Coronavirus COVID-19 - Global Health Pandemic #53

[RosalindaA]

Hi @10ofRods do you have a source re acute patients not receiving the care they need? I havent read this myself in UK news. I am aware that the emergency Nightingale facility in London has barely been used. Also another emergency facility at Stoke Mandeville hospital, at the paralympic stadium, has not been used. Another in the north of England has also not needed to open. Message here is that (aside from PPE debacles) the NHS is coping very well and the measures taken to ensure we protected the NHS were successful for this reason.

I havent seen anything in the news about people not having access to ventilators if needed.

In the UK, our population density combined with our being such a major transport hub have a bearing IMO. We have remote areas, which are also geographically large, such as Scottish highlands and islands, but compared to a lot of countries we are probably packed close together. Also, we have a very multicultural population and sadly the proportion of BAME deaths is not in line with general percentage of the population. Heathrow is one of the busiest airports in the world (7th or thereabouts). In short, a whole lot of people in not a whole lot of space, many of whom seem to be higher risk for reasons as yet not fully understood.

The R number being less than one is seen as very positive here and we are glad to know that we have apparently passed peak. Lockdown remains in place and is overall well observed or enforced by police. Forthcoming weeks are crucial we know and we are watching and waiting for the government to make good decisions (whatever they may be! Rather them than me).

Actual numbers of deaths will remain horribly high due to nature taking its course unfortunately and it is inevitable that new cases will keep coming in from care homes.

Furlough is available to the end of June, which means that companies such as mine can be sure our people will be paid at least 80% up until then. So that clock is ticking in the background, although it was extended once already.

I think what I'm saying is that the general mood here right now is one of cautious optimism, at least amongst my work, friend and family circles. The anxiety is trusting people to follow guidelines when lockdown begins to rise and of course the autumn/winter for which I will definitely be preparing for a second phase.

All JMO of course.

Just have to jump in and agree with you, Phooey. I have not seen any reports of a lack of ventilators in our country, and as we have seen putting people on ventilators is not always the correct treatment.

The figure for hospital deaths today in the UK is 370 the combined figure with deaths in care homes/community is 621. , UK announces hundreds more coronavirus deaths | Daily Mail Online

<modsnip>

I think most people are doing their best in very difficult circumstances. Some countries have natural advantages of less dense and/or younger populations. I think the critical point that will emerge is going to be how many cases did a country have before lockdown was implemented. Again some countries were affected at later times and those that learnt from countries that were already affected have seen huge benefits from this.

One thing that I can say about the UK is that from my perspective we should have locked down about at least ten days to two weeks earlier than we did. We and other countries should have taken Italy's advice which was loud and clear. Thousands of lives would have been saved had we done this. But I would not have liked to have been the one taking these decisions and receiving contradictory scientific advice.
One thing I am happy about is that the lockdown to save lives is heavily supported by most Britons. There is great caution here about relaxing too soon which would be disastrous.

 

[Deleted member 158085]

Everyday I'm making flower arrangements, and it makes me happy. May I offer you some of my virtual flowers that I arranged to brighten your day?

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Those are lovely. I wish I was talented that way. My May Day offerings were pitiful in comparison.

 

[cass523]

It's about half and half in Atlanta. Plenty are opening and 6 large malls open on Monday. My daughter went to grocery yesterday. Different from previous week, no one was following the directional arrows and distancing. Only about a third had on mask.
My paramedic husband worked yesterday and this weekend. There was more trauma and car wrecks that has been in about a month. Also there were traffic jams in the common places that haven't existed in about a month. He did have 2 covid cases yesterday.
Yesterday was the single highest daily new cases in GA since April 7.

Video on malls reopening. One guy talks about what he is doing.
Giving out complimentary masks, will have thermometers on hand, hand sanitizer stations, markings on the ground for distance, plexiglass barriers at food counters, digital sign reminders, and more

at 40 second mark As some stay-at-home orders are lifted, the Simon Property Group plans to open nearly half of its malls across 10 states.

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[Henry2326]

PLENTY OF BEDS FOR COMING WEEKS!

