Coronavirus COVID-19 - Global Health Pandemic #56

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  • #1,121
Exactly. Lots of people are living with pre-existing conditions and would have continued on living if not for covid infection.

And many would have died because of their pre-existing conditions, with or without CV infection.

And that is the point---adding all of the cases under Covid seems misleading. There was one recent case where a man died having 4x the legal limit of alcohol in his system, and it was counted as a CV death because they found out he was CV positive.

COPD, Acute Asthma, Diabetes, Obesity , all can create very dangerous complications leading to death. We cannot assume that everyone would just live long, wonderful lives with those diseases, if not for CV19.
 
  • #1,122
11 years ago my dad died from COPD. He was on oxygen at home but towards the end it didn't help much because his lungs were in such bad shape. He slowly suffocated. It was terrible. It was what motivated me to quit smoking.

If in a hypothetical scenario my dad was infected with Covid-19 a month before his death and the virus caused him to die a week earlier than in reality, would his death be from COPD or Covid-19?

I would have to say COPD. If he didn't have COPD he may have survived a Covid-19 infection. JMO.
11 years ago my dad died from COPD. He was on oxygen at home but towards the end it didn't help much because his lungs were in such bad shape. He slowly suffocated. It was terrible. It was what motivated me to quit smoking.

If in a hypothetical scenario my dad was infected with Covid-19 a month before his death and the virus caused him to die a week earlier than in reality, would his death be from COPD or Covid-19?

I would have to say COPD. If he didn't have COPD he may have survived a Covid-19 infection. JMO.

But your example itself posits that, hypothetically, your father caught the virus and died sooner than he otherwise would have, just from COPD. Had he just had COPD, he would’ve lived a week longer. It seems clear that, in your example, catching the virus is the thing that actually precipitates his passing. To me, that would thus be the actual cause of his death.

I’m genuinely curious to understand your point of view (and I’ve been reading tons of LSAT logic questions lately) so I would be grateful if you would indulge me and tell me your perspective on this situation (which follows your logic as I understand it):
Person X has COPD.
Person X is inattentive while walking and gets hit by a bus. They are rushed to the hospital and need immediate and complex surgery that requires they be put on a ventilator.
It is presumably true that someone NOT suffering from COPD might have a better chance of living through surgery (and eventually recovering from this massive trauma) than someone whose pulmonary system is already compromised by a disease like COPD.
If Person X sadly did not survive the surgery, would you say that ultimately their cause of death was COPD, and not being hit by a bus?

Also, I’m very sorry for the loss of your father.
 
  • #1,123
And many would have died because of their pre-existing conditions, with or without CV infection.

And that is the point---adding all of the cases under Covid seems misleading. There was one recent case where a man died having 4x the legal limit of alcohol in his system, and it was counted as a CV death because they found out he was CV positive.

COPD, Acute Asthma, Diabetes, Obesity , all can create very dangerous complications leading to death. We cannot assume that everyone would just live long, wonderful lives with those diseases, if not for CV19.
Do you then object that flu deaths be counted as due to flu if persons had pre-existing conditions? Most healthy people don't die from flu either. Again, we have a large increase in deaths compared to previous seasons. Clearly that large increase is due to covid.
 
  • #1,124
Thinking about this situation....
Type 1 diabetes
A1c being maintained in good range
Not overweight
Covid-19 infection
Subsequently dies.

COD - Covid-19?
In that situation, I would say Covid19 as COD.
 
  • #1,125
In that situation, I would say Covid19 as COD.
Thanks, I’m having a discussion with my cousin about it and having allergy issues today muddling my brain.
 
  • #1,126
Yeah all this “CV stuff” is harder than I thought it was going to be, moo. We’re going to be here a long while, sadly. I wish we could’ve nipped it in its bud.
 
  • #1,127
But your example itself posits that, hypothetically, your father caught the virus and died sooner than he otherwise would have, just from COPD. Had he just had COPD, he would’ve lived a week longer. It seems clear that, in your example, catching the virus is the thing that actually precipitates his passing. To me, that would thus be the actual cause of his death.

