Coronavirus COVID-19 - Global Health Pandemic #51

[margarita25]

The article mentions dog intestines so the infection would be presumably coming from when these stray dogs are being gutted ready for the table. What do they do with the intestines?

Oh shoot you’re right.

Wait a minute...

Holy moly...

Eta:

I posted a list very early on of which provinces specialized in dog cuisine ...It outlined the regions..I also posted some resources from wetmarkets that had dogs

Yes gutting and the organs.

Makes total sense imo if that report turns out to have merit.

—

Maybe dogs blood finally cries out to the world.

 

[tresir2012]

I meant “respiratory” pathogens occurring via “zoonotic spillover” specifically.

(Added as eta for clarity)

The article mentions dog intestines so the infection would be presumably coming from when these stray dogs are being gutted ready for the table. What do they do with the intestines?

The new article has these comments:

ACE2 is made in the human digestive system, at the highest levels in the small intestine and duodenum, with relatively low expression in the lung. This suggests that mammalian digestive systems are likely to be a key target infected by coronaviruses.

According to Dr Xia, humans are the only other host species observed to produce coronavirus genomes with low genomic CpG values. In a comprehensive study of the first 12 COVID-19 patients in the U.S., one patient reported diarrhea as the initial symptom before developing fever and cough, and stool samples from 7 out of 10 patients tested positive for SARS-CoV-2, including 3 patients with diarrhea.

Dogs are often observed to lick their anal and genital regions, not only during mating but also in other circumstances. Such behavior would facilitate viral transmission from the digestive system to the respiratory system and the interchange between a gastrointestinal pathogen and a respiratory tract and lung pathogen.

From his research findings, Dr Xia presents a scenario in which the coronavirus first spread from bats to stray dogs eating bat meat. Next, the presumably strong selection against CpG in the viral RNA genome in canid intestines resulted in rapid evolution of the virus leading to reduced genomic CpG. Finally, the reduced viral genomic CpG allowed the virus to evade human ZAP-mediated immune response and became a severe human pathogen.

Breaking! Research Indicates That Stray Dogs Could Be Possible Source Of SARS-CoV-2 Coronavirus - Thailand Medical News

Who is giving the stray dogs bat meat though? I think it is unlikely unless the bats that the lab has finished with are being fed to dogs or disposed of inadequately so that dogs can eat the carcasses. Then spread to humans in the wet market when they gut them for human consumption. MOO

 

[margarita25]

The article mentions dog intestines so the infection would be presumably coming from when these stray dogs are being gutted ready for the table. What do they do with the intestines?


Who is giving the stray dogs bat meat though? I think it is unlikely unless the bats that the lab has finished with are being fed to dogs or disposed of inadequately so that dogs can eat the carcasses. Then spread to humans in the wet market when they gut them for human consumption. MOO

Yeah stray dogs eating bat meat, that doesn’t quite resonate with me Moo.

But the intestinal link from the wet markets as you said. Again, if the Thailand report has any merit then that’s the more realistic scenario, imo.

Good thinking, @tresir2012

(Again assuming the Thai report has merit)

 

[tresir2012]

Well, I’m an idiot. At least I admitted I’m a peon with no medical training.

Review of bacterial and viral zoonotic infections transmitted by dogs

“Dogs are a major reservoir for zoonotic infections. Dogs transmit several viral and bacterial diseases to humans. Zoonotic diseases can be transmitted to human by infected saliva, aerosols, contaminated urine or feces and direct contact with the dog. Viral infections such as rabies and norovirus and bacterial infections including Pasteurella, Salmonella, Brucella, Yersinia enterocolitica, Campylobacter, Capnocytophaga, Bordetella bronchiseptica, Coxiella burnetii, Leptospira, Staphylococcus intermedius and Methicillin resistance staphylococcus aureus are the most common viral and bacterial zoonotic infections transmitted to humans by dogs. This review, focused on the mentioned infectious diseases by describing general information, signs and symptoms, transmission ways, prevention and treatment of the infection. As far as the infections are concerned, the increase of the knowledge and the awareness of dog owners and the general population regarding zoonotic infections could significantly mitigate zoonoses transmission and consequently their fatal complications.”