ROME, GA (WFXG) - Georgia Governor Brian Kemp announced the first temporary medical pod arrived in Rome this morning.
According to Gov. Kemp, the pod will begin operations on May 5. This pod is one of four that will be placed in different areas of the state. The other three pods will go to Albany, Atlanta, and the last will deploy based on community needs.

The pod that was placed in Rome this morning can hold 20 hospital beds. The other locations will hold a combined total of 68 beds.

First medical pod arrives in Rome, Georgia

 

[10ofRods]

NorCal city official ousted over remarks suggesting that sick, old and homeless should be left to ‘meet their natural course’ amid pandemic
...
NBC Bay Area reports there was a swift uproar after Turnage characterized people with weak immune systems as a drain on society.

He wrote on Facebook: “the World has been introduced to a new phrase Herd Immunity which is a good one. In my opinion we need to adapt a Herd Mentality. A herd gathers it ranks, it allows the sick, the old, the injured to meet its natural course in nature.”

As for homeless people, he added that the virus would “fix what is a significant burden on our society and resources that can be used.”
...

Yeah - hearing way more of that. The owner of two newspapers in Santa Barbara has now editorialized what is, basically, the same view.

Social Darwinism rears its ugly head. There are many reasons why some groups die faster (like African-Americans in Georgia). It's good, it's fine, right? (No, it's not - but on this, obviously people differ).

We can say the same about missing persons and homicide victims who are not "strong enough" to survive. Women are by nature more likely to be victims of crime - that's fine, too right? (NO). It's a very very slippery slope.

Hopefully you all know that I am not in favor of the most drastic "closures" of society, especially lasting for months and months. Soft openings are fine, and I guess I'm now in the "stratify and shield" camp (which is going to require some planning, but should be implemented soon).

When it comes to people making money, they are quick to abandon the elderly, the ill and the people who have underlying conditions that they could have controlled before this pandemic struck.

Yep, could fix the homeless problem for real. There are too many of us, but unfortunately, most homeless are not elderly and will simply be cryptic carriers of this disease.

I am so glad to have this community on WS where, despite our differences, no one seems to be callous, basically uncivilized - or greedy.

 

[Sundog]

FMLA has already been extended to, I believe, 12 weeks. And that's partially at full pay, then the rest at 2/3rd's pay -- at least according to my HR peron as of yesterday. All you need's a dr's note.

Here is a link to the U.S. Dept if Labor regarding leave related to COVID-19

Families First Coronavirus Response Act: Employee Paid Leave Rights | U.S. Department of Labor

 

[firebird]

PLENTY OF BEDS FOR COMING WEEKS!

ROME, GA (WFXG) - Georgia Governor Brian Kemp announced the first temporary medical pod arrived in Rome this morning.
According to Gov. Kemp, the pod will begin operations on May 5. This pod is one of four that will be placed in different areas of the state. The other three pods will go to Albany, Atlanta, and the last will deploy based on community needs.

The pod that was placed in Rome this morning can hold 20 hospital beds. The other locations will hold a combined total of 68 beds.

First medical pod arrives in Rome, Georgia

It'll be intereting to see if they remain unused like all the rest. I'm guessing they will. Silver lining -At least they didn't create hundreds or thousands of them.

 

[firebird]

Here is a link to the U.S. Dept if Labor regarding leave related to COVID-19

Families First Coronavirus Response Act: Employee Paid Leave Rights | U.S. Department of Labor

Thanks. My bad. It's 14 weeks, but the last ten are for child care not medical leave.

 

[tresir2012]

It's going to be a looong wait, I'm afraid, until air travel resumes in anything like half of normal numbers. The EU will eventually reopen its borders to each other, but I think everyone wants to see cases go down in Belgium, Spain and Italy (even further than they already are). I bet the EU will not allow UK citizens inside until cases there are very much lower.

For me, watching England/UK is extremely enlightening. The IMHE data are already showing higher numbers than their most recently modified projection, because UK is hovering around 600 deaths per day (that's estimated the still to be reported care home cases and the homeless cases - UK has a lot of people sleeping rough). The model said they'd be at 500 today and near to 450 tomorrow. The number of new cases is going in the wrong direction, by a rather dramatic amount - so in a week or two, the death total may go up.

