Coronavirus COVID-19 - Global Health Pandemic #112

[303gmf]

I found it hilarious. We were in a private room and discussing the wayward direction of the CDC. It was a joke.

I love a provider with a sense of humor!!
If they hadn’t said I sure would have, then ask for a Tylenol if not pg

 

[otto]

I think some are confusing the reason why it's different with the fact that it is different. I think my answer might add more confusion so stick with me here. I hope to clear this up for folks.

No, it's not different from the former vaccine (if by former, you mean last year's 2024/2025 Spikevax formula) because it includes the LP8.1 dose. IOW, that's not the reason it's different.

The reasons it's different than last year's 2024/2025 Spikevax formula, and also this years (2025/2026) Spikevax formula, is this:

• mNEXSPIKE - Its streamlined vaccine design aims to target key parts of the spike protein rather than the entire spike protein, and at a lower dose. SOURCE
• mNEXSPIKE showed a 9.3% higher relative vaccine efficacy compared to Spikevax. SOURCE
• mNEXSPIKE is for people 65 and older or ages 12–64 at high risk for severe COVID-19. SOURCE

Now, WITH ALL THAT SAID... YES, it includes the LP8.1 dose.

Each 0.2 mL dose of MNEXSPIKE (2025-2026 Formula) contains 10 mcg nucleoside-modifiedmessenger RNA (mRNA) encoding the N-terminal domain (NTD) and receptor-binding domain(RBD) of the Spike glycoprotein of the SARS-CoV-2 Omicron variant sublineage LP.8.1 SOURCE

BOTTOM LINE TAKEAWAYS - Both Moderna's mNEXSPIKE and Spikevax will always target what variants are most recently circulating. In that they are the SAME. What's different is that mNEXSPIKE targets key parts of the spike protein (vs the entire spike protein like Spikevax does), has a higher efficacy than Spikevax, and at a lower dose, and intended for those at a higher risk than the general population (65+ and those 12+ with health risks).

Hopefully that clears things up for folks.

Yes, that clears it up. Thank you. That means that the mNexspike is not available in Canada. I was hoping it was available, albeit explained differently, but that is not the case.

 

[Gemmie]

Yes, that clears it up. Thank you. That means that the mNexspike is not available in Canada. I was hoping it was available, albeit explained differently, but that is not the case.

You're very welcome.

Here's what I think is going on with Canada. Sure, I could be wrong, but I THINK it's due to whoever makes the decisions on which vaccines to bring in/administer, aren't quite as versed/in the know as some of us are.

AI said:

While mnexspike is approved in the United States, it is not available in Canada because Health Canada has approved a different, updated version of the Moderna vaccine for the 2025-2026 season.
===============================================================================
That is the exact answer I posted about a week or so ago that a local pharmacist made. "We're only carrying Moderna's Spikevax". IMO it's because they think only 1 is necessary. I'll put a LOT of money on the fact that I doubt they realize that there is a big difference between the 2.

What I'd do is contact Health Canada and explain that there is a difference between Moderna's Spikevax and their mNEXSPIKE. It's the same basic formula in that it targets the same variants, but mNEX was formulated to have a higher efficacy, which benefits the elderly and those 12+ at high risk. I'd give them the details in my post above, along with the links as they can't take some person off the internet's word for it, and ask if they'd reconsider their decision thinking that perhaps the decision maker didn't realize that there is a distinct difference between the 2.

I'd also recommend contacting Moderna and explain the issue in Canada and ask if they'd explain to Health Canada that there is a difference between the 2, and mNEX keeps their elderly population, and those younger at high risk better protected. I can see Moderna wanting to do that if they realize why they might be unable to sell mNEX in Canada. If they can educated Health Canada on the difference, they'll be able to sell more. Win/win for EVERYONE IMO.

The informational post I'd use is HERE. I have to believe the powers that be just don't realize there is a BIG difference or they'd opt to bring in both.

Good luck.

 

[otto]

You're very welcome.

Here's what I think is going on with Canada. Sure, I could be wrong, but I THINK it's due to whoever makes the decisions on which vaccines to bring in/administer, aren't quite as versed/in the know as some of us are.

AI said:

While mnexspike is approved in the United States, it is not available in Canada because Health Canada has approved a different, updated version of the Moderna vaccine for the 2025-2026 season.
===============================================================================
That is the exact answer I posted about a week or so ago that a local pharmacist made. "We're only carrying Moderna's Spikevax". IMO it's because they think only 1 is necessary. I'll put a LOT of money on the fact that I doubt they realize that there is a big difference between the 2.