—-

Okay let me rephrase what I mean specifically, “respiratory pathogens occurring as a result of zoonotic spillover”?

—

Canine Respiratory Coronavirus FAQ

“There is no evidence that CRCoV can infect other animal species or people.”

—-

“No human infections with canine influenza have ever been reported.”

Key Facts about Canine Influenza (Dog Flu) | Seasonal Influenza (Flu) | CDC

—-

I realize the above articles are very general. Just thought I’d take a quick peek..

BSE was caused by putting sheep brains and internal offal into cattle feed. So Scrapie in sheep passed to cattle. This resulted in banning all internal soft tissue from abattoirs being sold. E.g. sheeps heads, pigs bladder, pigs heads etc . Not sure if hearts, liver and kidneys are still sold though.

 

[katydid23]

Let’s look into this further.

UCSF
The Promise and Uncertainties of Antibody Testing for Coronavirus
Apr 23

“Even as scientists at UC San Francisco and across the world rush to develop and validate antibody tests for the novel coronavirus, they are cautious about how the tests should be used. Too much is still unknown about immunity to COVID-19 and the performance of the tests, they say.

We spoke to three UCSF experts – pathologist Alan Wu, PhD; infectious disease specialist Chaz Langelier, MD, PhD; and pathologist Jonathan Esensten, MD, PhD – about how antibody testing works, who it can be most useful for and why we should be cautious.”

—-

Look at this:
UC San Francisco (@UCSF) on Twitter

I am going to put my faith into the human body and the natural mechanism of antibodies.

It is fine to be cautious---but we don't have the luxury of waiting 18 months for the perfect vaccine before we step out of our cocoons.

I think Sweden had the right idea.

 

[tresir2012]

This is moment of maximum risk, Boris Johnson says

The UK is at the moment of maximum risk in the coronavirus outbreak, Boris Johnson has said as he urged people not to lose patience with the lockdown.

Speaking outside No 10 for the first time since recovering from the virus, Mr Johnson said "we are now beginning to turn the tide" on the disease.

But he said he refused to "throw away all the effort and sacrifice of the British people" and risk a second peak.

The PM returned to work on Sunday after more than three weeks off sick.

Mr Johnson was diagnosed with the virus a month ago. He was admitted to St Thomas' Hospital in central London on 5 April and spent a week there, including three nights in intensive care.

He has not been doing any official government work during his convalescence at his country residence, Chequers, although last week he did speak to the Queen and US President Donald Trump, as well as meeting senior ministers.

'Invisible mugger'
In the speech on Monday morning, Mr Johnson thanked his colleagues who stood in while he was away, as well as the public for their "sheer grit and guts".

He said he understood concerns from business-owners who were impatient to end the lockdown, but said: "I refuse to throw away all the effort and sacrifice of the British people" and risk a second peak of the outbreak which could lead to "economic disaster".

"I ask you to contain your impatience," he added.

He said there were "real signs now that we are passing through the peak" - including with fewer hospital admissions and fewer Covid patients in intensive care.

And comparing the fight to someone being attacked, Mr Johnson said: "If this virus were a physical assailant, an unexpected and invisible mugger - which I can tell you from personal experience, it is - then this is the moment when we have begun together to wrestle it to the floor.

"And so it follows that this is the moment of opportunity, this is the moment when we can press home our advantage, it is also the moment of maximum risk.

"I know there will be many people looking at our apparent success, and beginning to wonder whether now is the time to go easy on those social distancing measures."

Continued at link.

 

[Trino]

This is moment of maximum risk, Boris Johnson says

The UK is at the moment of maximum risk in the coronavirus outbreak, Boris Johnson has said as he urged people not to lose patience with the lockdown.

Speaking outside No 10 for the first time since recovering from the virus, Mr Johnson said "we are now beginning to turn the tide" on the disease.

But he said he refused to "throw away all the effort and sacrifice of the British people" and risk a second peak.

The PM returned to work on Sunday after more than three weeks off sick.

Mr Johnson was diagnosed with the virus a month ago. He was admitted to St Thomas' Hospital in central London on 5 April and spent a week there, including three nights in intensive care.

