Coronavirus COVID-19 - Global Health Pandemic #62

[Tony1902]

Yes so many here have opened my eyes. Wide.

@Bravo darlin,
As Clifford Geertz, the late cultural anthropologist once said ‘...us - not us’

 

[Bravo]

I'm so sorry about your husband's heart attack but glad to hear he is doing well. I wish every hospitalized COVID-19 patient could have an advocate like your daughter. I can't imagine not being able to be with my husband if he were hospitalized--or, for that matter, DH not being able to be with me if I were.

Thank You. He was lucky as he got a warning, some don't. It was hard but we spoke on the phone a lot. A couple times I sat on a chair in parking lot with a sign and we talked on the phone. I could see him at the window.

 

[anneg]

Thank You. He was lucky as he got a warning, some don't. It was hard but we spoke on the phone a lot. A couple times I sat on a chair in parking lot with a sign and we talked on the phone. I could see him at the window.

 

[margarita25]

Which I don’t get because I see no lines, all I see is this disease and human lives. It’s interesting though, from the academic standpoint of political science analysis, how views clearly, based on factors which have nothing to do with the virus, vary based on certain allegiances. Again, that’s why responsible advisement and setting a positive example of leadership is so important - many people look to this “leader” for guidance, and sadly, base their actions on what he does.

I’ll bring this VERY important post forward.
Grabbing link

qmfr / ran out of time on post.

——

April 20 / BBM / source

Dr. Tedros: (49:43)
It’s life and that’s why we prefer to see the individuals, the faces, the people. They’re not numbers. They’re not averages. They are people, they’re individuals. And that’s why we don’t have secrets. And as soon as we get information, we pass it because we want to save lives, even if it’s one life. Even one life matters. One life. You can’t bring it back once it’s gone. And that’s why we have been urging countries, please, this virus is dangerous. This virus is public enemy number one. This virus is new and which has a behavior of serious contagion like flu. It’s very contagious like flu and at the same time, it’s very killer like SARS and MERS. It has a very dangerous combination and this is happening in hundred years, for the first time again. Like the 1918 flu that killed up to 100 million people, but now we have technology. We can prevent that disaster. We can prevent that kind of crisis. We can prevent it. We’re not in the same situation. We should not be afraid. We should have the confidence that we’re in a different situation and fight it back.

If there is national unity and if there is global solidarity, if we take this as a common enemy for humanity and give our best, of course understanding that this is a new virus and dangerous virus, we can win the fight. We can but please let’s consider those who are dying as individuals. They’re not numbers or figures. Even one life is precious. You know where I come from. I know war. I know poverty. I know disease. I know how people suffer in war conditions. I know how people are killed because of poverty. I know how people who could have been saved are dying because of this. I know a tragedy. I know.

That’s why I see people. I see faces. I see the mother or father of somebody. I see the daughters and sons of somebody. I see the tragedy that can behold a family. I see that. I see and I know. I’m telling you from a firsthand experience, I know how losing a brother means from childhood. I can tell you all the tragedies I have seen. That’s why in my last prayer I said, let’s not play with fire. This is a tragedy which is already affecting many families. Many are losing their loved ones, so we don’t hide information because I know what poverty means. I know what war means. I know what killer disease means.

I know what is behind all these problems and I have been warning, we have been warning from day one. This is a devil that everybody should fight. Then the solution we’re proposing, we need national unity, strong national unity. Everybody fighting this virus, taking care of their citizens, taking care of real people. We need global solidarity that’s cemented on genuine national unity. Without the two, without national unity and global solidarity, trust us, the worst is yet ahead of us. Let’s prevent this tragedy. It’s a virus that many people still don’t understand. Many countries are very developed, putting the wrong conclusions because they didn’t know it and got into trouble and we warned even developed countries saying, “This virus will even surprise developed countries.” It did. We said that. It will surprise even with the nations. We said it. It is on record. Let’s stop additional sacrifices. Let’s stop tragedy. Hundreds of thousands now dying is serious. Even one life is precious. Let’s say, “Enough is enough.”

[...]

