Coronavirus COVID-19 - Global Health Pandemic #43

[SuziQ]

This is exactly why people who are not medical professionals should not be making public statements about drugs being used as potential treatments when they have no knowledge or expertise in what they are talking about. To do so is reckless and dangerous in my opinion and it is how you end up with people dying after drinking fish tank cleaner.

To be fair, no one should be self medicating. No one anywhere even hinted that fish cleaner would be an acceptable treatment. Unfortunately, there is no cure for stupid.

 

[Midwestmom2019]

That's what is going on right now pretty much everywhere. People are not allowed to enter the hospitals or nursing homes because of fear of these people spreading covid. Not sure what do you expect local media to do? Hospitals and nursing homes are trying to prevent virus from spreading to vulnerable populations.

He is dying and wants to go home. That’s the difference. And any way to call attention to this travesty should be used.
So it’s not pretty much what’s going on everywhere.
However, I think that I’m going to agree to disagree with you....over multiple posts.

 

[KALI]

I feel like everything is potentially infected.
Everything.
I have not kissed Mr. Kali for near a month.
We like to share desserts together. Nope.
We like to hold hands before going to sleep, or hug, or...
Nope. He's on the front lines dealing with our customers.
We don't sleep together. I'm on the couch, he's in our bedroom.
We don't share bathrooms together. We have a 1/2 bath. Tolite and sink. I use that.
With weather permitting, I open all windows.
I wash clothing and towels twice as much, or, more.
I am only venting to you guys.
It could be worse.
Reporting from a Mom & Pop small business owner in So. California
Whatever you do. Try to stay healthy for your loved ones.
Kill this virus.
It needs a host to survive.
Don't be that host.

 

[jjenny]

He is dying and wants to go home. That’s the difference. And any way to call attention to this travesty should be used.
So it’s not pretty much what’s going on everywhere.
However, I think that I’m going to agree to disagree with you....over multiple posts.

First of all, I am not clear what condition he has. If he is infectious, then presumably he shouldn't be released to go home. If he isn't infectious, we don't know if the family is actually able to have him at home.

 

[ZoriahNZ]

That medication is already proven effective and badly needed for Lupus sufferers. They need it now. Not maybe/could be/might be. Let's try not to create shortages for existing patients who have other serious conditions.

 

[EmilyVan]

Because it could be completely USEFUL. And help me to live???

Sign me up too. If I get exposed (I assume at some point I will be if I haven't already) and I get the 'Rona - you bet your booty I want to be treated with the same drug we use to treat malaria and Lupus patients. It's a no-brainer for me.

 

[Deleted member 39678]

We don't know yet if it does any good, and it can have serious side effects. It is kind of like bleach-previous numerous studies in cells show malaria drug can kill various viruses, yet it failed to be an antiviral in actual live humans because dose needed to kill viruses in actual human is just too high.

If what you say is true then why are they still doing trials?

 

[jjenny]

Sign me up too. If I get exposed (I assume at some point I will be if I haven't already) and I get the 'Rona - you bet your booty I want to be treated with the same drug we use to treat malaria and Lupus patients. It's a no-brainer for me.

Not sure where you are going to find it. Claiming it works for covid already created shortages, with people who are prescribed it for other conditions not being able to get their prescriptions filled.

 

[jjenny]

If what you say is true then why are they still doing trials?

Because we don't know if it does any good? That's why you do trials, to figure out if something works before actually advertising it as a miracle cure.

 

[Deleted member 39678]

Because we don't know if it does any good? That's why you do trials, to figure out if something works before actually advertising it as a miracle cure.

Nobody is advertising it's a miracle cure. I think it's time to agree to disagree on this subject.

 

[10ofRods]

To be fair, no one should be self medicating. No one anywhere even hinted that fish cleaner would be an acceptable treatment. Unfortunately, there is no cure for stupid.

One person's hint is another person's folly. People find hints all over the place. Hence that guy who tried to run his train into the hospital ship.

We all need to be careful in what we believe and accept, but also use caution in what we recommend.

