Coronavirus COVID-19 - Global Health Pandemic #50

[katydid23]

Brought over from past thread--posted by 10 of Rods:

We have no choice. We cannot have 100% of the population stay away from this. Essential people are dying already and now our economy is crumbling and people are not going to be able to survive. Unemployment and homelessness? That will spread this disease rapidly.

How does a homeless person stay home? And how do we protect all the workers who have to go into those populations to provide services?

This is not a question where the answer is anything other than "people are going to get CV-19 in future." We do not have herd immunity. If there's never a vaccine...or one isn't invented within 18-24 months, we're going to see deaths continue to go along at the rates they're nearing right now.

What is your answer? To keep everything shut down for 2 years? It won't work. People aren't obeying it right now, there's not enough law enforcement in the US to keep everyone locked up at home for 2 years.

Or even 6 months. People are creeping back out as I type.

You can personally quarantine for as long as you like. But with death rates of virtually ZERO in the under-20 population, do they really have to give up their education? I can tell you this: without nurses and doctors in the pipeline, and with people continuing to get CV19 because there will still be nursing homes and hospitals, we are screwed.

Death rates for other causes are going to rise if doctors can't do surgeries or see patients for ongoing care for other issues or provide preventive care. We must reopen some hospitals for non-CV19 patients.

But the death rate is not going to go to zero. We just need to figure out how to keep it low. For as long as it is low, vulnerable people need to self-isolate. A vaccination will be the only hope for those of us taking that option.

This is not a question where your opinion or my opinion has any bearing. It is an empirical question of what is going to happen. As essential workers die and/or are disabled and/or quit, are we saying that ALL of us would just stay home? What then? Where would we get our food?

We are throwing away tons of food right now. Which is fine, for a short term. But if we have no fresh fruit and vegetables by next year, that increases the vaso-risk for vulnerable people. We need healthy food and lifestyles (this is not an opinion, it's a fact).

I wanted to bring this over because there are so many important points to unpack here. Thank You for these thoughts.

One part in particular I want to highlight:

"As essential workers die and/or are disabled and/or quit, are we saying that ALL of us would just stay home? What then? Where would we get our food?

We are throwing away tons of food right now. Which is fine, for a short term. But if we have no fresh fruit and vegetables by next year, that increases the vaso-risk for vulnerable people. We need healthy food and lifestyles (this is not an opinion, it's a fact)"

This ^^^ is what I have been trying to convey, to people who are outraged by the imminent plans to try and reopen some of the nation.

Sure, it would be comforting to think we could all just hibernate until 2021, and then discuss the next steps....but we CANNOT do so.

we cannot expect that the overworked and overwhelmed 'essential' workers that are now treating the patients, growing the food, working in the warehouses and transporting and stocking the shelves, are going to be able to continue, while 70% of the rest of us sit in our cozy homes and watch Netflix. It cannot happen that way.

Sooner or later , but more like sooner, we need to address these problems. People like to say 'forget the economy, lives are more important.' Well, yes, lives are of utmost importance.

But our very lives depend upon restarting the nation because we need to keep food supply chains working. We need to keep our medicine supplies stocked. My important meds are on 'back order' right now and in short supply. I am sure millions of people are in the same boat.

My mother is on quarantine, which is protecting her from CV. But she has missed several very important medical appointments with her heart specialist. Those are vital appointments and she is living all alone in quarantine, and I worry that she will take a turn for the worse, and no one will know. She may end up dying from the preventative cure.

We know 6 people who are about to lose their businesses. These are hardworking people who have built up their businesses with sweat equity and it is devastating for them.

3 of them are clinging to the hope that we will reopen very very soon and they will be able claw themselves up from the basement.

This is not a popular opinion here........but I am feeling inspired right now. I am feeling hopeful and optimistic.

I KNOW MORE PEOPLE WILL DIE. It is inevitable. Even if we all stay locked down, at some point, people will have to come out and we will begin passing it on again.

Our only hope is finding ways to reopen and take as many precautions as we can to try and limit the contagions.

 

[Gardener1850]

I had a dream that restaurants of the future started to be made up of pods for each table, similar to these office pods:

Office pods | Meeting room pods | Acoustic office pods

In my dream we ordered food on a touchscreen inside the pod and the food was delivered via an airlock chamber with UV light so it was totally contact free and the UV lights sanitized the outside of the food container, silverware, etc as the order was delivered. There was an intercom system to buzz your server if you needed something like a drink refill. The pods were sprayed down with disinfectant from a sprinkler head in the ceiling between customers. I woke up before I figured out how the patrons would safely use the restroom. LOL. If I had millions of dollars to invest I would start building one of these restaurants tomorrow. The world is going to be very interesting in the future.

MOO.