What I'd do is contact Health Canada and explain that there is a difference between Moderna's Spikevax and their mNEXSPIKE. It's the same basic formula in that it targets the same variants, but mNEX was formulated to have a higher efficacy, which benefits the elderly and those 12+ at high risk. I'd give them the details in my post above, along with the links as they can't take some person off the internet's word for it, and ask if they'd reconsider their decision thinking that perhaps the decision maker didn't realize that there is a distinct difference between the 2.

I'd also recommend contacting Moderna and explain the issue in Canada and ask if they'd explain to Health Canada that there is a difference between the 2, and mNEX keeps their elderly population, and those younger at high risk better protected. I can see Moderna wanting to do that if they realize why they might be unable to sell mNEX in Canada. If they can educated Health Canada on the difference, they'll be able to sell more. Win/win for EVERYONE IMO.

The informational post I'd use is HERE. I have to believe the powers that be just don't realize there is a BIG difference or they'd opt to bring in both.

Good luck.

I could phone and request the mNexspike vaccine, but I doubt it will make any difference. Decisions have been made, supplies have been ordered, and the best I could hope is that maybe it will be available next year.

I'm not convinced that we're getting good information about covid vaccine in Canada. The variants that are mentioned in the current vaccine are LP.8.1, JN.1 and KP.2. I don't see JN.1 as a variant that is circulating. Although LP.8.1 and KP.3 are circulating, they are barely on the current variant chart.

"The latest vaccines include LP.8.1, an offshoot of the shape-shifting Omicron variant. The updated vaccine "works against the current strains that are circulating," said Dr. Donald Vinh, an infectious diseases specialist at McGill University Health Centre."​

https://www.cbc.ca/news/health/covid-vaccines-fall2025-1.7645267

"COVID-19 JN.1, KP.2 and LP.8.1 vaccines are the currently recommended products for both the primary dose/series (whether starting or completing the series) and for those previously vaccinated. The following recommendations apply during 2025 and up to the summer of 2026"​

COVID-19 vaccines: Canadian Immunization Guide - Canada.ca

Key information, epidemiology, preparations authorized for use in Canada, immunogenicity, efficacy and effectiveness, recommendations for use, serologic testing, administrative practices, storage requirements, safety and adverse events and other considerations.

www.canada.ca

The variants of concern, specifically the XFG and XFG.3, don't seem to be included in the vaccine as variants of concern. Maybe decisions about which variants to targets were made in June, but the variants have changed significantly since then. Everything that is pink and blue is XFG, but that is not mentioned in the vaccine for 2025-26 ... unless I'm missing something.

COVID-19: Canadian respiratory virus surveillance report (FluWatch+) — Canada.ca

Weekly overview of key trends in COVID-19 activity in Canada.

health-infobase.canada.ca

 

[otto]

XFG is a new variant that is based on LP.8.1, which explains why that variant is specifically mentioned in the news. Protection from LP.8.1 is very likely believed to provide some protection from XFG.

Protection from JN.1 offers some protection against sub-variants XFG, although the vaccine does not appear to specifically target the new variants.

"As SARS-CoV-2 continues to evolve, lineages will naturally divide into descendant sublineages - a genetically closely related group derived from a common ancestor. The descendant branches are given new lineage aliases, such as for B.1.1.529 (Omicron) lineages (e.g., JN.1 [alias for B.1.1.529.2.86.1.1]).When a host is infected with two or more descendant lineages, lineages can recombine to form a newrecombinant lineage (e.g., LF.7 and LP.8.1.2 to form XFG). New designations represent refined genetic groups that can be tracked separately. As more research is conducted, there may be evidence of an important difference in terms of transmissibility, severity, or immune escape, at which time WHO may assign a new Greek letter classification to a lineage."

https://www.publichealthontario.ca/-/media/documents/ncov/epi/covid-19-sars-cov2-whole-genome-sequencing-epi-summary.pdf

 

[otto]

This is the information we need! LP.8.1 provides improved immune response against XFG.

"The application also included data from pre-clinical models showing that the LP.8.1-adapted monovalent COVID-19 vaccine generates improved immune responses against multiple circulating SARS-CoV-2 sublineages, including XFG, NB.1.8.1, and other contemporary sublineages, compared to the companies’ JN.1- and KP.2-adapted monovalent COVID-19 vaccines."

