Coronavirus COVID-19 - Global Health Pandemic #103

[mickey2942]

Yeah I don’t understand why COVID vaccination wouldn’t be documented in the patient’s chart. It is pertinent to their medical treatment. We always update and document all vaccinations, including tetanus, hepatitis, etc.

Yes, I notified my primary care provider of vaccine status, because I had it done by county health department.

I sort of lost my vaccine card, I didn't know that is was going to be "key" to everything going forward. Fortunately, I have a copy.

 

[MrX]

The problem is that despite whatever measures are in place, it is up to people to follow through.

Here is what I have seen from the trenches of always-on-the-frontline NYC.

We have very strict laws about vaccine proof before entering any indoor establishment. We have a fairly high vaccination rate. We have mandatory masking.

In reality the only ones following these laws are the people who take Covid seriously. Each time.

From massive NYC events to the stores on my block and even in my apartment building of 23 stories, some follow the laws and some don't.

We have neighbors entering the elevators and lobby who aren't wearing masks; this despite our state, our city and my apartment complex all having rules and laws mandating masks indoors.

Every restaurant here has signs saying no entry without masks and that vaccination proof is required. But my friends who do go indoors (I don't) say that no one really checks. The owners lost money over these two years and don't want to turn away customers.

Even in my own doctor's office, where I had to go, there were patients and the doctor's own receptionist with their masks on their chins. For which I raised hell.

Then, despite de Blasio instituting all these laws about masks and vaccine proof, and our governor too who replaced Cuomo, they still allowed Santa-con here. That brought people from everywhere who crowded the streets and then went drinking, obviously maskless, in every bar in Manhattan. There was the Anime-Con that started the surge in NYC although we were going to get it one way or another. It goes without saying that there are people arriving here from all over the world and a negative test is either not steadily done in real life or it's inaccurate. They bring Covid here and they bring it back to their cities, states and countries.

Every second of every day in NYC there are crowds indoors and out, without the scrupulous checking of our "draconian" requirements.
People want to go out and the stores, restaurants, bars and massive venues like stadiums want customers.

So it's a mirage. If what was preached was in fact practiced, we wouldn't always be the epicenter.

IMO

You make a good point. I always got the impression that everyone in NYC played along, and those that didn't had already moved somewhere more suitable. In 2020 I remember the endless lists of places in NY that were raided and shut down for violations.

 

[tabitha111]

Did some last minute shopping in Walmart today. Went on our center's bus (I have a car but sometimes I like someone else to drive/park Waiting for our group to finish shopping I sat and observed folks.
I would say majority not masked. I was double masked with KN-95 and cloth mask over it. But what struck me as funny (!) were the unmasked folks who would take the time to grab a wet wipe to wipe their cart handle....LOL...won't wear a mask, but worried about the cart handle germs...too ironic.
Then there was the very elderly lady who was sitting a bit farther from me, unmasked, coughing and wiping her nose with kleenex and asking another person to go buy her kleenex as that is what she came to buy....she was clearly not feeling well...I wanted to shout "wear a mask so others don't catch whatever it is you have!!" ughhh
Wanted to add: that my brother and his wife and two college age daughters are going on a cruise over Christmas! Unbelievable.

 

[HongKongPhooey]

The dilemma as I see it, is that people here for example are not breaking any rules or laws by going to cinemas, pubs, Christmas parties, Santa's grottos, ice rinks etc, Providing they have any required vaccine passports and are wearing masks where they should be.

And people are desperate to have some fun. And businesses are desperate for the sales.

It's asking a lot of people to be the ones to stay home, have no fun, see no one out of work (often when they commute on trains anyway) out of the goodness of their hearts. Especially if they have no vulnerable family members, or can easily avoid them. I dont think we should be screaming in their direction any more, honestly. They're not doing anything wrong, according to our Gov. Make choices, they said. So people are.

