Coronavirus COVID-19 - Global Health Pandemic #53

[cass523]

Fact check: Hospitals get paid more if patients listed as COVID-19, on ventilators

Earlier today, I was checking out articles on the internet before coming to WS
I saw some posts and I added a reply because I just read an article on death certificates.

My apologies @musicaljoke, my post was not directed to you. I should have made my own post and not add it on to what you said. I came back to tell you the outcome of the article.

It seems many on the internet were talking about this interview, enough where it was fact checked.
I came on to add this new article I read to my post, but it was deleted. Not an approved source

"Jensen said, "Hospital administrators might well want to see COVID-19 attached to a discharge summary or a death certificate. Why? Because if it's a straightforward, garden-variety pneumonia that a person is admitted to the hospital for – if they're Medicare – typically, the diagnosis-related group lump sum payment would be $5,000. But if it's COVID-19 pneumonia, then it's $13,000, and if that COVID-19 pneumonia patient ends up on a ventilator, it goes up to $39,000."

Jensen clarified in the video that he doesn't think physicians are "gaming the system" so much as other "players," such as hospital administrators, who he said may pressure physicians to cite all diagnoses, including "probable" COVID-19, on discharge papers or death certificates to get the higher Medicare allocation allowed under the Coronavirus Aid, Relief and Economic Security Act. Past practice, Jensen said, did not include probabilities.

Provision in the relief act
The coronavirus relief legislation created a 20% premium, or add-on, for COVID-19 Medicare patients.
There have been no public reports that hospitals are exaggerating COVID-19 numbers to receive higher Medicare payments.


How does Medicare pay?
Snopes investigated the claim, finding it's plausible Medicare pays in the range Jensen mentions but doesn't have a "one-size-fits-all" payment to hospitals for COVID-19 patients.

Our ruling: True
We rate the claim that hospitals get paid more if patients are listed as COVID-19 and on ventilators as TRUE.

Hospitals and doctors do get paid more for Medicare patients diagnosed with COVID-19 or if it's considered presumed they have COVID-19 absent a laboratory-confirmed test, and three times more if the patients are placed on a ventilator to cover the cost of care and loss of business resulting from a shift in focus to treat COVID-19 cases.

This higher allocation of funds has been made possible under the Coronavirus Aid, Relief and Economic Security Act through a Medicare 20% add-on to its regular payment for COVID-19 patients, as verified by USA TODAY through the American Hospital Association Special Bulletin on the topic.

Our fact-check sources

• The Spectator: "Hospitals get more to list patients as COVID-19 and three times as much if the patient goes on ventilator"
• The World Net Daily: "Hospitals get paid more to list patients as COVID-19"
• Snopes: "Is Medicare paying hospitals $13K for patients diagnosed with COVID-19, $39K for those on ventilators
• PolitiFact: "Hospitals get paid more to list patients as COVID-19"
• Kaiser Health News: "Estimated cost for treating the uninsured hospitalized with COVID-19"
• Factcheck.org: "Hospital Payments and the COVID-19 Death Count"
• Coronavirus Aid, Relief and Economic Security Act
• U.S. Department of Health and Human Services: "Guidance for Certifying Death Due to COVID-19"
• Verywellhealth.com: "How a DRG determines how much a hospital gets paid"
• American Hospital Association Special Bulletin
• American Hospital Association special bulletin.
• Email response from Marty Makary, a surgeon and professor of health policy and management at Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health.

Fact check: Medicare pays hospitals more money for COVID-19 patients

 

[cass523]

Doctors at a Long Island children’s hospital have noticed that at least a dozen child patients with connections to COVID-19 over the past few weeks have gotten sick, all with the same symptoms: fever, a rash and other inflammatory symptoms that resemble toxic shock and Kawasaki disease, which can lead to life-threatening heart damage if untreated. NBC New York’s Melissa Russo reports.

Amid new concerns about the possible impact of COVID-19 on children, Mount Sinai Hospital is confirming reports by NBC New York that they are seeing new and unusual COVID-19 related illness in several pediatric patients. The hospital’s chief of pediatric critical care is now issuing a warning to parents to be on the lookout for certain symptoms.

In a statement, Dr. George Ofori, Pediatric Critical Care Director at Mount Sinai Kravis Children’s Hospital said, "Some of the cases that we are currently treating entered our care presenting with symptoms such as abdominal pain, vomiting, diarrhea, and a low-grade fever. Others presented first with a rash, conjunctivitis, and/or cracked lips.”

Dr. Ofori said some patients have developed heart problems and low blood pressure that led to shock. He explained that some had been diagnosed with Covid-19 2-3 weeks before these symptoms developed.

video
More Local Hospitals Report Children With Possible COVID-19 Health Consequences

 

[otto]

Fact check: Hospitals get paid more if patients listed as COVID-19, on ventilators

Earlier today, I was checking out articles on the internet before coming to WS
I saw some posts and I added a reply because I just read an article on death certificates.

