Coronavirus COVID-19 - Global Health Pandemic #59

[Yvettea]

This is straight off the WHO website:

• If you are healthy, you only need to wear a mask if you are taking care of a person with COVID-19.
• Wear a mask if you are coughing or sneezing.
• Masks are effective only when used in combination with frequent hand-cleaning with alcohol-based hand rub or soap and water.
• If you wear a mask, then you must know how to use it and dispose of it properly.

When and how to use masks

This should say wear a mask if you cough or sneeze. That would cover the bases. One cough or sneeze can spread a lot of virus.

 

[10ofRods]

This should say wear a mask if you cough or sneeze. That would cover the bases. One cough or sneeze can spread a lot of virus.

It should say "wear a mask or cloth face covering in public." So weird how this has become controversial.

At the same time, apparently a virus with less than 1% death rate over all age groups doesn't really need a lot of control? I just wish we had published plans and guidelines. We spend so many resources on diseases that affect far fewer.

People often don't realize they're going to sneeze or cough until they already do - and people can have both CoVid (asymptomatic) as well as asthma or allergies (coughing, sneezing).

Still, it probably behooves us over 55 people to just wear masks in public all the time. Why not?

 

[musicaljoke]

WHO guidance: Healthy people should wear masks only when ‘taking care of’ coronavirus patients

This is why people are confused: The WHO says healthy people should wear masks only when taking care of Coronavirus patients: this is clearly at odds with CDC guidelines.

The way I see it, a mask is a barrier- so if someone sneezes or coughs, their droplets stay in the mask--- so what is the harm in wearing it? If someone is asymptomatic, even breathing on someone for a protracted period of time can spread the virus.

i think the WHO is giving bad advice and i just don't understand it.

The article you are quoting isn't a direct link to the WHO advice on the use of masks and is misquoting the WHO recommendation. If you go directly to the WHO article, the information regarding the use of masks makes more sense.

The WHO article states that the use of masks can prevent the spread of droplets, and may be beneficial as a preventative measures, but that masks alone will not protect an individual from contacting Covid. Hand hygiene and physical distancing is also required.

Advice on the use of masks in the community, during home care and in healthcare settings in the context of the novel coronavirus (COVID-19) outbreak

https://apps.who.int/iris/rest/bitstreams/1274280/retrieve

 

[musicaljoke]

I doubt the WHO will miss Trump and his paltry annual dues of $122 million. They might miss Bill Gates though. He gave $250 billion.

I don't believe this is about the money, because as you say, the amount of money contributed by the US isn't very much and can easily be made up by the member countries.

I believe the US withdrawal is fundamentally due to the opposing goals of the WHO, which is working to eradicate Covid, and the US government, which has accepted the ongoing toll on human life as the cost of running business. That's what makes the US exit from the WHO such a crime against humanity. The world will not be able to eradicate the virus if the US is not willing to support the need to do so.

In the eyes of the rest of the world, the US withdrawal from the WHO appears to be a veiled attempt to divert blame for the US leadership's very obvious failure in the fight against Covid.

 

[HongKongPhooey]

The mystery of 'silent spreaders'

Interesting article about "super spreaders" without symptoms. Singapore's contact tracking in the church was amazing, but frightening to know someone caught it from a chair hours later.

 

[Mo Thuairim]

Could nearly half of those with Covid-19 have no idea they are infected?
As studies confirm many infected people show no symptoms, contact tracing and face masks assume even greater importance

When Noopur Raje’s husband fell critically ill with Covid-19 in mid-March, she did not suspect that she too was infected with the virus.

Raje, an oncologist at Massachusetts General Hospital in Boston, had been caring for her sick husband for a week before driving him to an emergency centre with a persistently high fever. But after she herself had a diagnostic PCR test – which looks for traces of the Sars-CoV-2 virus DNA in saliva – she was astounded to find that the result was positive.

“My husband ended up very sick,” she says. “He was in intensive care for a day, and in hospital for 10 days. But while I was also infected, I had no symptoms at all. I have no idea why we responded so differently.”

