a cause of death or a significant condition contributing to death. She had underlying conditions.

Oregon’s 5,119th COVID-19 related death is a 78-year-old woman from Curry County who died Sept. 7 at Providence Medford Medical Center. The death certificate listed COVID-19 disease or SARS-CoV-2 as a cause of death or a significant condition contributing to death. She had underlying conditions.

Oregon’s 5,120th COVID-19 related death is an 80-year-old woman from Curry County who died Aug. 30 at her residence. The death certificate listed COVID-19 disease or SARS-CoV-2 as a cause of death or a significant condition contributing to death. She had underlying conditions.

Oregon’s 5,121st COVID-19 related death is a 70-year-old woman from Polk County who tested positive Aug. 15 and died Aug. 27 at Salem Hospital. Presence of underlying conditions is being confirmed.

Oregon’s 5,122nd COVID-19 related death is an 85-year-old man from Jackson County who tested positive Nov. 6 and died Nov. 21 at Providence Medford Medical Center. He had underlying conditions.

Oregon’s 5,123rd COVID-19 related death is an 81-year-old woman from Jackson County who tested positive Oct. 11 and died Nov. 19 at her residence. She had underlying conditions.

Oregon’s 5,124th COVID-19 related death is a 72-year-old woman from Grant County who died Sept. 4 at St. Charles Bend. The death certificate listed COVID-19 disease or SARS-CoV-2 as a cause of death or a significant condition contributing to death. She had underlying conditions.

Oregon’s 5,125th COVID-19 related death is an 83-year-old woman from Douglas County who tested positive Nov. 2 and died Nov. 20 at David Grant Medical Center in Fairfield, Calif. Presence of underlying conditions is being confirmed.

Oregon’s 5,126th COVID-19 related death is a 75-year-old woman from Clackamas County who tested positive Nov. 8 and died Nov. 24 at Legacy Meridian Park Medical Center. Presence of underlying conditions is being confirmed.

Oregon’s 5,127th COVID-19 related death is an 81-year-old woman from Baker County who tested positive Nov. 19 and died Nov. 26 at St. Alphonsus Regional Medical Center in Boise, Idaho. She had no underlying conditions.

Oregon’s 5,128th COVID-19 related death is a 67-year-old woman from Baker County who tested positive Nov. 2 and died Nov. 27 at St. Alphonsus Regional Medical Center in Boise, Idaho. She had no underlying conditions.

Oregon’s 5,129th COVID-19 related death is an 85-year-old man from Jackson County who tested positive Nov. 21 and died Nov. 23 at Asante Rogue Regional Medical Center. He had underlying conditions.

Oregon’s 5,130th COVID-19 related death is a 75-year-old woman from Jackson County who tested positive Nov. 15 and died Nov. 21 at Providence Medford Medical Center. She had underlying conditions.

Oregon’s 5,131st COVID-19 related death is a 72-year-old woman from Jackson County who tested positive Nov. 9 and died Nov. 24 at Providence Medford Medical Center. She had underlying conditions.

Oregon’s 5,132nd COVID-19 related death is an 87-year-old man from Washington County who tested positive Nov. 12 and died Nov. 20 at Providence St. Vincent Medical Center. He had underlying conditions.

Oregon’s 5,133rd COVID-19 related death is a 58-year-old man from Washington County who tested positive Nov. 4 and died Nov. 19 at OHSU Hillsboro Medical Center. He had underlying conditions.

Oregon’s 5,134th COVID-19 related death is a 64-year-old man from Polk County who tested positive Nov. 5 and died Nov. 23 at Salem Hospital. Presence of underlying conditions is being confirmed.

Oregon’s 5,135th COVID-19 related death is a 62-year-old woman from Marion County who tested positive Nov. 4 and died Nov. 26 at Salem Hospital. She had underlying conditions.

Oregon’s 5,136th COVID-19 related death is a 60-year-old woman from Marion County who tested positive Nov. 2 and died Nov. 26 at Salem Hospital. She had underlying conditions.