 

[Arkay]

That report was from 16th-24th Feb and virus had been identified as originating from bats but the animal that it had then transfered to had not been identified at that point as I posted in the prior post.

"Zoonotic origins COVID-19 is a zoonotic virus. From phylogenetics analyses undertaken with available full genome sequences, bats appear to be the reservoir of COVID-19 virus, but the intermediate host(s) has not yet been identified."

Have you the link stating WHO have since definitely identified it as the pangolin?

In response to this and the earlier, detailed post about China's mitigation measures, all of it will come to naught if the wet markets in China are truly opening up again.
Bats, (if I recall, mainly fruit bats), were the reservoir for Ebola, too. It started with a little boy playing in a hollow tree trunk which was infested with bats and bat guano. It was near the Ebola River, hence the name. My source is Richard Preston's books, The Hot Zone and The Demon in the Freezer. Both were terrifying but IMO so interesting. Of course Ebola seemed too distant to be an actual threat to the US, until we wound up with several cases.
I read these both some time ago, way before Coronavirus. Ebola's method of transmission is very different than Coronavirus, but they both began with bat viruses making the leap to humans. I understand wet markets are a way of life in China, but if they are not eliminated it will all start over again, despite whatever means the Chinese government claims they are using to eradicate the virus.

 

[Sundog]

Yahoo news. Usually a day late and a dollar short.
Maybe she should try a big trial. But then again, there’s no time to research. Run trials. Gather data. Get peer reviews. Publish. Re-trial. More peer reviews.
If I had corona virus and you want to give me new UNTRIED or not really meant for coronavirus BUT MIGHT WORK meds, go AHEAD! Don’t wait for approval by peer reviews. I’ll be dead by the time the peers say ok. Try it on this old lady right now! BEFORE she croaks. I give you permission. Just DO IT!!!!!

Even Dr. Fauci says that even though we need clinical trials to determine the effectiveness of hydroxychloroquine, it is understandble that people will want to take it even with a hint of it being effective, and he has no problem with that. He says there is a suggestion that there is a benefit, although not confirmed yet by clinical trials. He notes that the FDA allows for doctors to use the drug for off-label treatment, so no permission is needed for doctors, they just need access to the drug.

Apparently, 72% of doctors in Spain are prescribing it. (Interview, no transcript.)

 

[Snoods]

it's horrifying
and so is the world's treatment of cows and pigs and chickens and goats and sheep and ...

I agree that all animal cruelty is wrong, it’s why I don’t consume animal products. I support the huge movement against animal cruelty in industrial farming. I am glad for the animal cruelty laws which exist in the USA and most countries.

I’m not sure but I think by the ellipsis, you are equating domesticated dogs and cats, people’s pets, being snatched and tortured to death to the treatment of farm animals? I never understood this comparison. If I am misunderstanding you my apologies.

Since the coronavirus is believed to have started at one of these “wet markets” in China, it should be important to everyone.

Spoiler: Animal abuse described

Should festivals (I previously said Wuhan, but the yearly dog and cat festival is in Yulin) like this continue? Should families at a restaurant watch the dog they are about to eat boiled alive (they remove the collar first if it is a stolen pet), continually pushed back in the boiling pot while it screams until boiled alive? Or they watch it slowly blow torched to death with its legs tied behind it?

Most people do not openly celebrate the horrible abuse of animals, I just know of people who work against cruel treatment of animals. I believe most people balk at the extreme torture of any animal, not just dogs and cats.
I just read that one Chinese city, Shenzhen, became the first Chinese city to ban the eating of dogs and cats. Hurrah! So glad that some Chinese people disagree with this horrible tradition of suffering and want it stopped. I have hope!

Sometimes I don’t express myself very well, so I’ll let someone from China explain it to you:

"Dogs and cats as pets have established a much closer relationship with humans than all other animals, and banning the consumption of dogs and cats and other pets is a common practice in developed countries and in Hong Kong and Taiwan," a spokesperson for the Shenzhen government said. "This ban also responds to the demand and spirit of human civilization."