I’m genuinely curious to understand your point of view (and I’ve been reading tons of LSAT logic questions lately) so I would be grateful if you would indulge me and tell me your perspective on this situation (which follows your logic as I understand it):
Person X has COPD.
Person X is inattentive while walking and gets hit by a bus. They are rushed to the hospital and need immediate and complex surgery that requires they be put on a ventilator.
It is presumably true that someone NOT suffering from COPD might have a better chance of living through surgery (and eventually recovering from this massive trauma) than someone whose pulmonary system is already compromised by a disease like COPD.
If Person X sadly did not survive the surgery, would you say that ultimately their cause of death was COPD, and not being hit by a bus?

Also, I’m very sorry for the loss of your father.
Covid-19 isn't like getting hit by a bus. It affects different people in different ways.

My dad was dying from COPD. It was not reversible. He also had bladder cancer that was detected a few months before his death. The doctors said he wasn't a candidate for treatment for the cancer because of his poor health from COPD. In other words he was going to die from COPD so treating the cancer was useless.

If he had been infected with Covid-19 the same thing would apply. He was dying from COPD so having the virus wouldn't change anything other than a date of death. JMO
 
  • #1,128
“It’s not specific to COVID-19. It’s more related to how sick you are,” he said.

Nevertheless, knowing the proportion of patients at risk for this condition could help hospitals as they plan equipment and staffing needed for future coronavirus surges, he said.
Of course it’s related to how sick someone is. It’s disturbing that more than a third of hospital COVID patients will have kidney issues.
 
  • #1,129
Of course it’s related to how sick someone is. It’s disturbing that more than a third of hospital COVID patients will have kidney issues.

That is pretty much a death sentence in underdeveloped countries. And would those who die later from complications of COVID19 be included in the count?
 
  • #1,130
“It’s not specific to COVID-19. It’s more related to how sick you are,” he said.

Nevertheless, knowing the proportion of patients at risk for this condition could help hospitals as they plan equipment and staffing needed for future coronavirus surges, he said.

Plus, it's acute.
 
  • #1,131
Packing a Covid19 kit for my husband to take with him on the airplane tomorrow. I’m sending:
5 pairs of nitrile gloves
10 Lysol wipes
2 N95 masks

he has one connection each way. I’m also packing a lunch so he doesn’t have to eat airport food. He’s going to have to buy water once he’s through security but with the wipes he should be able to clean the outside of the bottle.

can anyone think of anything else that might be useful and can be brought through airport security without checking a bag?
 
  • #1,132
Packing a Covid19 kit for my husband to take with him on the airplane tomorrow. I’m sending:
5 pairs of nitrile gloves
10 Lysol wipes
2 N95 masks

he has one connection each way. I’m also packing a lunch so he doesn’t have to eat airport food. He’s going to have to buy water once he’s through security but with the wipes he should be able to clean the outside of the bottle.

can anyone think of anything else that might be useful and can be brought through airport security without checking a bag?
What about a plastic baggie to dispose of his gloves/wipes? In case a trash can is not close or readily available on the plane?
Does he wear glasses?
 
  • #1,133
What about a plastic baggie to dispose of his gloves/wipes? In case a trash can is not close or readily available on the plane?
Does he wear glasses?
He does wear glasses so he has eye protection. An extra ziploc might be handy. Will add it to one of the bags.

ETA: I added two bags, one for the mask he wears in case he needs to store it and doesn’t want to confuse it with the clean one and one for waste. Bags are all labeled. With the wipes and the gloves looks a little bit like an abduction kit. Wipes could be chloroform soaked. (I’ve been on the forum too much). With a ham sandwich in case he gets hungry should make for some interested TSA.
 
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  • #1,134
I always carry lens wipes too - good for eye glasses and cleaning your phone.

I guess everything is paperless now and you have to lay your phone down on the reader for security and then boarding? After everyone else’s phone.
 