“I know disease that could be prevented that killed people and I know how the family feels. When we think about death or disease, I was saying` let’s bring into account that these are real people and that’s what we’re losing. Real people who could be saved, but who might be dying because of our own weaknesses, weaknesses of our society. And I mentioned one or two and I said it many times, I will repeat again. This virus is dangerous. It exploits cracks between us. When we have differences there are cracks. The virus exploits those cracks. Take as an example, ideology or in one country, it could be the differences along party lines. It exploits that. That’s why I said we need national unity and whoever has whatever ideology, whether that person is from left or right or center, they should work together to fight this virus, to save these real people.

If we don’t do that, this virus will stay longer with us to kill more people and we will lose more precious lives. So when I think about the losses of life, it reminds me of my own experience. These are real people dying and I’m just warning people who may think that these are numbers. They’re not numbers. These are people. And the other point is when there is national unity, the global solidarity could also work. I have spoken to many leaders from many countries, from the incumbent or the opposition and one message to all of them, please work together. Don’t use this virus as an opportunity to fight against each other or score political punch. It’s dangerous. It’s like playing with fire. Please work together. We need national unity. We are seeing the tragedy and we need global solidarity that’s based on honest and genuine national unity. I will say it again and again because it’s true.

It’s the political problem that may fuel further this pandemic. People say, “This is political and Tedros you’re a technical [inaudible 00:01:04:03], don’t say it.” But if it’s fueling the pandemic and that’s the very reason, why wouldn’t I say it? At the end of the day, we should know the root cause of the problem and try to address that. It’s fueling it. The cracks between people, between parties is fueling it and it’s true and that’s the reason. And you said, “Being emotional, what made me emotional?” Because I know this, I know war, I know poverty. I know how people really are influenced by all this.”

 

[SoCalDavidS]

I had nothing but concern about the protests as related to COVID and have infinite posts to prove it.

So I’m getting TIREd of people using this “but the protestors” analogy...what else you got? Because that argument doesn’t apply to me.

What does that have to do with the rising numbers and Phoenix and Tulsa and this virus GOInG FORWARd??

What does it have to do with the fact that he has a responsibility as a leader of the United States? Last I checked, BLM wasn’t sworn in to protect the citizens of the USA.

I agree. I admit I was on the side of the protesters. It was a perfect storm. The timing was impeccable for the video and outrage that resulted. And it was Nationwide, in many cities.

In terms of the virus, it was Completely Irresponsible. The minimizing factors were that they were all outdoors, and some wore masks. Severely offsetting factors were the Shouting, tear gas, and unbelievable lack of social distancing.

I believe we are starting to get through the Memorial Day impact, and the proliferation of re-openings in late May. To that, we will begin to mix the protests from early June. If I had to guess, that will be over the next couple of weeks. Very shortly thereafter, will be the impact from the wider and later stages of opening throughout the country, that have been occurring the last 1-2 weeks.

And I'd like to add that I still can't believe that Spontaneous nationwide protests, are being used as a justification for Voluntarily holding political rallies. Rallies which will be Indoors, not out. And rallies where maybe 10% of the attendees will wear masks, because they are following someone's lead. Or should I say Leash?

 

[Tippy Lynn]

No, but it’s against CDC Guidance and the recommendations and advice of medical professionals and experts around the world. And anyone else who has half a brain.

Not everyone cares about these rallies, we care about our lives and minimizing the effects of this virus. We ALL want to get back to our lives and businesses.

And it SHOULD be against the LAW imo: CONSCIOUSLY ENDANGERING PUBLIC SAFETY AND PEOPLE’s LIVES.

Furthermore, and which is the saddest and scariest of all, is endangering the people you are sworn to lead and protect.

Same for the protests IMO.

 

[tabitha111]

I thought the borders were closed to all non-essential travel (although that hasn't stopped some pretending they're going to Alaska through Canada). Is she American and only in TO temporarily?

Yes she is an American who went to University in Canada and presently plays for the Toronto Symphony Orchestra. Maybe that is why she is allowed to travel? Because yes she is a US citizen, although I never see her leaving Canada permanently to be honest.