I'm so glad I'm not a politician with decisions on my head. Not quite sure what I'd do right now.

 

[Arkay]

You make a good point. I always got the impression that everyone in NYC played along, and those that didn't had already moved somewhere more suitable. In 2020 I remember the endless lists of places in NY that were raided and shut down for violations.

In 2020, the places that were raided and shut down were the tip of the tip of the tip of the iceberg.

Back then, before vaccines and after lockdown, there were laws about how many people could congregate in one place. And masks were required even outdoors. Just looking out of my window, which is on a high floor, I can see 100 people at a time breaking the law. Back then I called 311 frequently, which is the number to make a violation report. I would get an automated reply with a case file number, but NOTHING was ever done to correct the violations I saw with my own eyes.

In NYC there has never been, is not and will never be, "everyone in NYC playing along" with one mindset.

NYC is the opposite of a group-think monolithic city. 8,000,000+ people from everywhere in the world and millions of tourists with their own ideas of protocols.

In my neighborhood alone, within a five-block radius, there are 12 apartment buildings, 23 stories each with 24 apartments on a floor. We can't even get the people on ONE floor to agree to the rules in place. I wear my mask the instant I open my apartment door to ward off the neighbors who just want to do what they want to do. Then we have to enter the elevator and then the lobby just to leave the apartment. It feels like walking through a mine field of Covid possibilities just to get outside.

 

[CharlestonGal]

At this point, I'm just fatalistic about the whole enterprise. This has happened before to humans in history and we're still here. And we'll still be here when this is over. What things will look like once it's all said and done, no one can say.

At some point you have to just accept that things have changed for the foreseeable future and things are not going to be "normal" for a long, long time.

I recall, years ago, a conversation with a friend about how we envisaged the extinction of humans. His guess was nuclear war and cold winter. My guess was a virus. jmo

 

[Teche]

There is no reasoning with someone who believes all vaccines are poison.

I do my best to gather research but I also know what I have seen and heard at hospitals over the past year is not actors or empty ER’s. You learn a lot by just listening and observing. I’ve spent way too many days and nights in a hard hospital room chair (with a mask on) since Covid hit the US to not take it seriously. Conversations with primary care, pulmonologist, rheumatologist and cardiologist also factor into my safety protocol and belief Covid is real.

I can’t talk to people who think it’s fake because that is a slap to us who have close friends and family who have died or health that will never be the same due to Covid.

I quit trying after it got to the point when conspiracy theorists said the govt was either putting alien or Bigfoot DNA in our bodies or a tiny device which would track those vaccinated by those new 5G towers (or other outlandish nonsense). I know people who believe in the above ridiculousness and have tried to convince me. I just can’t handle listening to their illogical vaccine/Covid theories anymore.

I have to focus on keeping myself as safe as possible yet work and take care of those who depend on me.
JMO

I'm with you about being exhausted trying to educate the <modsnip> naysayers. It was making me crazy. I aim to stay in my lane, stay out of businesses that don't appreciate the mask mandates and visit my immediate family. We’ve only eaten at 3 restaurants in 24 months, and I only visit with my immediate family. Thankfully, my husband and I are retirees and have activities which keep us occupied. We’re vaccinated and boosted and keep up with medical appointments. Our goals are to remain healthy and live to see our grandchildren grow up.

 

[Satchie]

The dilemma as I see it, is that people here for example are not breaking any rules or laws by going to cinemas, pubs, Christmas parties, Santa's grottos, ice rinks etc, Providing they have any required vaccine passports and are wearing masks where they should be.

And people are desperate to have some fun. And businesses are desperate for the sales.

It's asking a lot of people to be the ones to stay home, have no fun, see no one out of work (often when they commute on trains anyway) out of the goodness of their hearts. Especially if they have no vulnerable family members, or can easily avoid them. I dont think we should be screaming in their direction any more, honestly. They're not doing anything wrong, according to our Gov. Make choices, they said. So people are.