He has not been doing any official government work during his convalescence at his country residence, Chequers, although last week he did speak to the Queen and US President Donald Trump, as well as meeting senior ministers.

'Invisible mugger'
In the speech on Monday morning, Mr Johnson thanked his colleagues who stood in while he was away, as well as the public for their "sheer grit and guts".

He said he understood concerns from business-owners who were impatient to end the lockdown, but said: "I refuse to throw away all the effort and sacrifice of the British people" and risk a second peak of the outbreak which could lead to "economic disaster".

"I ask you to contain your impatience," he added.

He said there were "real signs now that we are passing through the peak" - including with fewer hospital admissions and fewer Covid patients in intensive care.

And comparing the fight to someone being attacked, Mr Johnson said: "If this virus were a physical assailant, an unexpected and invisible mugger - which I can tell you from personal experience, it is - then this is the moment when we have begun together to wrestle it to the floor.

"And so it follows that this is the moment of opportunity, this is the moment when we can press home our advantage, it is also the moment of maximum risk.

"I know there will be many people looking at our apparent success, and beginning to wonder whether now is the time to go easy on those social distancing measures." Continued at link.

You know, I didn't used to like Boris Johnson, but now I'm sure he's on the right track.
The numbers in the US continue to rise - cases and deaths. So, why is the US not heeding statistics and warnings?

 

[musicaljoke]

At this point, China might want to keep us out. China managed to squash it, while we have almost a million of known cases.

I expect that many international borders will remain closed to countries that don't have the virus under control. It would probably be a good decision now, for countries to set parameters for when they will open their borders, lest they have to deal with undo pressure from countries that have uncontrolled CoV-19. I can foresee some countries behaving in heavy handed ways when they are blocked from international travel and trade.

 

[tresir2012]

The money will come from the government, which comes from taxes, just like where the money comes from for other programs. They'll be future taxes, just like existing debt (which most nations have).

I think countries can view debt the same way individuals are advised to: there's good debt and bad debt. Taking out student loans to become a doctor or similar is good debt, because you'll have decades of guaranteed high income, and will easily pay the debt off. Similarly, a mortgage is good debt if you have enough income to pay off a small amount each month, and end up with a paid-off home instead of being a renter.

Then there's credit card debt for frivolous purchases, which can undermine your ability to survive financially, especially if you have an emergency such as a need for dental work, but you can't afford it because you've used all your credit on a lexus and shoes to match.

What governments spend money on, what they'e willing to go into debt for, IMO reflects their values and priorities, just as personal finances do.

ATM it is incredibly cheap to borrow money so governments will benefit from that as long as the recovery generates enough revenue to quickly repay the debt from taxes. It is like individuals deciding to borrow on credit cards at 0% to buy something now that would be higher priced in the future due to inflation. Saving deaths with a relatively short lockdown to prevent a worse scenario and longer economic crash is what countries are trying to do. I think it is working. MOO.

 

[realanastasia]

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/26/health/coronavirus-patient-ventilator.amp.html

Great read, but exposes the terrifying extent to which doctors are flying blind in terms of treating this virus.

Also would be interested to know how much the medical treatment for this man cost—the cost to use a regular heart-lung bypass machine alone is often astronomical (IIRC from a family member’s experience in 2014), let alone also using a “specialized” one that does ECMO, which can’t be cheap. Don’t get me wrong—I am thrilled that this man recovered, just wondering if his treatments would even be suggested as options for patients with fewer financial resources (or less insistent/less involved spouses and kids).

 

[tresir2012]

I so agree with you. This all is going to turn into a humungous poop storm financially.
Real estate bust is here. Texas (oil), Nevada, New York, California, Florida, Louisiana (tourism).
We're already seeing major breadlines, although, via cars in line, versus people standing.
It's going to be bad.
I actually think it's going to be the worst financial calamity we've ever seen in our lives.
The sooner we open up Carefully, the better we will all be.
Yes, I know, full well that people will die.
Hopefully, we've all learned ways to combat this virus and will keep on fighting it with distancing and heightened sanitation.
It's going to be hard and slow going.
For me. At this point, I honestly would keep China away from our borders until they PROVE that they have changed.
That may take a decade, which I am fine with.
Any country that continuously and historically releases viruses into our world needs to be shunned as much as possible.
This is So... my opinion.
My opinion is not going to change at this point via argumentative posts.
So, please don't. I do welcome other opinions.
I will certainly read them. But, I'm not up for an argument.
Sincerely, Kali, in California.