 

[MrX]

Okay, I'm going to say something that is certainly controversial and it's only an hypothesis. I too am struggling to understand the minds of these people.

I think they actually really don't care is that...consciously or unconsciously, they think *only older people will die.* There's a lot of pent-up resentment among younger people about older people "staying too long in the workplace" or "selling their home in the city and driving up prices in the suburbs or countryside." There are a thousand similar statements that one can easily find on forums for younger people. "They are about to die anyway." "I don't want to live past 60/50/50 if you ask me." "Life must be lived right now! When you're old, there's nothing to do." "Old people voted for Trump/Brexit/etc, I hate them." "Boomers are responsible for the entire planetary situation." And even worse.

So. There's an element of inter-generational conflict (dare I call it warfare??)

Maybe I'm too out there with this theory, but I do hang out with young people (and on other forums where they hang out).

If you change the premise on which they rest their logic to "We think there are too many old people" then their behavior is logical. They also may think we're silly for clinging to life by staying home. Even if that's not a conscious thought, working backward from their behavior, that premise makes them rational again. But not compassionate and, well, people disagree on how to construct moral and ethical behavior.

There's a lot they don't realize yet, sadly.

It seems like many of you, like me, are struggling to understand the other side's logic. One of the things I hear, quite often, out in public, is that none of us are forcing you to leave your homes and interact with the world in person. I constantly hear "if people are afraid, or feel the need to stay home, that's fine." On the flip side we see our assessment of the risks as being discounted as everything from delusional to kool-aide to insane to evil and the only answer is to take away our lives through an enforced lock down.

As I proposed to a co-worker who is a medical doctor, big lock down supporter and self-proclaimed homebody and people hater: "what if the way to combat the virus involved spending months in an airplane hangar, living on a cot, surrounded by all of the neighbors that you despise? How soon until you started quoting my math about the relative risks of the virus?" He said thinking about it made him laugh, but he didn't have an answer. It's too easy to stake out the moral high ground for folks that have no skin in the game.

 

[anneg]

qmfr / ran out of time on post.

——

April 20 / BBM / source

Dr. Tedros: (49:43)
It’s life and that’s why we prefer to see the individuals, the faces, the people. They’re not numbers. They’re not averages. They are people, they’re individuals. And that’s why we don’t have secrets. And as soon as we get information, we pass it because we want to save lives, even if it’s one life. Even one life matters. One life. You can’t bring it back once it’s gone. And that’s why we have been urging countries, please, this virus is dangerous. This virus is public enemy number one. This virus is new and which has a behavior of serious contagion like flu. It’s very contagious like flu and at the same time, it’s very killer like SARS and MERS. It has a very dangerous combination and this is happening in hundred years, for the first time again. Like the 1918 flu that killed up to 100 million people, but now we have technology. We can prevent that disaster. We can prevent that kind of crisis. We can prevent it. We’re not in the same situation. We should not be afraid. We should have the confidence that we’re in a different situation and fight it back.

If there is national unity and if there is global solidarity, if we take this as a common enemy for humanity and give our best, of course understanding that this is a new virus and dangerous virus, we can win the fight. We can but please let’s consider those who are dying as individuals. They’re not numbers or figures. Even one life is precious. You know where I come from. I know war. I know poverty. I know disease. I know how people suffer in war conditions. I know how people are killed because of poverty. I know how people who could have been saved are dying because of this. I know a tragedy. I know.

That’s why I see people. I see faces. I see the mother or father of somebody. I see the daughters and sons of somebody. I see the tragedy that can behold a family. I see that. I see and I know. I’m telling you from a firsthand experience, I know how losing a brother means from childhood. I can tell you all the tragedies I have seen. That’s why in my last prayer I said, let’s not play with fire. This is a tragedy which is already affecting many families. Many are losing their loved ones, so we don’t hide information because I know what poverty means. I know what war means. I know what killer disease means.