It took two months for Raje’s husband to recover. Repeated tests, done every five days, showed that Raje remained infected for the same length of time, all while remaining completely asymptomatic. In some ways it is unsurprising that the virus persisted in her body for so long, given that it appears her body did not even mount a detectable immune response against the infection.

When they both took an antibody test earlier this month, Raje’s husband showed a high level of antibodies to the virus, while Raje appeared to have no response at all, something she found hard to comprehend.

“It’s mind-blowing,” she says. “Some people are able to be colonised with the virus and not be symptomatic, while others end up with pretty severe illness. I think it’s something to do with differences in immune regulation, but we still haven’t figured out exactly how this is happening.”

Epidemiological studies are now revealing that the number of individuals who carry and can pass on the infection, yet remain completely asymptomatic, is larger than originally thought. Scientists believe these people have contributed to the spread of the virus in care homes, and they are central in the debate regarding face mask policies, as health officials attempt to avoid new waves of infections while societies reopen.

(...)

From the microbe’s perspective, this makes perfect evolutionary sense. “For any virus or bacteria, making people infectious but not ill is an excellent way to spread and persist in populations,” says Rein Houben, an infectious diseases researcher at the London School of Hygiene and Tropical medicine.

(...)

“Almost all evidence seems to point to a proportion of asymptomatic infections of around 40%, with a wide range,” says Houben. “The proportion is also highly variable with age. Nearly all infected children seem to remain asymptomatic, whereas the reverse seems to hold for the elderly.”

Houben points out that, because most asymptomatic people have no idea they are infected, they are unlikely to be self-isolating, and studies have shown this has contributed to the rampant spread of the virus in facilities such as homeless shelters and care homes. He says this means there is a need for regular diagnostic testing of almost all people in such closed environments, including prisons and psychiatric facilities.

(...)

For Raje, understanding why asymptomatic patients like her respond the way they do to the virus, will have some critical implications for all of us over the coming months, for example in determining whether vaccines turn out to be effective.

“The big question I have after my experience, is whether a vaccine will really work in all people,” she says. “The vaccination approach is to create an immune response, which then protects you. But if asymptomatic people are not producing a normal antibody response to the virus, what does that mean? Because it’s these people who are the vectors and the carriers of this virus, I think we can’t get away from social distancing until we have some of these answers out there.”

(More at link)

Could nearly half of those with Covid-19 have no idea they are infected?

 

[jjenny]

This should say wear a mask if you cough or sneeze. That would cover the bases. One cough or sneeze can spread a lot of virus.

Just breathing, talking or singing can spread it. Considering large number of people remain asymptomatic, and the ones who get sick start spreading the infection several days prior to getting symptoms, wearing a mask only after starting to show symptoms doesn't make sense.

 

[jjenny]

It should say "wear a mask or cloth face covering in public." So weird how this has become controversial.

At the same time, apparently a virus with less than 1% death rate over all age groups doesn't really need a lot of control? I just wish we had published plans and guidelines. We spend so many resources on diseases that affect far fewer.

People often don't realize they're going to sneeze or cough until they already do - and people can have both CoVid (asymptomatic) as well as asthma or allergies (coughing, sneezing).

Still, it probably behooves us over 55 people to just wear masks in public all the time. Why not?

The type of masks most people are wearing only work if at least 80% of population are wearing them. Cloth and surgical masks mostly protect other people from the wearer. So everybody needs to wear them for them to be effective, not just a certain group.

 

[dixiegirl1035]

The mystery of 'silent spreaders'

Interesting article about "super spreaders" without symptoms. Singapore's contact tracking in the church was amazing, but frightening to know someone caught it from a chair hours later.

Could nearly half of those with Covid-19 have no idea they are infected?
As studies confirm many infected people show no symptoms, contact tracing and face masks assume even greater importance

When Noopur Raje’s husband fell critically ill with Covid-19 in mid-March, she did not suspect that she too was infected with the virus.