So, it seems likely UK will see at least 1-2 more days with above 700 deaths, and probably an average of 400-500 deaths over the next 10 days. They have so many people in ICU beds long term, that new acute patients aren't getting treatments they need (ventilators still very much needed in UK). That's probably a main factor in the rise. With cases tending to rise in linear fashion, the deaths will too.

For my guess to be accurate, though, UK really needs to find a way to have less than 739 deaths a day, as it did over the last 24 hour reporting period.

Coronavirus UK: how many confirmed cases are there in my area?

As always, the grim death chart is the last chart in a series.

RSBM
There are flights between existing EU countries. I know someone who has just recently taken one.

Also, discounting the lump sum of nearly 5,000 deaths from care homes added on from an earlier period, the deaths in the last week have been averaging around 500 per day so as can seen by the graph, they are already below 700 deaths per day. The PM has said we are past the peak so I hope that is true. Ventilators are not still needed because they are using other methods. Dyson has cancelled some of the ones he was making I believe. I am pretty sure ICU beds have been able to cope but that peak was a couple of weeks ago I believe.

 

[10ofRods]

PLENTY OF BEDS FOR COMING WEEKS!

ROME, GA (WFXG) - Georgia Governor Brian Kemp announced the first temporary medical pod arrived in Rome this morning.
According to Gov. Kemp, the pod will begin operations on May 5. This pod is one of four that will be placed in different areas of the state. The other three pods will go to Albany, Atlanta, and the last will deploy based on community needs.

The pod that was placed in Rome this morning can hold 20 hospital beds. The other locations will hold a combined total of 68 beds.

First medical pod arrives in Rome, Georgia

Interesting. So Georgia gets some extra resources to support its dislike of shutting down. Atlanta is an interesting choice for a pod (not enough beds there? Are people from the counties coming to Atlanta for care?)

 

[MimosaMornings]

Here is a link to the U.S. Dept if Labor regarding leave related to COVID-19

Families First Coronavirus Response Act: Employee Paid Leave Rights | U.S. Department of Labor

Too bad it doesn’t address leave for those afraid to go to work because of the work conditions related to Covid-19.

 

[10ofRods]

RSBM
There are flights between existing EU countries. I know someone who has just recently taken one.

Also, discounting the lump sum of nearly 5,000 deaths from care homes added on from an earlier period, the deaths in the last week have been averaging around 500 per day so as can seen by the graph, they are already below 700 deaths per day. The PM has said we are past the peak so I hope that is true. Ventilators are not still needed because they are using other methods. Dyson has cancelled some of the ones he was making I believe. I am pretty sure ICU beds have been able to cope but that peak was a couple of weeks ago I believe.

I agree - very enlightening, especially when down at the ground level (I read lots and lots of UK news and comments and have several friends in academia in the UK).

I can't comment on the rest of what you say. We shall just keep "hoping" that what the PM says is true and that UK understands what it's in for "past the peak." We can focus on New York, instead, because the state as a whole provides enough data to be truly instructive.

Japan is another one to watch - an island nation that has very different policies than some other island nations. New Zealand and Australia show us what can happen with proper management in the Anglophone world.

 

[Lilibet]

NorCal city official ousted over remarks suggesting that sick, old and homeless should be left to ‘meet their natural course’ amid pandemic
...
NBC Bay Area reports there was a swift uproar after Turnage characterized people with weak immune systems as a drain on society.

He wrote on Facebook: “the World has been introduced to a new phrase Herd Immunity which is a good one. In my opinion we need to adapt a Herd Mentality. A herd gathers it ranks, it allows the sick, the old, the injured to meet its natural course in nature.”

As for homeless people, he added that the virus would “fix what is a significant burden on our society and resources that can be used.”
...

Thank you for posting this @pocketaccent.

Nasty. Wonder if his mom saw that? JMO.

Indeed @Reasonable & Just! His Mom must be so proud.