I know what is behind all these problems and I have been warning, we have been warning from day one. This is a devil that everybody should fight. Then the solution we’re proposing, we need national unity, strong national unity. Everybody fighting this virus, taking care of their citizens, taking care of real people. We need global solidarity that’s cemented on genuine national unity. Without the two, without national unity and global solidarity, trust us, the worst is yet ahead of us. Let’s prevent this tragedy. It’s a virus that many people still don’t understand. Many countries are very developed, putting the wrong conclusions because they didn’t know it and got into trouble and we warned even developed countries saying, “This virus will even surprise developed countries.” It did. We said that. It will surprise even with the nations. We said it. It is on record. Let’s stop additional sacrifices. Let’s stop tragedy. Hundreds of thousands now dying is serious. Even one life is precious. Let’s say, “Enough is enough.”

[...]

“I know disease that could be prevented that killed people and I know how the family feels. When we think about death or disease, I was saying` let’s bring into account that these are real people and that’s what we’re losing. Real people who could be saved, but who might be dying because of our own weaknesses, weaknesses of our society. And I mentioned one or two and I said it many times, I will repeat again. This virus is dangerous. It exploits cracks between us. When we have differences there are cracks. The virus exploits those cracks. Take as an example, ideology or in one country, it could be the differences along party lines. It exploits that. That’s why I said we need national unity and whoever has whatever ideology, whether that person is from left or right or center, they should work together to fight this virus, to save these real people.

If we don’t do that, this virus will stay longer with us to kill more people and we will lose more precious lives. So when I think about the losses of life, it reminds me of my own experience. These are real people dying and I’m just warning people who may think that these are numbers. They’re not numbers. These are people. And the other point is when there is national unity, the global solidarity could also work. I have spoken to many leaders from many countries, from the incumbent or the opposition and one message to all of them, please work together. Don’t use this virus as an opportunity to fight against each other or score political punch. It’s dangerous. It’s like playing with fire. Please work together. We need national unity. We are seeing the tragedy and we need global solidarity that’s based on honest and genuine national unity. I will say it again and again because it’s true.

It’s the political problem that may fuel further this pandemic. People say, “This is political and Tedros you’re a technical [inaudible 00:01:04:03], don’t say it.” But if it’s fueling the pandemic and that’s the very reason, why wouldn’t I say it? At the end of the day, we should know the root cause of the problem and try to address that. It’s fueling it. The cracks between people, between parties is fueling it and it’s true and that’s the reason. And you said, “Being emotional, what made me emotional?” Because I know this, I know war, I know poverty. I know how people really are influenced by all this.”

I read this post carefully, agreeing with all he said, and at the end, I went back to the beginning and saw it was from April 20! IMO, Dr. T's words are more important than ever.

 

[Lilibet]

And I'd like to add that I still can't believe that Spontaneous nationwide protests, are being used as a justification for Voluntarily holding political rallies. Rallies which will be Indoors, not out. And rallies where maybe 10% of the attendees will wear masks, because they are following someone's lead.

Yes, I posted about this “but the protestors” justification earlier and I agree. It’s about the responsibility of the leaders of any country to set an example in line with their scientific/public health advisors so that the citizens are more likely to comply and stay as safe as possible. How about an outdoor rally with masks required (except for those excepted) and seats blocked off to maintain social distancing. No one would be criticizing a responsibly run rally.

 

[ilovewings]

And why should the country and the world have to pay the valuable, valuable price for one man making gravely dangerous and irrational decisions? This is so unfair. It shouldn’t be allowed, jmo. No indoor mass gatherings like this should be allowed right now, doesn’t matter if it’s a protest or rally for democrats, religious gathering, or the Queen of Sheba, moo.
The sooner and better we can minimize the impact, both on human lives AND our economy, the better.

Responsibly opening businesses and opening via the recommended planned phases, based on declining numbers and trends, is different. That is vital to someone’s daily bread. All of our bread.

Remember how angry all of us were about the Louisiana pastor? People here were calling for his arrest.

And how about crushing our hope....

The ramifications and effects of all this are all too serious to ignore. And not everybody is taking this lying down, and rightfully so.