My apologies @musicaljoke, my post was not directed to you. I should have made my own post and not add it on to what you said. I came back to tell you the outcome of the article.

It seems many on the internet were talking about this interview, enough where it was fact checked.
I came on to add this new article I read to my post, but it was deleted. Not an approved source

"Jensen said, "Hospital administrators might well want to see COVID-19 attached to a discharge summary or a death certificate. Why? Because if it's a straightforward, garden-variety pneumonia that a person is admitted to the hospital for – if they're Medicare – typically, the diagnosis-related group lump sum payment would be $5,000. But if it's COVID-19 pneumonia, then it's $13,000, and if that COVID-19 pneumonia patient ends up on a ventilator, it goes up to $39,000."

Jensen clarified in the video that he doesn't think physicians are "gaming the system" so much as other "players," such as hospital administrators, who he said may pressure physicians to cite all diagnoses, including "probable" COVID-19, on discharge papers or death certificates to get the higher Medicare allocation allowed under the Coronavirus Aid, Relief and Economic Security Act. Past practice, Jensen said, did not include probabilities.

Provision in the relief act
The coronavirus relief legislation created a 20% premium, or add-on, for COVID-19 Medicare patients.
There have been no public reports that hospitals are exaggerating COVID-19 numbers to receive higher Medicare payments.


How does Medicare pay?
Snopes investigated the claim, finding it's plausible Medicare pays in the range Jensen mentions but doesn't have a "one-size-fits-all" payment to hospitals for COVID-19 patients.

Our ruling: True
We rate the claim that hospitals get paid more if patients are listed as COVID-19 and on ventilators as TRUE.

Hospitals and doctors do get paid more for Medicare patients diagnosed with COVID-19 or if it's considered presumed they have COVID-19 absent a laboratory-confirmed test, and three times more if the patients are placed on a ventilator to cover the cost of care and loss of business resulting from a shift in focus to treat COVID-19 cases.

This higher allocation of funds has been made possible under the Coronavirus Aid, Relief and Economic Security Act through a Medicare 20% add-on to its regular payment for COVID-19 patients, as verified by USA TODAY through the American Hospital Association Special Bulletin on the topic.

Our fact-check sources

• 
  
  
  • The Spectator: "Hospitals get more to list patients as COVID-19 and three times as much if the patient goes on ventilator"
  • The World Net Daily: "Hospitals get paid more to list patients as COVID-19"
  • Snopes: "Is Medicare paying hospitals $13K for patients diagnosed with COVID-19, $39K for those on ventilators
  • PolitiFact: "Hospitals get paid more to list patients as COVID-19"
  • Kaiser Health News: "Estimated cost for treating the uninsured hospitalized with COVID-19"
  • Factcheck.org: "Hospital Payments and the COVID-19 Death Count"
  • Coronavirus Aid, Relief and Economic Security Act
  • U.S. Department of Health and Human Services: "Guidance for Certifying Death Due to COVID-19"
  • Verywellhealth.com: "How a DRG determines how much a hospital gets paid"
  • American Hospital Association Special Bulletin
  • American Hospital Association special bulletin.
  • Email response from Marty Makary, a surgeon and professor of health policy and management at Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health.

Fact check: Medicare pays hospitals more money for COVID-19 patients

How governments are compensated in USA states is quite different from countries with national health care. In countries with national health care, no one profits from listing a death as covid-19 rather than covid-19 related pneumonia.

Does it really matter in the USA? Every other country lists a premature death (even in old people) as covid-19 regardless of the secondary condition. If they have the virus, that is the cause of premature and unepected death.

 

[tmar]

someone decided to be stupid down here

we had almost eradicated the virus, other states have had 0 cases for 10 days

victoria nope.. people continue to think the rules don't apply to them and now we've had another outbreak

lockdown extended i guess >_>

There have been 22 new coronavirus cases overnight bringing the state total to 1406.

^ highhest jump in about a month haven't seen increases like this since the early days of lockdown wave 2 i guess

Of those, 19 are connected to the outbreak at the meatworks, two are returned travellers currently quarantined in hotels and one case is still being investigated.

this is how fast this thing spreads, they identified the meatworks friday, originally had i think 6 cases, then 7 the next days.. its monday and now its 19 extra cases almost 30 people total.. want an example of why not to gather in a small area this has to be it

After 13,000 tests yesterday in Victoria, let's see how many new cases are found.
With the meatworks folk being isolated, mostly non symptomatic, we will see if this cluster has increased further.

 

[otto]

Amid new concerns about the possible impact of COVID-19 on children, Mount Sinai Hospital is confirming reports by NBC New York that they are seeing new and unusual COVID-19 related illness in several pediatric patients. The hospital’s chief of pediatric critical care is now issuing a warning to parents to be on the lookout for certain symptoms.