This man is exactly the kind of person we want to resist becoming, as I posted last night:

But can we spare a moment to think about the words of former Vice President Hubert Humphrey (often erroneously attributed to Ghandi)...

“The moral test of government is how that government treats those who are in the dawn of life, the children; those who are in the twilight of life, the elderly; those who are in the shadows of life, the sick, the needy and the handicapped.”

Former President Jimmy Carter put it this way...“The measure of a society is found in how they treat their weakest and most helpless citizens.

I would add that how we think about and value these ones is the measure of us as individuals. So let’s resist thinking and talking in purely statistical or demographic terms as we move forward, and let us show that these lives lost and yet to be lost are truly valued.

Coronavirus COVID-19 - Global Health Pandemic #53

He clearly puts no value on the weakest citizens, but extends the expression “herd immunity” to the idea of treating them as some animals treat the weak members of their herd. He links the outrage his remarks elicited with a “political agenda.” No sir, it’s a human agenda...and our treatment of the weak is not an “issue of ecological balance.” But I can think of some who acted on those beliefs during the Holocaust of World War II...

Turnage insisted Wednesday he had no intention of resigning or backing down from his comments. He also strongly objected to being called racist saying his position was simply an issue of "ecological balance." He said he was "baffled" by the reaction to what he called his personal opinion.

At the opening of the video meeting, Turnage was allowed to read a statement in his defense via phone and said, "My personal opinion had nothing to do with the city or my position on the Planning Commission. So to try to somehow link them or create a nexus to further your political agendas is shameful."

He added, "having it viewed as offensive speech, then targeting me with repercussion for this is a direct violation of my First Amendment Rights and should not happen under our Constitution!"

BBM

Antioch City Council Removes Planning Commissioner After Viral Uproar Over Remarks

 

[CSIDreamer]

PLENTY OF BEDS FOR COMING WEEKS!

ROME, GA (WFXG) - Georgia Governor Brian Kemp announced the first temporary medical pod arrived in Rome this morning.
According to Gov. Kemp, the pod will begin operations on May 5. This pod is one of four that will be placed in different areas of the state. The other three pods will go to Albany, Atlanta, and the last will deploy based on community needs.

The pod that was placed in Rome this morning can hold 20 hospital beds. The other locations will hold a combined total of 68 beds.

First medical pod arrives in Rome, Georgia

If you remember can you post a photo of a completed pod? That doesn't sound like the medical tents I'm used to seeing.

 

[jjenny]

It'll be intereting to see if they remain unused like all the rest. I'm guessing they will. Silver lining -At least they didn't create hundreds or thousands of them.

I fail to see any reason for these pods to remain unused. Georgia lifted the lockdown. Clearly they should expect many more cases.

 

[firebird]

I fail to see any reason for these pods to remain unused. Georgia lifted the lockdown. Clearly they should expect many more cases.

They "expected" all the other to be used, too. And that was mostly before any lockdown at all. Anyway, I'm optimistic they'll be a complete waste of money and effort.

 

[HongKongPhooey]

Then I suggest everyone clearly state where they live. I've lived in many places - does that not count? THere's been TONS of nitpicking of the US all over the world - especially by people from Canada and the UK (I think it's justified). "nitpicking" means "paying attention to small details."

Is that the problem? That some of us pay attention to small details all over the world?

I will certainly cease and desist - but I'll start asking where posters are from. Because the idea that the "US has the greatest number of cases" is a lie. We don't.

Per capita, we are doing better than many other places. Of course, "nitpicking" includes looking closely at best and worst examples and trying to figure out why.

I'll stop with that too.

I do find it interesting to look at other countries' models. Sweden, of course, I'm mostly thinking of. I've visited several times and have always been impressed by their healthy lifestyle and even in Stockholm, with its islands, how spacious it felt. There will be so many things to learn from so many places when the crisis has passed.

I wish the UK had responded more quickly. I remember telling work colleagues "we are 3 weeks behind Italy" and them looking at me as if I was some kind of hysteric.