August 27, 2025

Pfizer and BioNTech’s COMIRNATY® Receives U.S. FDA Approval for Adults 65 and Older and Individuals Ages 5 through 64 at Increased Risk for Severe COVID-19 | Pfizer

The 2025-2026 COVID-19 vaccine formulation targets the SARS-CoV-2 sublineage LP.8.1, in line with FDA guidance to more closely match circulating strains1 Shipping of the LP.8.1-adapted vaccine will begin immediately to ensure robust supply and rapid access of this season’s vaccine in pharmacies...

www.pfizer.com

 

[Gemmie]

I could phone and request the mNexspike vaccine, but I doubt it will make any difference. Decisions have been made, supplies have been ordered, and the best I could hope is that maybe it will be available next year.

I'm not convinced that we're getting good information about covid vaccine in Canada. The variants that are mentioned in the current vaccine are LP.8.1, JN.1 and KP.2. I don't see JN.1 as a variant that is circulating. Although LP.8.1 and KP.3 are circulating, they are barely on the current variant chart.

"The latest vaccines include LP.8.1, an offshoot of the shape-shifting Omicron variant. The updated vaccine "works against the current strains that are circulating," said Dr. Donald Vinh, an infectious diseases specialist at McGill University Health Centre."​

https://www.cbc.ca/news/health/covid-vaccines-fall2025-1.7645267

"COVID-19 JN.1, KP.2 and LP.8.1 vaccines are the currently recommended products for both the primary dose/series (whether starting or completing the series) and for those previously vaccinated. The following recommendations apply during 2025 and up to the summer of 2026"​

COVID-19 vaccines: Canadian Immunization Guide - Canada.ca

Key information, epidemiology, preparations authorized for use in Canada, immunogenicity, efficacy and effectiveness, recommendations for use, serologic testing, administrative practices, storage requirements, safety and adverse events and other considerations.

www.canada.ca

The variants of concern, specifically the XFG and XFG.3, don't seem to be included in the vaccine as variants of concern. Maybe decisions about which variants to targets were made in June, but the variants have changed significantly since then. Everything that is pink and blue is XFG, but that is not mentioned in the vaccine for 2025-26 ... unless I'm missing something.

View attachment 617323


View attachment 617324

COVID-19: Canadian respiratory virus surveillance report (FluWatch+) — Canada.ca

Weekly overview of key trends in COVID-19 activity in Canada.

health-infobase.canada.ca

What I was trying to get across in my post wasn't about phoning and asking for mNEXSPIKE in the coming days/weeks.. it was about educating them about the difference between the 2 vaccines for future years. It just feels like they aren't understanding the differences, and if they did, they'd make different decisions.

 

[otto]

What I was trying to get across in my post wasn't about phoning and asking for mNEXSPIKE in the coming days/weeks.. it was about educating them about the difference between the 2 vaccines for future years. It just feels like they aren't understanding the differences, and if they did, they'd make different decisions.

I guess the next question is why Canada would dismiss mNexspike, and claim that there's no reason to have 2 vaccines that produce the same result. I believe this is the answer: MONEY.

The mNEXSPIKE vaccine is better, and is recommended for higher risk groups (such as over 65). It is also more expensive. The over 65 group with one health concern is provided the vaccine at no cost (including in provinces that charge a fee for the vaccine). It appears that the Canadian government goal is to minimize cost of covid vaccine, and therefore has not ordered the better, more effective, safer, more expensive vaccine.

Vaccine Pricing | CMS

CMS monitors the public domain and looks for alerts from CDC for new vaccine products. When a new product enters the market, manufacturers should notify CMS at [email protected] Part B covers the following types of vaccines and their administration:

www.cms.gov

What is the difference between Spikevax and mNEXSPIKE?

Official answer: Moderna has developed mNEXSPIKE, a next-generation COVID-19 vaccine that uses only one-fifth the dose of their current...

www.drugs.com

 

[Gemmie]

I guess the next question is why Canada would dismiss mNexspike, and claim that there's no reason to have 2 vaccines that produce the same result. I believe this is the answer: MONEY.

The mNEXSPIKE vaccine is better, and is recommended for higher risk groups (such as over 65). It is also more expensive. The over 65 group with one health concern is provided the vaccine at no cost (including in provinces that charge a fee for the vaccine). It appears that the Canadian government goal is to minimize cost of covid vaccine, and therefore has not ordered the better, more effective, safer, more expensive vaccine.

Vaccine Pricing | CMS

CMS monitors the public domain and looks for alerts from CDC for new vaccine products. When a new product enters the market, manufacturers should notify CMS at [email protected] Part B covers the following types of vaccines and their administration:

www.cms.gov

What is the difference between Spikevax and mNEXSPIKE?