Have you thought up your excuse yet? Be prepared to be caught and told to go home anyway. MOO.

 

[tresir2012]

Well, I’m an idiot. At least I admitted I’m a peon with no medical training.

Review of bacterial and viral zoonotic infections transmitted by dogs

“Dogs are a major reservoir for zoonotic infections. Dogs transmit several viral and bacterial diseases to humans. Zoonotic diseases can be transmitted to human by infected saliva, aerosols, contaminated urine or feces and direct contact with the dog. Viral infections such as rabies and norovirus and bacterial infections including Pasteurella, Salmonella, Brucella, Yersinia enterocolitica, Campylobacter, Capnocytophaga, Bordetella bronchiseptica, Coxiella burnetii, Leptospira, Staphylococcus intermedius and Methicillin resistance staphylococcus aureus are the most common viral and bacterial zoonotic infections transmitted to humans by dogs. This review, focused on the mentioned infectious diseases by describing general information, signs and symptoms, transmission ways, prevention and treatment of the infection. As far as the infections are concerned, the increase of the knowledge and the awareness of dog owners and the general population regarding zoonotic infections could significantly mitigate zoonoses transmission and consequently their fatal complications.”

—-

Okay let me rephrase what I mean specifically, “respiratory pathogens occurring as a result of zoonotic spillover”?

—

Canine Respiratory Coronavirus FAQ

“There is no evidence that CRCoV can infect other animal species or people.”

—-

“No human infections with canine influenza have ever been reported.”

Key Facts about Canine Influenza (Dog Flu) | Seasonal Influenza (Flu) | CDC

—-

I realize the above articles are very general. Just thought I’d take a quick peek..

So this mink story and the tiger and cats that have all caught it from humans is interesting. Can they spread it back to humans and to other animals?

Hey I just thought? Do these cruise ships have the traditional ship's cat to keep mice and rats down?

 

[musicaljoke]

Taxes come from US citizens. The most taxes come from BUSINESSES.

If the businesses go bankrupt, there will be no taxes paid to the government. If the people are unemployed, and have no income, there will pay no taxes.

The government will not be collecting much tax revenue if the businesses are shutdown and people are not working.

Social Security relies upon income taxes too. Massive unemployment will result in massive underpayment to the Social Security fund.

It is a fantasy to assume that the government, in which 40% of the people already pay no taxes but do get many paid benefits from the government ---that the government will be able to continue to pay out cash dividends to large segments of an unemployed, bankrupt population. There is a tipping point.

Those who want to slowly reopen segments of the economy are trying to prevent us from reaching that tipping point.

I sympathize with those who want to get back to work because they simply don't have money in their pocket to buy food or pay the rent. Gov't support is supposed to prevent this, but I can imagine that there are some who are slipping through the cracks and that must be a terrifying place to be.

As far as how the nation will manage the expense, I have no doubt that this is costly. However, it's not so costly that a well managed and wealthy nation can't afford to do it. Some budget items will be deferred. Some expenses will be spread out over the next few years. Some taxes will be raised.

The costs to the nation do not warrant the huge risk it puts on the people, both in lives lost, and lives damaged. There seems to be a singular voice coming from economists who say that putting people back to work too soon will not help the economy. It will create a second wave of illness which will have an even more damaging impact on the economy.

The economists' recommendations are to get Cov-19 under control, and then open the country. Don't try doing little intermediate steps which will undermine the process.

The sad thing about this is that the poorest people feel the need first, and willingly take the risks, even if it means risking the lives of those they love, or their own lives.

Covid Economics: Vetted and Real-Time Papers | Centre for Economic Policy Research

 

[realanastasia]

Responding to this claim from a previous poster : “Taxes come from US citizens. The most taxes come from BUSINESSES...If the businesses go bankrupt, there will be no taxes paid to the government.”