I'm so glad I'm not a politician with decisions on my head. Not quite sure what I'd do right now.

There was a circumstance this September, in the province of Alberta, Canada. The government was bound and determined not to impose restrictions, in spite of the rapid increase in delta cases. The chief medical officer was seemingly just going to stand aside.

So doctors went on a very vocal media campaign.
Mounting pressure on Alberta premier as doctors and experts call for his resignation

They warned the healthcare system was on the verge of collapse. In Canada, at least, people value their healthcare system above pretty much everything else. The Premier had no choice, he fired his health minister and introduced vaccine passports.
Jason Kenney steers Alberta into autumn of hell

I think restrictions have always been about trying to keep healthcare systems from being overwhemed: people with regular emergencies being turned away, early detection and treatments being missed.

It seems to me most people on here understand that, and fortunately, also, where I live.

IMO it's not about being a good or naughty little girl or boy in following the rules, IMO it's about recognizing oneself as a responsible, adult, contributing member of one's society. Simetimes a real party-pooper.

JMO

 

[weepingangel]

Rhode Island

R.I. health care system ‘is currently collapsing,’ emergency doctors warn - The Boston Globe

More at link
COVID-19 cases themselves, although they have risen recently, are not the immediate cause of the capacity crisis, Himelfarb said. The system is simply too short-staffed to deal with the sort of volume it could have handled in the past. But any further COVID surges would be “unmanageable.” Hospitals don’t even have enough staff for themselves, much less to open field hospitals like the state did last year.

The crisis has led to long wait times and inconsistent standards of care: “rationing resources, unable to provide privacy, and certainly unable to provide any COVID-19 isolation precautions,” Himelfarb wrote. It doesn’t happen all the time, but hospitals now are unable to consistently provide the level of care people are accustomed to in 21st century America.

“Imagine patients dying while waiting to be seen by a doctor who is 50 feet away and, because of lack of staff and thus capacity, simply unable to treat them,” Himelfarb wrote. “This is a true tragedy that is currently unfolding for citizens of Rhode Island.”

She told the Globe: “No one who is practicing medicine alive in this country right now has ever experienced what we’re going through right now.”

 

[Chelly]

Thank You so much! I wish you the best also! I sent my doctor a message yesterday asking for some reassurance that my surgery won’t be postponed. I know they can’t guarantee anything but they can’t blame me for being anxious.

Well, the squeaky wheel gets the grease.....umm surgery. Stay in touch.

 

[Chelly]

How do you reason with someone who believes that vaccines are poison and that the entire pandemic is a conspiracy to begin with?

It is impossible to reason with unreasonable people. Any attempts just raise blood pressure and anxiety level. moo

 

[Chelly]

The dilemma as I see it, is that people here for example are not breaking any rules or laws by going to cinemas, pubs, Christmas parties, Santa's grottos, ice rinks etc, Providing they have any required vaccine passports and are wearing masks where they should be.

And people are desperate to have some fun. And businesses are desperate for the sales.

It's asking a lot of people to be the ones to stay home, have no fun, see no one out of work (often when they commute on trains anyway) out of the goodness of their hearts. Especially if they have no vulnerable family members, or can easily avoid them. I dont think we should be screaming in their direction any more, honestly. They're not doing anything wrong, according to our Gov. Make choices, they said. So people are.

I'm so glad I'm not a politician with decisions on my head. Not quite sure what I'd do right now.

People may be desperate to have fun, but I am desperate not to have a respirator shoved down my throat, nor have to wear diapers.