I’ve been wishing to address Doc T and Dr. Mike in a PC to ask them, what would you tell the citizens who’s leader is knowingly and consciously comprising the fight and safety of his own citizens—-what do we do? How can we have hope? Help us, not everyone here is wanting to give up the fight and is a part of this irresponsibility and madness....

totally agree with everything you said-- we are so helpless

 

[10ofRods]

When Canadians return home, they must self-isolate for 14 days — as per federal rules.

That's what I was thinking. When others seemed not to know that, I really had to do a double take. Thank you for weighing in there.

Canadians can fly to the US to visit Canada, but when they go back they face self-isolation rules (and I don't know the system in Canada, nor do I think any nation has spelled out precisely how they're handling the day-to-day part of it).

Many places are making new visitors pay for their own self-isolation and show a 14 day hotel reservation within a certain range of the airport/point of entry. Others allow exceptions for incoming citizens to self-quarantine at home (but if they have to drive a distance or stop for gas...that's a huge hole in the safety net and many places will work to close that, cf. Australia and New Zealand and China and...)

I wish California could/would do that. Alas, it's probably too late for us - and we'd have to quarantine people coming from different counties - which, btw, I can certainly see a coalition of Silicon Valley counties doing.

1-5% of Californians have had CoVid. That's a lot of people still to go, with everyone getting older every year and hospitals reshaped into the indefinite future to be infectious-disease ready. ::SMH::again.

 

[10ofRods]

I just wanted to add that in addition to @10ofRods, many others on this thread make valuable contributions. And I appreciate you all very much!

That's so nice of you. You have no idea how much I appreciate you and this forum. Much needed kind of discussion with so much thoughtfulness.

 

[10ofRods]

@Bravo darlin,
As Clifford Geertz, the late cultural anthropologist once said ‘...us - not us’

He said a lot of other things too. And one of them was "a wink is not the same wink everywhere."

 

[tresir2012]

Dupe.

 

[jjenny]

This is such a good read. Wow. Best first person article on CoVid (by a nurse, which gives added perspective) and how it hit a whole family.

No one dies, it's not tragic - but it does illustrate just how difficult this disease is (and how mixed up the healthcare system is, in dealing with CoVid).

That's a fascinating read. The only thing I want to point out, sterile technique isn't necessarily going to protect one against covid. Seems everybody is now in agreement it's mostly transmitted through the air (respiratory). So what one needs is better respiratory protection. Her husband wore a mask when he presumably caught it, but from the photos looks like they were wearing homemade masks. And it's jut not enough. Also, eyes need to be protected by glasses or goggles.

 

[ilovewings]

It Took One Person, And One Errand, To Infect My Entire Family With COVID-19

Family With COVID-19

It Took One Person, And One Errand, To Infect My Entire Family With COVID-19

Family With COVID-19

oonn

I read her story with great interest. First i question if her husband really got the virus at Home Depot: he had a mask on and had hand sanitizer so what happened? did someone sneeze in his face and the droplets got thru the mask or did someone cough on him or did he touch a surface and then touch his face: i am interested in the mechanism of transmission but she never goes into that issue. The other issue is all of the docs that were wrong or had different opinions of the diagnosis of her husband. It is scary because at the end of the day, this virus masquerades in so many ways that physicians seem to be just guessing half the time.

 

[jjenny]

Homemade masks don't really protect one against covid (as we have been told again and again). They mostly protect others from you. You are only getting protected if everybody else is wearing them. If they are not, homemade masks won't really filter out all covid. Eyes also need to be protected, as it can get in through the eyes. If you are in a crowd and other people are not all wearing masks, you need N95 respirator.

 

[ilovewings]

That's so nice of you. You have no idea how much I appreciate you and this forum. Much needed kind of discussion with so much thoughtfulness.

this forum for me is a life saver- caring, thoughtful, intelligent people
to share ideas with-- i thank you all for being here--

 

[jjenny]

With masks, fit is also very important. Even if you have a good homemade mask (multiple layers, different materials, filter), it's unlikely this mask seals your face like a properly fitted N95 respirator does. And if doesn't seal your face well, covid still can get in through the sides, as the air you are breathing is not all getting filtered.