 

[LadyL]

Covid Toes are usually red, but maybe some are blue depending on the skin tone. I only have one red patch on my big toe. There's some pictures here at this link.

What are 'COVID toes' and why are dermatologists seeing an 'epidemic' of them in kids?

right below the pictures it says this: Characterized by a reddish-blue discoloration of the extremities, the condition is proving particularly prevalent among kids.

 

[PingTheRouter]

Australian daily cases shows how it worked and how we're going
Coronavirus numbers in Australia: how many new cases are there? Covid-19 map, statistics and graph

in my state we only have 134 active cases now, the rest have recovered with only 14 deaths, also in my small county area we had 30 cases with now 0 active cases which is amazing

 

[Seattle1]

Exactly. Of course they don't want finger pointing---they want to deflect, and not discuss the origins.

I keep going back to a 2017 essay published in the Smithsonian by a historian on the 1918 flu that really stuck with me. He gave a talk in LA about what happened in 1918, how society broke down, and he emphasized that to retain the public’s trust, authorities had to be candid. “You don’t manage the truth,” he said. “You tell the truth.”

I absolutely believe the truth breeds compliance. I also think the public adjusts if the facts are presented clearly and politely. (Translated from German -- something my granddad often said).

How eery is this (from 2017 Smithsonian piece):

[...] Seasonal influenza is bad enough. Over the past four decades it has killed 3,000 to 48,000 Americans annually, depending on the dominant virus strains in circulation, among other things. And more deadly possibilities loom.

In recent years, two different bird influenza viruses have been infecting people directly: the H5N1 strain has struck in many nations, while H7N9 is still limited to China (see “The Birth of a Killer”). All told, these two avian influenza viruses had killed 1,032 out of the 2,439 people infected as of this past July—a staggering mortality rate.

Scientists say that both virus strains, so far, bind only to cells deep in the lung and do not pass from person to person. If either one acquires the ability to infect the upper respiratory tract, through mutation or by swapping genes with an existing human virus, a deadly pandemic is possible.

How the Horrific 1918 Flu Spread Across America | History | Smithsonian Magazine

ETA: As described above, the COVID-19 acquired the ability to infect the upper respiratory tract and passes from person to person and we are living the deadly pandemic.

 

[Sundog]

Everyone must wear a face mask now on all flights in Canada or they won't be allowed to board

Canada now requiring people to cover their faces on all flights

 

[KALI]

Reporting from Southern California.
Small business restaurant.
We have not received ANY help.
Not one cent.
Where is the billions of dollars ?
I want to know Exactly where is the money for small businesses??
We've also not received the $1,200.00 per person.
We've not received a penny.
I am so angry,
I Live in Southern California and pay obscene taxes.
What the hell has California done with all of this money?
What about we small businesses?
Nothing, but talk.
From our leaders who live in guarded mansions.
With no financial help to small, medium businesses.
California is going to see a phenomenal unemployment and reduction of its
Bogus Golden State.
Living in California, is no longer Golden.
Thank You Politicians. MOO

 

[Tadpole12]

Everyone must wear a face mask now on all flights in Canada or they won't be allowed to board

Canada now requiring people to cover their faces on all flights

Looking for a non-medical mask? Check out these 9 brands who are helping out their communities

"Non-medical face mask refer to any mask or cloth facial coverings that aren't N95 respirators or surgical/procedural."

 

[margarita25]

I had a dream that restaurants of the future started to be made up of pods for each table, similar to these office pods:

Office pods | Meeting room pods | Acoustic office pods

In my dream we ordered food on a touchscreen inside the pod and the food was delivered via an airlock chamber with UV light so it was totally contact free and the UV lights sanitized the outside of the food container, silverware, etc as the order was delivered. There was an intercom system to buzz your server if you needed something like a drink refill. The pods were sprayed down with disinfectant from a sprinkler head in the ceiling between customers. I woke up before I figured out how the patrons would safely use the restroom. LOL. If I had millions of dollars to invest I would start building one of these restaurants tomorrow. The world is going to be very interesting in the future.

MOO.

That’s cool, G.

Reminds me of this article I saw earlier today / BBM:

How Coronavirus Infected Some, but Not All, in a Restaurant
A limited study by Chinese researchers suggests the role played by air currents in spreading the illness in enclosed spaces.

“In January, at a restaurant in Guangzhou, China, one diner infected with the novel coronavirus but not yet feeling sick appeared to have spread the disease to nine other people. One of the restaurant’s air-conditioners apparently blew the virus particles around the dining room.”

[...]

“Chinese researchers described the incident in a paper that is to be published in the July issue of the Emerging Infectious Diseases, a journal published by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. The field study has limitations. The researchers, for example, did not perform experiments to simulate the airborne transmission.