 

[CharlestonGal]

COVID SCIENCE-Omicron infections appear no less severe than Delta; COVID-19 lowers sperm count, motility | Health

Researchers at Imperial College London compared 11,329 people with confirmed or likely Omicron infections with nearly 200,000 people infected with other variants. So far, according to a report issued ahead of peer review and updated on Monday Report 49 - Growth, population distribution and immune escape of Omicron in England, they see "no evidence of Omicron having lower severity than Delta, judged by either the proportion of people testing positive who report symptoms, or by the proportion of cases seeking hospital care after infection." For vaccines available in the UK, effectiveness against symptomatic Omicron infection ranged from 0% to 20% after two doses, and from 55% to 80% following a booster dose. The report also estimated that after taking individual risk factors into account, the odds of reinfection with Omicron are 5.4 times greater than for reinfection with Delta.

 

[Sundog]

<snipped for focus>

The medical ethics committee met and determined that if there was more than one patient needing a bed and/or vent, priority was to be given per vaccination status. Vaccinated patients had priority over unvaccinated patients.

It would be interesting to read the report on the ethical reasoning regarding how the medical ethics committee came up with this determination.

 

[SouthAussie]

The son of a Sydney man who was infected with COVID-19 when the pair travelled together to Byron Bay, sparking a lockdown, has been fined $35,000.

Magistrate Paul Mulroney said all the offences involved a disregard for public health and safety.
"He did not care at all about the rest of the community," he said.

"I am imposing substantial fines to drive home to other people who don't think this is serious … there should be significant consequences."

Man fined $35,000 for travelling to Byron Bay with COVID-infected father, sparking lockdown

(His father's related court case starts next week.)

 

[MimosaMornings]

Rhode Island

R.I. health care system ‘is currently collapsing,’ emergency doctors warn - The Boston Globe

More at link
COVID-19 cases themselves, although they have risen recently, are not the immediate cause of the capacity crisis, Himelfarb said. The system is simply too short-staffed to deal with the sort of volume it could have handled in the past. But any further COVID surges would be “unmanageable.” Hospitals don’t even have enough staff for themselves, much less to open field hospitals like the state did last year.

The crisis has led to long wait times and inconsistent standards of care: “rationing resources, unable to provide privacy, and certainly unable to provide any COVID-19 isolation precautions,” Himelfarb wrote. It doesn’t happen all the time, but hospitals now are unable to consistently provide the level of care people are accustomed to in 21st century America.

“Imagine patients dying while waiting to be seen by a doctor who is 50 feet away and, because of lack of staff and thus capacity, simply unable to treat them,” Himelfarb wrote. “This is a true tragedy that is currently unfolding for citizens of Rhode Island.”

She told the Globe: “No one who is practicing medicine alive in this country right now has ever experienced what we’re going through right now.”

It is imperative that someone is able to be with the admitted patient to be their advocate as well as perform bedside care.

I found this out when Covid started.
And it needs to be 24/7. Might allow one person if you have medical POA.
Be insistent.

Ask for extra sheets, wipes and gowns because patients lay in their own urine or feces for hours, your food might not arrive (heaven forbid you can’t feed yourself or too weak to hold a spoon) or possibly aspirate on your food.

Medication is a whole different set of issues during a hospital stay.

That’s provided you even get a room.
Just my experience.....JMO

 

[MimosaMornings]

The dilemma as I see it, is that people here for example are not breaking any rules or laws by going to cinemas, pubs, Christmas parties, Santa's grottos, ice rinks etc, Providing they have any required vaccine passports and are wearing masks where they should be.

And people are desperate to have some fun. And businesses are desperate for the sales.

It's asking a lot of people to be the ones to stay home, have no fun, see no one out of work (often when they commute on trains anyway) out of the goodness of their hearts. Especially if they have no vulnerable family members, or can easily avoid them. I dont think we should be screaming in their direction any more, honestly. They're not doing anything wrong, according to our Gov. Make choices, they said. So people are.

I'm so glad I'm not a politician with decisions on my head. Not quite sure what I'd do right now.