Per the government’s own Office of Management and Budget;

“Individual income taxes are the federal government’s single biggest revenue source. In fiscal year 2017, which ended Sept. 30, the individual income tax was expected to bring in nearly $1.66 trillion, or about 48% of all federal revenues, according to the Office of Management and Budget. The corporate income tax was estimated to raise another $324 billion, or 9% of total federal revenue.”

Who pays U.S. income tax, and how much?

Even if we account for some fluctuations in these numbers since 2017, it is hard to imagine they would fluctuate enough to make the poster’s initial claim (business taxes comprise more of our nation’s annual tax revenue than individual citizens’ taxes do) true.

 

[katydid23]

Responding to this claim from a previous poster : “Taxes come from US citizens. The most taxes come from BUSINESSES...If the businesses go bankrupt, there will be no taxes paid to the government.”

Per the government’s own Office of Management and Budget;

“Individual income taxes are the federal government’s single biggest revenue source. In fiscal year 2017, which ended Sept. 30, the individual income tax was expected to bring in nearly $1.66 trillion, or about 48% of all federal revenues, according to the Office of Management and Budget. The corporate income tax was estimated to raise another $324 billion, or 9% of total federal revenue.”

Who pays U.S. income tax, and how much?

Even if we account for some fluctuations in these numbers since 2017, it is hard to imagine they would fluctuate enough to make the poster’s initial claim (business taxes comprise more of our nation’s annual tax revenue than individual citizens’ taxes do) true.

Allow me to clarify.
Personal income taxes are based upon one's personal INCOME.

If we don't make an income, we don't pay income taxes.

So when I said the most tax revenue came from businesses, I meant that businesses pay individuals their income. Without jobs, there is no income.

>>>if our businesses go bankrupt, then our citizens will also be out of income.

That 1.66 trillion in personal tax revenue is BASED UPON JOBS. Without jobs, there is no individual income taxes to be paid to the government.


RIGHT NOW, it is estimated that our unemployment rate has spiked to 30%

That means a 30% DEFICIT in tax revenue that would normally go to the government.

30% less revenue available already for our government, and the job losses have only begun. Wait until the large corporate bankruptcies begin piling up.

 

[nhmemorymaker]

That would be like herding cats.
My 4 yr old granddaughter has to wear one to go 'visit' her other grandmother, who is receiving cancer treatments now. She doesn't really visit, just goes into the back patio and they wave to each other through the sliding glass doors. But my DIL only got her girl to wear the mask because it is sewn from 'frozen' designer fabric, like from the movie. Otherwise she probably wouldn't keep it on her face the whole time. lol

This IS what will help with kids and with eccentric ol ladies as well... Turning the necessity into fun and cute! I had a couple boxes of surgical masks because I had to do surgical dressing changes for my husband for a couple of years....BUT all my friends were making these lovely masks... I am now collecting them like scarves... well, I have 3 anyway. I am giving many of my surgical masks to "guys" who are not as fashion trendy. Given that I can hardly thread a needle, I have been happy to donate interesting scarves to my sewing friends.. just like "community gardens".

 

[katydid23]

I sympathize with those who want to get back to work because they simply don't have money in their pocket to buy food or pay the rent. Gov't support is supposed to prevent this, but I can imagine that there are some who are slipping through the cracks and that must be a terrifying place to be.

As far as how the nation will manage the expense, I have no doubt that this is costly. However, it's not so costly that a well managed and wealthy nation can't afford to do it. Some budget items will be deferred. Some expenses will be spread out over the next few years. Some taxes will be raised.

The costs to the nation do not warrant the huge risk it puts on the people, both in lives lost, and lives damaged. There seems to be a singular voice coming from economists who say that putting people back to work too soon will not help the economy. It will create a second wave of illness which will have an even more damaging impact on the economy.

The economists' recommendations are to get Cov-19 under control, and then open the country. Don't try doing little intermediate steps which will undermine the process.

The sad thing about this is that the poorest people feel the need first, and willingly take the risks, even if it means risking the lives of those they love, or their own lives.