That outbreak illustrates some of the challenges that restaurants will face when they try to reopen. Ventilation systems can create complex patterns of airflow and keep viruses aloft, so simply spacing tables six feet apart — the minimum distance that the C.D.C. advises you keep from other people — may not be sufficient to safeguard restaurant patrons.“

A diagram of the arrangement of a restaurant’s tables and air conditioning airflow at site of an outbreak of coronavirus in Guangzhou, China. Red circles indicate the seating of future case-patients; the yellow-filled red circle indicates the index case, or first-documented, patient.Credit...Centers for Disease Control and Prevention

-more at link

 

[firebird]

I had a dream that restaurants of the future started to be made up of pods for each table, similar to these office pods:

Office pods | Meeting room pods | Acoustic office pods

In my dream we ordered food on a touchscreen inside the pod and the food was delivered via an airlock chamber with UV light so it was totally contact free and the UV lights sanitized the outside of the food container, silverware, etc as the order was delivered. There was an intercom system to buzz your server if you needed something like a drink refill. The pods were sprayed down with disinfectant from a sprinkler head in the ceiling between customers. I woke up before I figured out how the patrons would safely use the restroom. LOL. If I had millions of dollars to invest I would start building one of these restaurants tomorrow. The world is going to be very interesting in the future.

MOO.

That would be my nightmare, not my dream! Thankfully, I doubt it's feasible cost-wise.

 

[Seattle1]

So...forgive me if this has already been discussed but #6, is he saying people who take lisinopril are LESS prone to getting severe illness? I am sooo confused, have asked for clarification from my cardiologist but haven't heard back (has only been a day and they can take up to 72 hours for medication questions).

In my non-medical opinion, you are LESS prone to getting a severe illness while taking Lisinopril.

I understood it was somewhat of a two-way street. If you take Lisinopril, an ACE inhibitor, it works to relax the blood vessels so blood can flow more freely.

The ARDS (bad) will cause the blood vessels to constrict and limit blood flow but your Rx works against that (good). The other side is that you already have an underlying condition and why you have to take the Rx but the positive effect of your medication should outweigh the bad.

Hope this helps. Stay safe.

 

[Tadpole12]

Take out has far lower risk factors than dining out in public.

 

[Trino]

Before you say this doesn't belong, it's been a thing to listen to during the quarantines worldwide. Once Andre Bocelli starts singing, it's just amazing. It will uplift you. One of the positives I've found lately.

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[Tadpole12]

patent WO2020060606

WO2020060606 CRYPTOCURRENCY SYSTEM USING BODY ACTIVITY DATA

Monitoring for proof positive of inoculation of future covid-19 vaccine?
'body activity data'.

FDA approves implantable chip to access medical records

Implantable chip

 

[Curious Me]

right below the pictures it says this: Characterized by a reddish-blue discoloration of the extremities, the condition is proving particularly prevalent among kids.

Yes, Covid Toes prevalent in children. My friend says it proves what a kid I am.

 

[Midwestmom2019]

I keep going back to a 2017 essay published in the Smithsonian by a historian on the 1918 flu that really stuck with me. He gave a talk in LA about what happened in 1918, how society broke down, and he emphasized that to retain the public’s trust, authorities had to be candid. “You don’t manage the truth,” he said. “You tell the truth.”

I absolutely believe the truth breeds compliance. I also think the public adjusts if the facts are presented clearly and politely. (Translated from German -- something my granddad often said).

How eery is this (from 2017 Smithsonian piece):

[...] Seasonal influenza is bad enough. Over the past four decades it has killed 3,000 to 48,000 Americans annually, depending on the dominant virus strains in circulation, among other things. And more deadly possibilities loom.

In recent years, two different bird influenza viruses have been infecting people directly: the H5N1 strain has struck in many nations, while H7N9 is still limited to China (see “The Birth of a Killer”). All told, these two avian influenza viruses had killed 1,032 out of the 2,439 people infected as of this past July—a staggering mortality rate.

Scientists say that both virus strains, so far, bind only to cells deep in the lung and do not pass from person to person. If either one acquires the ability to infect the upper respiratory tract, through mutation or by swapping genes with an existing human virus, a deadly pandemic is possible.

How the Horrific 1918 Flu Spread Across America | History | Smithsonian Magazine

ETA: As described above, the COVID-19 acquired the ability to infect the upper respiratory tract and passes from person to person and we are living the deadly pandemic.

More from China?

 

[Tripod]

Brought over from past thread--posted by 10 of Rods:



I wanted to bring this over because there are so many important points to unpack here. Thank You for these thoughts.

One part in particular I want to highlight:

"As essential workers die and/or are disabled and/or quit, are we saying that ALL of us would just stay home? What then? Where would we get our food?