Oregon’s 5,137th COVID-19 related death is a 76-year-old man from Linn County who tested positive Nov. 9 and died Nov. 23 at Good Samaritan Regional Medical Center. Presence of underlying conditions is being confirmed.

Oregon’s 5,138th COVID-19 related death is a 72-year-old man from Linn County who tested positive Oct. 31 and died Nov. 20 at Salem Hospital. Presence of underlying conditions is being confirmed.

Oregon’s 5,139th COVID-19 related death is a 70-year-old woman from Jefferson County who died Sept. 29 at St. Charles Bend. The death certificate listed COVID-19 disease or SARS-CoV-2 as a cause of death or a significant condition contributing to death. She had underlying conditions.

Oregon’s 5,140th COVID-19 related death is a 78-year-old man from Benton County who tested positive Nov. 9 and died Nov. 23 at Good Samaritan Regional Medical Center. Presence of underlying conditions is being confirmed.

Oregon’s 5,141st COVID-19 related death is a 65-year-old man from Josephine County who died Aug. 19 at his residence. The death certificate listed COVID-19 disease or SARS-CoV-2 as a cause of death or a significant condition contributing to death. Presence of underlying conditions is being confirmed.

Oregon’s 5,142nd COVID-19 related death is a 57-year-old man from Josephine County who tested positive Nov. 1 and died Nov. 23 at Asante Three Rivers Medical Center. He had no underlying conditions.

Updated information is known about Oregon’s 4,990th COVID-19 related death, a 42-year-old-man from Josephine County who tested positive Sept. 4 and died Sept. 3. He was originally reported as having died Sept. 4.

Updated information is known about Oregon’s 4,957th COVID-19 related death, an 84-year-old woman from Josephine County who tested positive Sept. 1 and died Sept. 12. She was originally reported as being an 83-year-old woman.

Updated information is known about Oregon’s 4,764th COVID-19 related death, a 59-year-old man from Josephine County who tested positive Aug. 23 and died Sept. 6 at Oregon Health & Science University Hospital. He had underlying conditions. He was previously reported as a 58-year-old man from Josephine County who died at Asante Three Rivers Medical Center with no underlying conditions.

A date was incorrectly reported on Nov. 24. Oregon’s 5,095th COVID-19-related death is a 65-year-old man from Clackamas County who died Nov. 24, 2020, at his residence. The death certificate listed COVID-19 disease or SARS-CoV-2 as a cause of death or a significant condition contributing to death. He had underlying conditions.
BBM
Oregon reports 2,598 new confirmed and presumptive COVID-19 cases, 27 new deaths

Sorry I asked a question. Splitting hairs?

 

[Lilibet]

So sorry for your loss, I also lost a nephew to covid, no underlying health issues.

But there are cases out there that have ppl listed as covid death when they died by other means that tested positive for covid after death.


Jmo

I’m so sorry about your nephew. As I mentioned above, it isn’t always possible to know how significant a role covid played in the death, so just saying they “tested positive,” as Oregon does, seems to cover that ambiguity, while still being accurate about covid being present. JMO

 

[Lilibet]

Sorry I asked a question. Splitting hairs?

Your question was fine @Elley Mae. But I live in an area of extreme covid denial where people do split hairs about “with” or “from” covid in order to minimize it. I wasn’t implying that you were doing that. But I do think it’s important to point out that it is a question that can imply more than just curiosity.

 

[Suglo]

Are you in the US? If so is your granddaughter a US citizen?

My daughter is booked on Dec 11 to go to France to spend Christmas with her Dad. She is a dual citizen.
If borders are closed, does the US allow citizens to return?
I don't think she should go personally, too soon. She is an ER nurse and I fear that if she couldn't get back for some time, it might result in ramifications with her employment.

My daughter is a dual citizen with Spain. She flew last spring when the borders were closed to most of Europe. They do allow US Citizens to return from abroad even if the borders close. She had no problem getting into Europe or coming back. My sister in law who is from Spain also has flown back and forth several times during the lockdowns due to her mother dying of cancer. Don’t worry. Your daughter will be allowed to return.