Covid Economics: Vetted and Real-Time Papers | Centre for Economic Policy Research

From your link:

COVID19 AND THE MACROECONOMIC EFFECTS OF COSTLY DISASTERS
Sydney C. Ludvigson, Sai Ma and Serena Ng

The outbreak of covid19 has significantly disrupted the economy. This note attempts to quantify the macroeconomic impact of costly and deadly disasters in recent US history, and to translate these estimates into an analysis of the likely impact of covid19. A costly disaster series is constructed over the sample 1980:1-2019:12 and the dynamic impact of a one standard deviation (σ) shock on economic activity and on uncertainty is studied using a VAR. However, while past natural disasters are local in nature and come and go quickly, covid19 is a global, multi-period event. We therefore study the dynamic responses to a sequence of large shocks. Our baseline calibration represents covid19 as a 3-month, 60σ shock. Even in this conservative case, the shock is forecast to lead to a cumulative loss in industrial production of 12.75% and in service sector employment of nearly 17% or 24 million jobs over a period of ten months. For each month that a shock of the same magnitude is prolonged from the base case, cumulative employment losses will increase by another 6%, and macro uncertainty persist for another month

 

[tresir2012]

Responding to this claim from a previous poster : “Taxes come from US citizens. The most taxes come from BUSINESSES...If the businesses go bankrupt, there will be no taxes paid to the government.”

Per the government’s own Office of Management and Budget;

“Individual income taxes are the federal government’s single biggest revenue source. In fiscal year 2017, which ended Sept. 30, the individual income tax was expected to bring in nearly $1.66 trillion, or about 48% of all federal revenues, according to the Office of Management and Budget. The corporate income tax was estimated to raise another $324 billion, or 9% of total federal revenue.”

Who pays U.S. income tax, and how much?

Even if we account for some fluctuations in these numbers since 2017, it is hard to imagine they would fluctuate enough to make the poster’s initial claim (business taxes comprise more of our nation’s annual tax revenue than individual citizens’ taxes do) true.

Where does the remaining 43% come from though? Purchase taxes? Property taxes? Dividend taxes?

 

[nhmemorymaker]

Instead of writing about what you have done each day, try to write about your feelings, what you think about, what your hopes and dreams are, and about family traditions, from where you have gotten them. Here's some journaling prompts for May: 53 May Day Writing Prompt Ideas
That way you can make your journal into something you can hand over to your children and grandchildren, so that further generations can learn to know you, and also your family's past. Write what you remember of your parents, grandparents, and other relatives, as you are the memory link between your past and your childrens and grandchildrens future.

Such an important message... I have found that living through all of this just brings back so many memories of growing up with my grandparents. They lived through two wars and the depression, which framed their lives. I realize my brother and I are the only ones who know how to pull the histories and the stories into the present for the next generations. My brother has just transcribed my grandmother's diary from 1939 for all our children. Some of it is just her little details of what she did on those days, but her words are also quite an expression of what life was actually like in those years. I am writing up some stories..... my grandmother's precious wringer washing machine and her pantry labeling system (including the box "string too short to do anything with"), and my grandfather's famous "cherry brandy".

 

[dixiegirl1035]

Who gets California workers’ comp benefits for COVID-19? | CalMatters

“Gov. Gavin Newsom is facing intense lobbying from both business and labor as he weighs an executive order that would make it easier for essential workers such as nurses and grocery clerks to get workers’ compensation if they contract COVID-19.

His dilemma: whether to issue an order creating a legal presumption that essential employees were infected with the novel coronavirus at work, rather than in the community — making it easier for them to qualify for benefits. State lawmakers also have introduced two bills that would accomplish something similar, but the legislative proposals differ in their approaches and how many workers would be covered.

(BBM)
California officials and employers are gearing up for a wave of workers’ compensation claims that could top $33 billion as the state’s COVID-19 cases surpass 42,000 and millions of essential workers remain on the job — and at risk.

Already the state had received 1,527 COVID-related claims by April 16, according to a spokesman for California’s Department of Industrial Relations, which oversees workers’ compensation cases.”

WHOA, never thought of that. Like product liability claims, how would one PROVE where they caught it though.

Dr. Campbell is Great!

Here is this morning's video, where he talks about the paper I posted yesterday and pointed out that 97% of those over 60 that were put on ventilators died. egads.

Comorbidities in New York