Raje, an oncologist at Massachusetts General Hospital in Boston, had been caring for her sick husband for a week before driving him to an emergency centre with a persistently high fever. But after she herself had a diagnostic PCR test – which looks for traces of the Sars-CoV-2 virus DNA in saliva – she was astounded to find that the result was positive.

“My husband ended up very sick,” she says. “He was in intensive care for a day, and in hospital for 10 days. But while I was also infected, I had no symptoms at all. I have no idea why we responded so differently.”

It took two months for Raje’s husband to recover. Repeated tests, done every five days, showed that Raje remained infected for the same length of time, all while remaining completely asymptomatic. In some ways it is unsurprising that the virus persisted in her body for so long, given that it appears her body did not even mount a detectable immune response against the infection.

When they both took an antibody test earlier this month, Raje’s husband showed a high level of antibodies to the virus, while Raje appeared to have no response at all, something she found hard to comprehend.

“It’s mind-blowing,” she says. “Some people are able to be colonised with the virus and not be symptomatic, while others end up with pretty severe illness. I think it’s something to do with differences in immune regulation, but we still haven’t figured out exactly how this is happening.”

Epidemiological studies are now revealing that the number of individuals who carry and can pass on the infection, yet remain completely asymptomatic, is larger than originally thought. Scientists believe these people have contributed to the spread of the virus in care homes, and they are central in the debate regarding face mask policies, as health officials attempt to avoid new waves of infections while societies reopen.

(...)

From the microbe’s perspective, this makes perfect evolutionary sense. “For any virus or bacteria, making people infectious but not ill is an excellent way to spread and persist in populations,” says Rein Houben, an infectious diseases researcher at the London School of Hygiene and Tropical medicine.

(...)

“Almost all evidence seems to point to a proportion of asymptomatic infections of around 40%, with a wide range,” says Houben. “The proportion is also highly variable with age. Nearly all infected children seem to remain asymptomatic, whereas the reverse seems to hold for the elderly.”

Houben points out that, because most asymptomatic people have no idea they are infected, they are unlikely to be self-isolating, and studies have shown this has contributed to the rampant spread of the virus in facilities such as homeless shelters and care homes. He says this means there is a need for regular diagnostic testing of almost all people in such closed environments, including prisons and psychiatric facilities.

(...)

For Raje, understanding why asymptomatic patients like her respond the way they do to the virus, will have some critical implications for all of us over the coming months, for example in determining whether vaccines turn out to be effective.

“The big question I have after my experience, is whether a vaccine will really work in all people,” she says. “The vaccination approach is to create an immune response, which then protects you. But if asymptomatic people are not producing a normal antibody response to the virus, what does that mean? Because it’s these people who are the vectors and the carriers of this virus, I think we can’t get away from social distancing until we have some of these answers out there.”

(More at link)

Could nearly half of those with Covid-19 have no idea they are infected?

And timely update from Dr. Campbell re bad science continually being spouted by media so they are first to press on it.

In this, he talks about the "levels of scientific evidence" (of which most of the info out there is the bottom most level or not even good enough to get on the scale!) Not only journalists, but scientists are doing "click bait" and he discusses such and reasons why.

I = Meta analyses or RCT with clear cut results
II = Small RCT with unclear results
III = Cohort or case control study
IV = Historical cohort of case-control studies
V = Case series studies with no controls

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In this one, he talks about the "science research" shows that depending on who you listen to, asymptomatics are 5%-80%...

It takes effort to skip the media reports, and train to go to the original paper to evaluate what level of scientific evidence (credibility) should it be given, and if peer reviewed or just put out on a pre-print site which now exists during this pandemic so they can say their efforts were cited and get a "feather in their academic hat"

MOO

ETA: And then you have company after company doing press releases all over the place speaking to they have the cure! Pfffft.

There aren't many that can read and understand in the general public the science, and do critical thinking. Most media and others don't even make a veiled attempt to cite the original scientific paper....either because there isn't one and it's just quoting an opinion... or the just aren't true scientists.. they are journalists who are depending on those with an agenda.