As long as you don’t circumvent the necessary safety requirements- like a valid vaccine passport and proper mask wearing with indoor venues or crowded outdoor events.
Everyone has to determine their own level of risk.
JMO

 

[HongKongPhooey]

There was a circumstance this September, in the province of Alberta, Canada. The government was bound and determined not to impose restrictions, in spite of the rapid increase in delta cases. The chief medical officer was seemingly just going to stand aside.

So doctors went on a very vocal media campaign.
Mounting pressure on Alberta premier as doctors and experts call for his resignation

They warned the healthcare system was on the verge of collapse. In Canada, at least, people value their healthcare system above pretty much everything else. The Premier had no choice, he fired his health minister and introduced vaccine passports.
Jason Kenney steers Alberta into autumn of hell

I think restrictions have always been about trying to keep healthcare systems from being overwhemed: people with regular emergencies being turned away, early detection and treatments being missed.

It seems to me most people on here understand that, and fortunately, also, where I live.

IMO it's not about being a good or naughty little girl or boy in following the rules, IMO it's about recognizing oneself as a responsible, adult, contributing member of one's society. Simetimes a real party-pooper.

JMO

I totally understand the need to protect a healthcare system, our NHS has been a priority from the outset. You may have read previously that I myself suffer with long covid (which this week, confines me to home) and I lost a dear relative to covid, I am far from being some kind of naysayer on here are anywhere else. I dont remember the last time we ate out - August 2020 I think.

But we have had several strict total lockdowns, which people complied with. Many times our mixing indoors has been restricted. We are good at wearing masks, even without a law, generally speaking. Our vaccination rate is excellent compared to many countries and apparently the best in Europe. Yet still it comes, and batters us.

Whatever we do, it batters us. And we need the data about Omicron and its severity before politicians will risk losing a popularity contest by imposing another lockdown. Last year on 20th Dec Boris told us effectively Christmas was cancelled. It seems he darent do it again now, without more data. Although watch this space this week, I anticipate an announcement of some kind.

I can see why younger people in particular are desperate for normality and fun, because there appears to be no end in sight. Talking about England specifically - they have followed the rules (and still do). They have had their vaccines and boosters. They wear masks in the cinema. They use vaccine passports, have hand sanitiser in their cars, take LFT tests several times a week.

They are confused and tired of it all, and if many now believe we have to learn to live with this variant, and the next, because all their efforts havent made it go away, I'm not sure that makes them irresponsible.

If the rules and laws are inadequate to protect health services and vulnerable people, its the Government's responsibility to put that right. With financial support for the hospitality industry and any others impacted. I'm not sure its reasonable to expect people to live in self imposed lockdown, particularly when our media and even the Zoe app is saying symptoms are like a bad cold, which, in the case of the 12 or so people I know who have it, seems to be true. Not, of course, that we'd risk my parents being exposed regardless. Nor ourselves, unnecessarily.

 

[CharlestonGal]

As long as you don’t circumvent the necessary safety requirements- like a valid vaccine passport and proper mask wearing with indoor venues or crowded outdoor events.
Everyone has to determine their own level of risk.
JMO

I play a lot of video games (I know, I know) and meeting a "boss" is inevitable if you want to play the game. So you make sure you have the best armor available, full health bars, and max potions before you run into him. Which you will. Guaranteed.

So equip yourself. That means masking, handwashing, avoiding crowds, maintaining your vaccination schedule, keeping your health as optimal as you can and seeking any early treatment available to you. There is nothing more you can do. Literally, there is nothing more you can do. imo

 

[HongKongPhooey]

People may be desperate to have fun, but I am desperate not to have a respirator shoved down my throat, nor have to wear diapers.

Unfortunately the truth is the only way you can be sure to be safe is to stay home without visitors for possibly a v long time to come. This is the reality we are facing.

We are exposed every day here by my husband's London commute. Those packed trains are far greater risk than eating in a spacious restaurant with friends! But we choose not to eat out, to minimise the risk. He worries every day about me getting it again, from him, doing his "essential" job.