The people I really worry for are those in deprived high populated areas of very poor countries. Not just for those with the severe cases who wont get medical help, but even the mild cases. I took paracetamol round the clock for a week to ease muscle pains and headaches. In my comfy bed, with my own loo, plenty of water and fresh food. I cant imagine how it must be in some places .

 

[tresir2012]

I've got you.

In the early days (all of just weeks ago) some of the projections were that we would have hundreds of thousands of deaths and there was a big panic to try and source more ventilators. But the orders were not all placed because they weren't required. Long may that continue.

The adverse effects of using ventilators is known here. I think it became more real still when Boris was in Intensive Care and not placed on one. Lots of media info at that point.

I agree the demand changed. Also this is mentioned in the BBC article too.

"The UK is understood to currently have about 10,000 ventilators having added to the previous stock of just over 8,000 by increasing production and sourcing other machines from overseas.

A number of ventilators have also been acquired from private hospitals.

Health Secretary Matt Hancock has said the country needs 18,000 machines for when the virus peaks, down from an original estimate of 30,000.

Mr Hancock told the BBC's Andrew Marr programme on 5 April that projected demand had come down because social distancing measures were working.

The exact type of extra ventilators needed, and who makes them, is still being finalised."

So because we are the tops at social distancing, our cases began to come down sooner than forecast.

ETA. I found the Dyson article saying ventilators not required and this was around 24th April.

Dyson Covid-19 ventilators are 'no longer required'

 

[10ofRods]

BBM. I completely agree. This constant nitpicking apart of posters from countries "we" don't live in is becoming tiresome. Jmo

Can you give any examples other than me talking about UK's preparedness in an attempt to explain something that's in the CoVid figures?

 

[CSIDreamer]

Thank you for posting this @pocketaccent.



Indeed @Reasonable & Just! His Mom must be so proud.

This man is exactly the kind of person we want to resist becoming, as I posted last night:

But can we spare a moment to think about the words of former Vice President Hubert Humphrey (often erroneously attributed to Ghandi)...

“The moral test of government is how that government treats those who are in the dawn of life, the children; those who are in the twilight of life, the elderly; those who are in the shadows of life, the sick, the needy and the handicapped.”

Former President Jimmy Carter put it this way...“The measure of a society is found in how they treat their weakest and most helpless citizens.

I would add that how we think about and value these ones is the measure of us as individuals. So let’s resist thinking and talking in purely statistical or demographic terms as we move forward, and let us show that these lives lost and yet to be lost are truly valued.

Coronavirus COVID-19 - Global Health Pandemic #53

He clearly puts no value on the weakest citizens, but extends the expression “herd immunity” to the idea of treating them as some animals treat the weak members of their herd. He links the outrage his remarks elicited with a “political agenda.” No sir, it’s a human agenda...and our treatment of the weak is not an “issue of ecological balance.” But I can think of some who acted on those beliefs during the Holocaust of World War II...

Turnage insisted Wednesday he had no intention of resigning or backing down from his comments. He also strongly objected to being called racist saying his position was simply an issue of "ecological balance." He said he was "baffled" by the reaction to what he called his personal opinion.

At the opening of the video meeting, Turnage was allowed to read a statement in his defense via phone and said, "My personal opinion had nothing to do with the city or my position on the Planning Commission. So to try to somehow link them or create a nexus to further your political agendas is shameful."

He added, "having it viewed as offensive speech, then targeting me with repercussion for this is a direct violation of my First Amendment Rights and should not happen under our Constitution!"

Antioch City Council Removes Planning Commissioner After Viral Uproar Over Remarks

You know, we may not believe we have much power on our own. I may be a total Pollyanna complete with rose colored glasses but I think we can start to bring awareness.

We need to start asking at our own local levels - what happened? What can we do to level the playing field here? How can we help if/when the next wave comes in? (This is rhetorical).

The thing is these care homes thought they were doing the best thing by closing down to visitors and such. It's all went very wrong. We all know that.

But we need to keep asking. We need to keep caring.

For every voice that wants to devalue our marginalized citizens - homeless, elderly - another 100 voices need to rise up and drown them out.

Jmo