MOO

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[tresir2012]

I don't believe this is about the money, because as you say, the amount of money contributed by the US isn't very much and can easily be made up by the member countries.

I believe the US withdrawal is fundamentally due to the opposing goals of the WHO, which is working to eradicate Covid, and the US government, which has accepted the ongoing toll on human life as the cost of running business. That's what makes the US exit from the WHO such a crime against humanity. The world will not be able to eradicate the virus if the US is not willing to support the need to do so.

In the eyes of the rest of the world, the US withdrawal from the WHO appears to be a veiled attempt to divert blame for the US leadership's very obvious failure in the fight against Covid.

US is/was the number 1 contributor to WHO.

 

[tresir2012]

The type of masks most people are wearing only work if at least 80% of population are wearing them. Cloth and surgical masks mostly protect other people from the wearer. So everybody needs to wear them for them to be effective, not just a certain group.

In pictures: The face masks Hong Kong wants to ban

How weird is this article. Hong Kong banned face masks but people want to wear them.

Hong Kong, population 7.5 million has only had 4 dead from 1,000 cases. 97% wear masks so they must be pretty effective IMO.

 

[Sundog]

In pictures: The face masks Hong Kong wants to ban

How weird is this article. Hong Kong banned face masks but people want to wear them.

Hong Kong, population 7.5 million has only had 4 dead from 1,000 cases. 97% wear masks so they must be pretty effective IMO.

This article is from October 2019, regarding the government trying to ban face masks during pro-democracy demonstrations in Hong Kong. The Chinese government uses facial recognition technology to identify protesters, and there are other reasons mentioned in the article as to why the Chinese government wanted to ban face masks during these demonstrations. It is unrelated to COVID.

 

[dixiegirl1035]

In pictures: The face masks Hong Kong wants to ban How weird is this article. Hong Kong banned face masks but people want to wear them.

Hong Kong, population 7.5 million has only had 4 dead from 1,000 cases. 97% wear masks so they must be pretty effective IMO.

This is an article from October 4th, 2019 which was covering the ban when it was before the outbreak and that folks destroying property (like now in US setting fires etc. ) were wearing them during protests and anarchy on the streets so as not to be identified.

Therefore, I deem this OP comment irrelevant MOO to discussion at hand, other than folks that want to do illegal activities are doing such to get away so they aren't identified at this time in the U.S.

MOO

ETA for folks that might not be able to view OP comment due to settings, it was based on this article with a comment by OP of "How weird is this article. Hong Kong banned face masks but people want to wear them." with a link to an article about uprisings in Hong Kong in 2019 at In pictures: The face masks Hong Kong wants to ban

ETA #2 - Update in April of this year - "The judgment, delivered on Thursday afternoon, said Hong Kong’s chief executive could use colonial-era laws to make emergency decrees for public safety and that banning masks was constitutional at unlawful gatherings." (e.d. during a curfew where folks are destroying property vs. peaceful demonstrations in the U.S. may be similar - so they can identify perps who are creating anarchy) Hong Kong face masks ban largely upheld despite coronavirus

 

[margarita25]