We are throwing away tons of food right now. Which is fine, for a short term. But if we have no fresh fruit and vegetables by next year, that increases the vaso-risk for vulnerable people. We need healthy food and lifestyles (this is not an opinion, it's a fact)"

This ^^^ is what I have been trying to convey, to people who are outraged by the imminent plans to try and reopen some of the nation.

Sure, it would be comforting to think we could all just hibernate until 2021, and then discuss the next steps....but we CANNOT do so.

we cannot expect that the overworked and overwhelmed 'essential' workers that are now treating the patients, growing the food, working in the warehouses and transporting and stocking the shelves, are going to be able to continue, while 70% of the rest of us sit in our cozy homes and watch Netflix. It cannot happen that way.

Sooner or later , but more like sooner, we need to address these problems. People like to say 'forget the economy, lives are more important.' Well, yes, lives are of utmost importance.

But our very lives depend upon restarting the nation because we need to keep food supply chains working. We need to keep our medicine supplies stocked. My important meds are on 'back order' right now and in short supply. I am sure millions of people are in the same boat.

My mother is on quarantine, which is protecting her from CV. But she has missed several very important medical appointments with her heart specialist. Those are vital appointments and she is living all alone in quarantine, and I worry that she will take a turn for the worse, and no one will know. She may end up dying from the preventative cure.

We know 6 people who are about to lose their businesses. These are hardworking people who have built up their businesses with sweat equity and it is devastating for them.

3 of them are clinging to the hope that we will reopen very very soon and they will be able claw themselves up from the basement.

This is not a popular opinion here........but I am feeling inspired right now. I am feeling hopeful and optimistic.

I KNOW MORE PEOPLE WILL DIE. It is inevitable. Even if we all stay locked down, at some point, people will have to come out and we will begin passing it on again.

Our only hope is finding ways to reopen and take as many precautions as we can to try and limit the contagions.

Here, here, Katydid23!

 

[Curious Me]

Reporting from Southern California.
Small business restaurant.
We have not received ANY help.
Not one cent.
Where is the billions of dollars ?
I want to know Exactly where is the money for small businesses??
We've also not received the $1,200.00 per person.
We've not received a penny.
I am so angry,
I Live in Southern California and pay obscene taxes.
What the hell has California done with all of this money?
What about we small businesses?
Nothing, but talk.
From our leaders who live in guarded mansions.
With no financial help to small, medium businesses.
California is going to see a phenomenal unemployment and reduction of its
Bogus Golden State.
Living in California, is no longer Golden.
Thank You Politicians. MOO

You sound really bummed out. I wish the future looked better from today's vantage point. I don't know if this small business loans news in unincorporated areas can cheer you up. (Try to ignore the part about an increase in deaths today.)

San Diego County coronavirus death toll rises, supervisors approve $5 million small business loan program

Small businesses to get second chance at stimulus loans

 

[Midwestmom2019]

Reporting from Southern California.
Small business restaurant.
We have not received ANY help.
Not one cent.
Where is the billions of dollars ?
I want to know Exactly where is the money for small businesses??
We've also not received the $1,200.00 per person.
We've not received a penny.
I am so angry,
I Live in Southern California and pay obscene taxes.
What the hell has California done with all of this money?
What about we small businesses?
Nothing, but talk.
From our leaders who live in guarded mansions.
With no financial help to small, medium businesses.
California is going to see a phenomenal unemployment and reduction of its
Bogus Golden State.
Living in California, is no longer Golden.


It went for another Botox treatment, a freezer full of gourmet ice cream, international travel and a wine cave, not a cellar. Where did you think it went?
A new string of black pearls that are so big that they look fake?

can’t fix with edit button. Sorry.

It went for another Botox treatment, a freezer full of gourmet ice cream, international travel and a wine cave, not a cellar. Where did you think it went?
A new string of black pearls that are so big that they look fake?

 

[Curious Me]

I had a dream that restaurants of the future started to be made up of pods for each table, similar to these office pods:

Office pods | Meeting room pods | Acoustic office pods

In my dream we ordered food on a touchscreen inside the pod and the food was delivered via an airlock chamber with UV light so it was totally contact free and the UV lights sanitized the outside of the food container, silverware, etc as the order was delivered. There was an intercom system to buzz your server if you needed something like a drink refill. The pods were sprayed down with disinfectant from a sprinkler head in the ceiling between customers. I woke up before I figured out how the patrons would safely use the restroom. LOL. If I had millions of dollars to invest I would start building one of these restaurants tomorrow. The world is going to be very interesting in the future.

MOO.

You are a visionary! Sounds clean and ever so sterile. I wanted us all to start this quarantine out in our futuristic sci-fi sleeping pods that kept us all safe and healthy plus without any aging. We'd all wake up together where we left off...in the good ole days.