  • #1,135
Packing a Covid19 kit for my husband to take with him on the airplane tomorrow. I’m sending:
5 pairs of nitrile gloves
10 Lysol wipes
2 N95 masks

he has one connection each way. I’m also packing a lunch so he doesn’t have to eat airport food. He’s going to have to buy water once he’s through security but with the wipes he should be able to clean the outside of the bottle.

can anyone think of anything else that might be useful and can be brought through airport security without checking a bag?

Goggles or a face shield to protect his eyes: https://nypost.com/2020/05/14/infectious-disease-expert-says-he-caught-coronavirus-through-his-eyes/

ETA: I see you say he wears glasses but I'm not sure regular glasses would be enough protection in the tight space of a plane where others can be coughing/breathing next to you or above you as they put their luggage in the overhead compartment. And the recycled air often blows down right into your eyes. I would look for some wrap around style eye protection to go over his glasses if you have time before his flight.

MOO.
 
  • #1,136
Packing a Covid19 kit for my husband to take with him on the airplane tomorrow. I’m sending:
5 pairs of nitrile gloves
10 Lysol wipes
2 N95 masks

he has one connection each way. I’m also packing a lunch so he doesn’t have to eat airport food. He’s going to have to buy water once he’s through security but with the wipes he should be able to clean the outside of the bottle.

can anyone think of anything else that might be useful and can be brought through airport security without checking a bag?

Another idea to add protection to his eyes/face from any droplets from above is a hat with a large brim.

Also, earplugs, unless the hat covers his ears. I'm not sure it can get in through the ears, but I wouldn't take any chances. And as soon as he gets to where he is going he should have a plan to change his clothes, wash them and shower ASAP. Pretend he just walked through a hospital ward full of Covid19 patients and take no chances.

Also, do you have any hand sanitizer you could send? Even if the airports have it in stations now he may need his own travel size bottle for times he is stuck in his seat and needs to sanitize his hands.

MOO.
 
  • #1,137
Goggles or a face shield to protect his eyes: https://nypost.com/2020/05/14/infectious-disease-expert-says-he-caught-coronavirus-through-his-eyes/

ETA: I see you say he wears glasses but I'm not sure regular glasses would be enough protection in the tight space of a plane where others can be coughing/breathing next to you or above you as they put their luggage in the overhead compartment. And the recycled air often blows down right into your eyes. I would look for some wrap around style eye protection to go over his glasses if you have time before his flight.

MOO.
We have shooting glasses which are wrap arounds. Chemical googles would be best but I don’t think I can get him to wear those:
 
  • #1,138
Another idea to add protection to his eyes/face from any droplets from above is a hat with a large brim.

Also, earplugs, unless the hat covers his ears. I'm not sure it can get in through the ears, but I wouldn't take any chances. And as soon as he gets to where he is going he should have a plan to change his clothes, wash them and shower ASAP. Pretend he just walked through a hospital ward full of Covid19 patients and take no chances.

Also, do you have any hand sanitizer you could send? Even if the airports have it in stations now he may need his own travel size bottle for times he is stuck in his seat and needs to sanitize his hands.

MOO.
We have hand sanitizer. Thanks to this forum I bought a quart in Feb to refill our small ones. Don’t think I can get him to wear a hat. I’ll be happy if he uses half of what I send.
 
  • #1,139
Arizona is 23rd on the "death list" and has less than 500 confirmed deaths for more than 7.279 million people. That means there are 22 states who have even fewer deaths than that. Imo, the push to close and stay closed is irrational. That few number of deaths in 23 states absolutely does not justify completely destroying their economies. jmo
I agree. Texas has a population of 30 million and we have had 1,272 deaths. Yet we received an F rating according to some cockamamie Coronavirus chart.

Nearly half of the deaths have been contributed to senior care facilities.

Nearly half of Texas coronavirus deaths linked to senior care facilities | kvue.com
 
  • #1,140
20200516_012045.jpg Look at this building @ the CDC!
It's a flattening of the graph!
Coronavirus may 'never go away,' says WHO official
 
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