Checking in from NE TN, almost at the Virginia state line. I ventured out today, with my mask (YAY for me!), huge sunglasses and armed with plenty of hand sanitizer and wipes (even ones I had put in a snack size baggie for cart handles). It has been 3 months since I've done anything other than curbside pickup. First stop was Big Lots, a discount store, to load up on more planters, potting soil and garden items. Maybe 1/2 in there were wearing masks. The check out lady had on a mask but had it down under her nose. Once I got to the car and got everything loaded I stood outside the car after opening the door and used about 3-4 wipes to wipe everything I thought could have touched any germs. Then I used hand sanitizer after that. Next stop was another discount store, Ollie's, to try to find more garden items I couldn't find at first store. Again - maybe 1/3 - 1/2 of shoppers had masks on. I would step back and let the non masked shoppers pass in a wide berth before I continued. I left there empty handed. This store was across the state line in Virginia where a mandate had been issued that anyone in any enclosed space (stores included) need to wear a mask as of yesterday. Obviously, alot of folks don't listen or follow advice. From there, I drove another 5-10 minutes to a Lowe's (again in Virginia) where I proceeded to find a few more garden items. Yet again, maybe 1/2 were masked. Same routine after each store, I'd use wipes and then hand sanitizer. I had quite a bag of discarded items when I finally made it home.
The mask wearers I would smile and nod to, behind my mask and big sun glasses. The non masked I'd glare at and think - how nasty you are! I did make it home with a trunk and car loaded down with planters, more potting soil, plant supports, hose connectors and spilters and various other garden gadgets.
I felt so defeated once I got home, and so dirty. Then I realized my first real venture out into stores in 3 months was to discount stores and Lowes. I had to admit, my standards have lowered - I should have broken isolation for something a little more exciting than dirty discount stores! It was very disheartening to see all those out shopping as if they didn't have a care in the world. I can't make others do what is right - but that won't stop me.
Alot of the discussion on the recent posts has been in reference to contradicting advice on mask wearing. "WE" know masks are beneficial, it's just common sense. After today, I'll stay home again for awhile to watch the numbers and see how my area is doing. We have been very fortunate up to now, to have low numbers. It's here, but not rampant. I can't think of a thing I need that I can't order online or for curbside pickup.
Life is precious, I just can't imagine viewing it any other way. This will pass, but I can't be careless. I may get the virus, but if I do, I don't think it will be for having been neglectful or careless. I have a friend that has visited and we visit outside on the open front porch, maintaining distance. We exchange things with each other that we each have gotten and share with the other for harder to find items. I visit with my neighbors over the fence. But I do believe it will be awhile before I venture into another store.
One of my daughters and grandchildren and I are planning on meeting one day soon if we can catch a good weather day on a weekend for a picnic, about 1/2 way between us. We will remain outdoors and keep our distance as much as possible. I don't want to wait too long as I wouldn't be surprised to see our numbers start to slowly rise, if today is any example of how careless folks are being.
Stay safe everyone - we can't convince others to be careful, not for themselves or us. So we just need to be patient a little longer and see what unfolds. This will pass, I'm just not certain as to when. But I want to come out on the other side to watch all the grandkids grow up, I want to see my girls reach the age where they are at peace and being less overwhelmed by raising a family and all the worries that Moma's everywhere have for their children. I have so much waiting on the other side of this pandemic, I can be patient awhile longer.

Good for you SAMS.

I have no business out there in “society” right now. You are stronger than I am. Selfish people walking around without a mask in public. I have a very hard time in my life sitting on my hands and I don’t trust myself to just “glare” at them. I’d have to give them a piece of my mind and it wouldn’t go over well.

So I’ll just stay at home.

 

[KALI]

It will be interesting to see what happens with spike in COVID-19 cases in cities that rioted over the last three days. I hope our hospitals do not become over run.
These were younger people for the most part. However, who knows how many already have underlying health problems?

 

[KALI]

FYI. I went to a CVS pharmacy store in So. California Friday. I asked the checker if they happened to now have hand sanitizer. They DID ! Lots of it, all at reasonable prices. I bought two 15 ounce ones.
So, if you're in need, check them out.

 

[Sundog]

This is an article from October 4th, 2019 which was covering the ban when it was before the outbreak and that folks destroying property (like now in US setting fires etc. ) were wearing them during protests and anarchy on the streets so as not to be identified.

Therefore, I deem this OP comment irrelevant MOO to discussion at hand, other than folks that want to do illegal activities are doing such to get away so they aren't identified at this time in the U.S.

MOO

ETA for folks that might not be able to view OP comment due to settings, it was based on this article with a comment by OP of "How weird is this article. Hong Kong banned face masks but people want to wear them." with a link to an article about uprisings in Hong Kong in 2019 at In pictures: The face masks Hong Kong wants to ban

ETA #2 - Update in April of this year - "The judgment, delivered on Thursday afternoon, said Hong Kong’s chief executive could use colonial-era laws to make emergency decrees for public safety and that banning masks was constitutional at unlawful gatherings." (e.d. during a curfew where folks are destroying property vs. peaceful demonstrations in the U.S. may be similar - so they can identify perps who are creating anarchy) Hong Kong face masks ban largely upheld despite coronavirus

Pro-democracy demonstrations in Hong Kong can not be compared to anarchists protesting in the U.S. JMO.