In a statement, Dr. George Ofori, Pediatric Critical Care Director at Mount Sinai Kravis Children’s Hospital said, "Some of the cases that we are currently treating entered our care presenting with symptoms such as abdominal pain, vomiting, diarrhea, and a low-grade fever. Others presented first with a rash, conjunctivitis, and/or cracked lips.”

Dr. Ofori said some patients have developed heart problems and low blood pressure that led to shock. He explained that some had been diagnosed with Covid-19 2-3 weeks before these symptoms developed.

video
More Local Hospitals Report Children With Possible COVID-19 Health Consequences

Premature death is a consequence of covid-19, even if the actual cause of death can be listed as kidney failure, pneumonia, encephalitis, blood clots, heart problems.

The objective is to not get sick, because getting sick means potentially dying of organ failure that looks like something other than covid-19, or having permanent reduced quality of health.

 

[katydid23]

How governments are compensated in USA states is quite different from countries with national health care. In countries with national health care, no one profits from listing a death as covid-19 rather than covid-19 related pneumonia.

Does it really matter in the USA? Every other country lists a premature death (even in old people) as covid-19 regardless of the secondary condition. If they have the virus, that is the cause of premature and unepected death.

And no one 'profits' from listing a death as Covid19 in the US either. The CARES act was trying to gage how much each patient would cost a hospital for the duration of their treatment:

"Roughly 15% of people infected by the coronavirus could require hospitalization, and a small share require invasive mechanical ventilation. The cost of these admissions will vary by severity and payer. In an earlier analysis, we estimate that, among people insured through a large employer’s private health plan, hospitalization for pneumonia ranged from an average of $9,763 to $20,292 in 2018 depending on severity and comorbidities associated with the condition.

However, patients who need to be put on a ventilator would have much higher costs. In 2018, ventilation treatment for respiratory conditions ranged from $34,223 to $88,114 depending on the length of time ventilation is required, for patients in large employer plans. Treatment costs on a per patient basis for comparable admissions will be lower in Medicare and Medicaid, where providers are reimbursed at lower rates.

For example, average hospital payments for pneumonia with major comorbidities or complications are $10,010 under Medicare, and hospitalizations for respiratory system infections requiring ventilator support are $40,218. Under the CARES Act, Medicare will pay a 20% premium for COVID-19 treatment, but per admission payment is still less than that for the same type of admission for people with private plans, on average."


Many hospitalizations for COVID-19 treatment will cost around $20,000 but treatment of the most severe cases would cost much more

How health costs might change with COVID-19 - Peterson-Kaiser Health System Tracker


So it is not about profit, it is about compensation for the duration of hospitalisation and costs involved.

 

[tmar]

COVID-19 could be lurking within community for 'up to' two years

58 mins ago
...
A leading professor of microbiology has warned Australians are going to have to be on their guard for the foreseeable future since COVID-19 will be lurking within the community for at least "the next six months to two years."
Infectious Diseases Physician Professor Peter Collignon told Sky News said the key to keeping COVID-19 manageable is stopping "droplet transmission."

"This is mainly spread by droplets, people who have got mild infections, coughing or sneezing, touching their hands and contaminating surfaces," he said.

"We are going to have to work out how we stop what we stop droplet transmission and that is actually washing our hands, keeping 1.5 metres away from each other as much as possible.
...
He said while there will likely be a second wave of transmission in winter, Professor Collignon said it will likely be a "ripple instead of a tsunami."

"It is likely in winter we will see more cases than we see now," he said.

"We know what we have to do to stop this spreading, and so if we get a second wave, if we keep on doing what we are doing, we can make it a little ripple and not a tsunami.

"While we will have clusters, and we will have some spread, we will be able to keep it under control and not be anything like we are seeing on television.

"We will be much closer to Korea than we will be to New York."

 

[katydid23]

Exclusive: Sacramento has the lowest coronavirus infection rate of any large U.S. metro area

Sacramento health chief Beilenson pointed out other data that he says may tell the story better: The county’s hospitals has assembled a combined 600 beds for virus patients, in case there were a major surge. But as of Friday, only 59 COVID-19 patients were being treated in county hospitals. The county’s peak was 105 patients on April 3.

Read more here: https://www.sacbee.com/news/local/article242451546.html#storylink=cpy

I wonder why that is?

Sacramento has some crowded areas and some low income areas that would be likely to be hot spots. I wonder how they were able to keep it under control?

 

[Snoods]

North of The Woodlands, TX.

My medical treatment experience thus far for a non-coronavirus related condition:

I called my doctor on Wednesday morning to make an appointment (not Coronavirus related) and he was able to work me in the next day, Thursday. Everyone was required to wear a mask, and I could wait in my car until they were ready to see me. Necessary bloodwork was drawn at my doc’s office.