Animal protection non-profit Humane Society International (HSI)—an organization that has long campaigned for the end of the dog meat trade in China—welcomed the latest move from the Shenzhen authorities, describing it as a "watershed moment" in efforts to ban the practice across the whole country.

”With Shenzhen taking the historic decision to become mainland China's first city to ban dog and cat meat consumption, this really could be a watershed moment in efforts to end this brutal trade that kills an estimated 10 million dogs and four million cats in China every year," Peter Li, China policy specialist for HSI, said in a statement.

”The majority of these companion animals are stolen from people's back yards or snatched from the streets, and are spirited away on the backs of trucks to be beaten to death in slaughterhouses and restaurants across China."

Chinese city bans eating cats and dogs after coronavirus linked to wildlife meat

 

[Arkay]

ITA. I just got snippy with people on my little town's FB page cause they were posting about going to buy flowers/plants. NOT ESSENTIAL. My Dad is currently dying in hospital alone because no visitors are allowed because of this virus. My Dad will die alone without his wife, kids and grandkids there to hold his hand, kiss his cheek, and comfort him. My Dad will die afraid and panicked because of this virus. I am deeply offended that people are STILL going out for non-essentials!

So so sorry to hear this, @LadyL.

 

[jjenny]

Even Dr. Fauci says that even though we need clinical trials to determine the effectiveness of hydroxychloroquine, it is understandble that people will want to take it even with a hint of it being effective, and he has no problem with that. He says there is a suggestion that there is a benefit, although not confirmed yet by clinical trials. He notes that the FDA allows for doctors to use the drug for off-label treatment, so no permission is needed for doctors, they just need access to the drug.

Apparently, 72% of doctors in Spain are prescribing it. (Interview, no transcript.)

Well, there is a problem with that, because we don't have enough of it. So now people who actually are prescribed it for condition its known to treat, having a hard time getting their prescriptions filled.

 

[EmilyVan]

Because we don't know if it does any good? That's why you do trials, to figure out if something works before actually advertising it as a miracle cure.

Here's a small trial

Results from a Controlled Trial of Hydroxychloroquine for COVID-19


"The initial results from a placebo-controlled trial of hydroxychloroquine for COVID-19 indicate that patients hospitalized with mild illness recovered more quickly with addition of the drug than with placebo at the start of a standard treatment. The results also suggest that hydroxychloroquine might convey some protection against the illness worsening."

 

[jjenny]

Here's a small trial

Results from a Controlled Trial of Hydroxychloroquine for COVID-19


"The initial results from a placebo-controlled trial of hydroxychloroquine for COVID-19 indicate that patients hospitalized with mild illness recovered more quickly with addition of the drug than with placebo at the start of a standard treatment. The results also suggest that hydroxychloroquine might convey some protection against the illness worsening."

There are contradictory small trials with results all over the place.

 

[gregjrichards]

Desperate Britons are putting their lives at risk by taking anti-malaria tablets in a 'misguided' attempt to fight Covid-19, experts warned last night. They dismissed claims by French researchers that the decades-old drugs could 'cure' patients and called a controversial study published last month that appeared to show benefits 'deeply flawed' and 'dangerous'.

The pills, chloroquine and hydroxychloroquine, were once commonly used to protect travellers from contracting malaria when abroad.

However, they are rarely prescribed for this use today – as the malaria parasites that cause the disease have become resistant to the drugs.

The treatment is also known to cause worrying side effects, including heart-rhythm problems that can lead to a sudden, fatal cardiac arrest.

SPECIAL REPORT: Forget Donald Trump's foolish tweets - malaria pills aren't the magic bullet | Daily Mail Online

 

[10ofRods]

There are contradictory small trials with results all over the place.

Yes, and as the pre-prints come in, very preliminary, I don't think h-quinone is the ticket. A much more specific drug is needed, probably has to be invented.

Demanding a drug that I think might work ( I have quite a list ) is only going to convince a few physicians. Most have their own ideas. As they should.