 

[tresir2012]

More info on masks and why they are accepted more in some countries than others. Also discusses that some 50% of COVID cases could be synmptomless but still infectious.

Why some countries wear face masks and others don't

"Why some people embrace masks while others shun them is not just about government directives and medical advice - it's also about culture and history, a debate over evidence, and even about personal liberties.

The official word on face masks
Since the start of the coronavirus outbreak, the official advice from the World Health Organization has been that only two types of people should wear masks: those who are sick and show symptoms, and those who are caring for people who are suspected to have the coronavirus.

Nobody else needs to wear a mask, and experts have given several reasons for that.

One is that a mask is not seen as reliable protection as other methods, given that current research shows the virus is spread by droplets and contact with contaminated surfaces. So it could protect you, but only in certain situations such as when you're in close quarters with others where someone infected might sneeze or cough near your face. This is why experts say frequent hand washing with soap and water is far more effective."

"In Hong Kong, some tabloids have splashed pictures on their covers of Westerners not wearing masks and congregating in groups in the city's nightlife district, and criticised expatriates and tourists for not taking enough precautions.

But the discrimination works both ways.

Image Copyright @xinyanyu@XINYANYU
Report
In places where mask wearing is still not the norm despite government advisories, those who do wear masks have been shunned or even attacked. It hasn't helped that many of these mask wearers are Asians.

In the US, it's become an issue of personal freedoms, with some arguing that making everyone wear face masks infringes on civil liberties. The city of Stillwater in Oklahoma was forced to soften a mask law to an advisory after threats of violence, while a Michigan security guard was killed after he barred a shopper who didn't have a mask from entering a store.

But those societies that do advocate everyone wearing a mask may have a point and increasingly, experts are now questioning the official WHO advice."

"On the Diamond Princess, the cruise ship that docked in Yokohama, about half of the more than 600 positive cases found onboard were found to have no symptoms. A similar proportion of asymptomatic cases has been reported in Iceland.

The prevailing belief has been that because these people do not exhibit symptoms, they are not very contagious. But some are questioning this now.

A recently published study of cases in China found that "undocumented cases of infection", or those with either mild or no symptoms, were significantly contagious and could have been responsible for nearly 80% of positive virus cases.

Meanwhile a Hong Kong study estimates that up to 44% of virus transmission from an infected person can happen before that person starts showing any symptoms.

So does that mean if everyone wore a mask, these silent carriers wouldn't turn into spreaders?

The jury is still out on this issue, with various studies proving and disproving the effectiveness of a mask in stopping transmission of the coronavirus. This is why some places have so far held back from mask laws and advisories, such as New Zealand which successfully controlled its outbreak and is holding back on advising citizens to wear masks because of the lack of scientific consensus and clinical trials."

More at link.

 

[jjenny]

Again, insisting that only symptomatic people should wear masks makes no sense. A lot of those infected with covid are asymptomatic, and it starts spreading before people who will eventually get symptoms actually start showing these symptoms. And covid is most likely airborne. It doesn't only spread through droplets, it also spreads through aerosols (airborne). You can was your hands all day long, it's not going to help against airborne virus.

 

[tresir2012]

It will be interesting to see what happens with spike in COVID-19 cases in cities that rioted over the last three days. I hope our hospitals do not become over run.
These were younger people for the most part. However, who knows how many already have underlying health problems?

I think any good from the lockdown will be undone by this. I did list the cities where it was happening but it was deleted as off topic so if the cases and deaths do increase we will have to research back for the causes then. The cities are now too numerous to mention anyway. It is just annoying when shops and businesses have been closed and people have been law abiding in the lockdowns. Just when it is beginning to be safe to go out as well.