Lab results came back the next day, Friday, and my doctor also ordered two different diagnostic imaging tests for me which are scheduled for Wednesday. Imaging department also told me to wear a mask.

I was initially worried about a much longer than usual waiting period for anything non-coronavirus related, but so far very reasonable.

 

[tresir2012]

Oh, heck that's bad! I'm a firm believer in back the blue. But that is BAD. jmo

It looks to me like cops were really panicking there. The one cop near the end pulling up and fiddling with his mask sort of sums it up. More worried about his mask slipping rather than reassuring the crowds. Lots of cops and bags of rubbish around. Are the bin men not essential workers?
MOO.

 

[tresir2012]

About 500 gather at Capitol to protest stay-at-home order

Arizona Virus News...moo

So to protest they congregate for BBQs and holding hands. Must watch the Az statistics over next few weeks.

 

[Legally Bland]

Michigan State Police investigators are looking into reports that a Flint dollar store security guard was fatally shot Friday after an argument with a customer who refused to wear a mask in the store.

The 43-year-old guard was shot in the head at about 2:15 p.m. Friday at the Family Dollar store at 877 Fifth Ave. He later died in an area hospital. Police are not yet releasing the name of the guard.

Police probe shooting of Flint security guard in confrontation over mask at Family Dollar

 

[tresir2012]

BBM

Wait what? I am being tracked as to what stores I'm going in? I expect this on the internet with cookies when I visit sites and then find those site ads following me but not when I literally walk into a store.

So I clicked on this cool pair of jeans with flowers all over them months ago, and sure enough this same pair of jeans follows me around the internet in ads.

I don't find this creepy, but it is creepy to have companies track me through my phone just because I walk into a store. So if I go into Barnes and Noble with a Starbucks I will be getting text messages of book and coffee ads?

This has been happening to me for at least 3 years. It is pretty annoying when an ad follows you for months. I clicked on a towel radiator that I liked and it was in my ads for about 6 months after that.

 

[musicaljoke]

After 13,000 tests yesterday in Victoria, let's see how many new cases are found.
With the meatworks folk being isolated, mostly non symptomatic, we will see if this cluster has increased further.

I hope this outbreak is found to be under control. It's always good to hear of people and places where stopping the spread has been achieved.

 

[tresir2012]

Michigan State Police investigators are looking into reports that a Flint dollar store security guard was fatally shot Friday after an argument with a customer who refused to wear a mask in the store.

The 43-year-old guard was shot in the head at about 2:15 p.m. Friday at the Family Dollar store at 877 Fifth Ave. He later died in an area hospital. Police are not yet releasing the name of the guard.

Police probe shooting of Flint security guard in confrontation over mask at Family Dollar

Did they catch the killer?

 

[tresir2012]

We had a crazy hail storm in Bucks yesterday! Then beautiful sun. Weather is as confused as everything else.

Have you seen @tresir2012 the news re potentially phasing the daily commute? I cant see that's a viable option but interesting to see how it pans out as an idea.

I think it could work. I know from experience for example that the London Oxford Street shops don't generally open till 9.30 or so. They could make it midday till 8 p.m. and office workers do 6 a.m. till 2p.m. for example. Then some work from home where possible. Another possibility is a 4 day week but 9 hour days. That would reduce commuters by 20%. It can be done.
How are you feeling now BTW?

 

[tresir2012]

My question as well. Shutdowns slowed it down but obviously didn't stop it. Opening it all up just means cases will go up. We are still nowhere near herd immunity, but I guess we are now going for it? A lot more people will end up dead.

Herd immunity is the ultimate aim. The shutdowns are just slowing it up so health services can cope. We need about 50% to have had it before the winter sets in again in November.

 

[tresir2012]

Ditto.

The people in charge are screwing up big time IMO. Like you said, what is the point of staying home if we're just going to be back to where we started. Very depressing. I'm supposed to get my teeth cleaned on the 12th of this month....I'm going to reschedule even though they have good guidelines in place. I'm just not ready to have a stranger (even in a mask) in my mouth.

That last bit made me laugh.

 

[Legally Bland]

Did they catch the killer?

I don't think so. Or if they have I can't find it reported yet.

 

[tresir2012]

Don't shoot me, but I don't scrub groceries or mail.

For those who do, are you feeling safer?

My main things are handwashing, masking up, and some homemade hand sanitizer in my car. Also, social distancing, and never meeting face to face so to speak in the grocery. I turn to the side so my face isn't pointed at anyone.

Does that turning to the side work do you think? I have done that when people reach across to get an item in the supermarket. That has always annoyed me - more so now.

I wipe down groceries, especially the handles of the milk cartons. It does make me feel a bit safer. Tinned foods that I am not going to use for a few days I don't usually bother to wipe down.