Official answer: Moderna has developed mNEXSPIKE, a next-generation COVID-19 vaccine that uses only one-fifth the dose of their current...

www.drugs.com

Except it doesn't produce the same result, mNEXSPIKE is close to 10% higher efficacy! Appears they don't care. I'd THINK it would be cheaper to prevent hospitalizations in the elderly and those at high risk. But hey! They didn't ask us!

That's a shame they came to that conclusion and not offering the better one (IMO).

 

[otto]

Except it doesn't produce the same result, mNEXSPIKE is close to 10% higher efficacy! Appears they don't care. I'd THINK it would be cheaper to prevent hospitalizations in the elderly and those at high risk. But hey! They didn't ask us!

That's a shame they came to that conclusion and not offering the better one (IMO).

That's true, but I think that is the position taken by the Canadian government. There are two drugs that both offer a base level protection against covid. One of those drugs is better for the population, easier to store, but more expensive. The base level goal is to offer protection, and it appears that the Canadian government sees no reason to offer the safer more effective vaccine at this time.

I have the contact information where we can ask the question, but I suspect that an answer to a different question will be provided. That is typical today, where people do not listen to the question, and fire off an answer that is intended to stop questions from being asked rather than to answer the specific question. Another risk is that the question will be answered by a computer rather than a human. That is also too common. It quickly becomes a frustrating, pointless effort.

By Mail:
Health Canada
Address Locator 1801B
Ottawa, Ontario
K1A 0K9

Email: [email protected]
Telephone: 613-957-2991
Toll free: 1-866-225-0709
Facsimile: 613-941-5366
Teletypewriter: 1-800-465-7735 (Service Canada)

Contact Health Canada - Canada.ca

Contact information for enquiries about Health Canada, its goals, ministers, organizational structure and activities

www.canada.ca

 

[Gemmie]

Spoiler: Not for otto's eyes

I got the mNEXSPIKE vac today that I've been looking for for a while now! Woohoo!!

I see that you peeked, otto. I didn't want to appear like I was rubbing it in so I put my post behind a Spoiler. Curiosity got the best of you, eh?

 

[otto]

Spoiler: Not for otto's eyes

I got the mNEXSPIKE vac today that I've been looking for for a while now! Woohoo!!

I see that you peeked, otto. I didn't want to appear like I was rubbing it in so I put my post behind a Spoiler. Curiosity got the best of you, eh?

Nice! Yes, I'm envious. I might have to cross the border to get the vaccine that I want.

 

[Gemmie]

Nice! Yes, I'm envious. I might have to cross the border to get the vaccine that I want.

I knew you'd peek. hehehe

I know some Oregonians were driving up to Washington a few weeks ago when WA stopped requiring a prescription and OR required one.

If you do it I would. I would just make sure to have a Plan B for a nearby pharmacy in case the one you're going to has run out of it. That would suck to have made the trip, just to get the vax you could have gotten locally.

GOOD LUCK!

 

[Gemmie]

COVID vaccines may have averted thousands of hospital stays in infants, pregnant women over 18 months​

A US modeling study published yesterday in JAMA Pediatrics estimates that vaccinating pregnant women against COVID-19 prevented 7,000 hospitalizations in infants and 3,000 in pregnant women from January 2024 to May 2025.

The Stanford University–led research team analyzed COVID-NET surveillance data on COVID-19 hospitalization rates in infants younger than 6 months and incidence data on pregnant women aged 18 to 49 years under a relative risk of 2.65. The aim was to estimate the health impact of vaccination during pregnancy, mainly during the second or third trimester.

The team also used recent COVID-19 vaccine effectiveness (VE) estimates, including a 35% reduction in COVID-19 hospitalization risk in young infants and a 33% VE in adults.

COVID vaccines may have averted thousands of hospital stays in infants, pregnant women over 18 months

www.cidrap.umn.edu

 

[Lilibet]

Just got home from Walmart pharmacy. We got our senior flu and mNEXSPIKE covid vax. The pharmacist said he was going to have to order more mNEXSPIKE today, so we just made it! I’ll be interested in what kind of reaction I get from mNEXSPIKE compared to previous covid vaccines (bed for 1 1/2 days).

We’ll do the RSV and Shingrix in a couple of weeks at the local CVS…closer than Walmart.

 

[Betty P]

Nice! Yes, I'm envious. I might have to cross the border to get the vaccine that I want.

Come on down, Otto. They have it at our local Walgreens. In Ohio, the pharmacists are allowed to give vaccines without doctors prescribing them.