Coronavirus COVID-19 - Global Health Pandemic #64

[dmac55]

“Of course our objective is to protect lives and to protect livelihoods, and when in doubt, we’re going to err on the side of protecting lives,” the governor said.

COVID-19 in Arizona: Ducey orders bars, theaters closed, delays school reopening
COVID-19 in Arizona: Ducey orders bars, theaters closed, delays school reopening

 

[BayouBelle_LA]

And when the mask mandates don't work, what's left - back to locking everyone up? For how long, this time? I never hear anyone openly and clearly advocating shutting everything down for however long it takes to eradicate the virus, but that seems to be exactly what many here want (once we eliminate the "wishes" like contact tracing),

I think what many want here is not typical of what most people want in the US, from my experience anyway. People are not fearful or in denial but optimistic about the future. Not everyone thinks you should wear a mask when you leave your house. Masks, in my opinion or for when you are in situations where you can’t social distance. MOO

 

[LadyL]

I thought this particular virus started with bats but anyway,
animals being used, tested on etc. is the common theme

*can't seem to quote any posts

 

[Deleted member 158085]

Woman in her 30s with no underlying condition died in Lexington.

Woman in her 30s with no underlying health conditions died from COVID-19, LFCHD says

 

[SouthAussie]

But how/why will next six months be different than the last four? It should be abundantly clear to everyone that when every one was forced to stay home, cases declined. Every place that people have been released, cases rise. Every single event is filled to capacity.

People in the US have demonstrated, time and again, in every state, that they are not going to voluntarily "distance." If we set aside the "why," because it doesn't matter, we are left with those basic facts. The only two choices we have ever had are uncontrolled spread and enforced confinement.

That's right. Do a big nothing or do a big something. Then accept the consequences of that.

Write a list ... Pros and Cons of both.

Decide if you want your business leaders to choose the path, or if you want your medical experts to decide the path, as they seem to be conflicting paths.

Make a decision. This Us vs Them way of approaching this is no way to go on. imo

 

[10ofRods]

Woman in her 30s with no underlying condition died in Lexington.

Woman in her 30s with no underlying health conditions died from COVID-19, LFCHD says

Another one of those truly "not like" posts. I was on the Memorial Thread today - she's not the only one.

Very, very sad.

 

[ZoriahNZ]

This virus didn't start in the United States, with mass production of animal agriculture. The accepted start was at a "raw" market in China, with numerous animal species.

I don't see the comparison at all.

Except that it's likely that the 1918 Spanish Influenza pandemic was an animal-to-man transmission which very likely originated in Haskell, Kansas USA. So the point is that such outbreaks could happen anywhere, and it seems that the most common animal-to-man transmissions are happening via raising, proximity to and/or consuming animals. (I'm not wading into the mass production side of things, for obvious reasons). JMO.

The site of origin of the 1918 influenza pandemic and its public health implications

 

[BayouBelle_LA]

That's right. Do a big nothing or do a big something. Then accept the consequences of that.

Write a list ... Pros and Cons of both.

Decide if you want your business leaders to choose the path, or if you want your medical experts to decide the path, as they seem to be conflicting paths.

Make a decision. This Us vs Them way of approaching this is no way to go on. imo

I’d rather weigh the facts and decide for myself, what my path will be.

 

[SouthAussie]

I’d rather weigh the facts and decide for myself, what my path will be.

Respectfully, therein lies the problem. imo

 

[Tate123]

But how/why will next six months be different than the last four? It should be abundantly clear to everyone that when every one was forced to stay home, cases declined. Every place that people have been released, cases rise. Every single event is filled to capacity.

People in the US have demonstrated, time and again, in every state, that they are not going to voluntarily "distance." If we set aside the "why," because it doesn't matter, we are left with those basic facts. The only two choices we have ever had are uncontrolled spread and enforced confinement.

We are heading towards uncontrolled spread. I'm in NYC and yes many things are closed but its not the end of the world, I deal with it and adapt. Do I miss the museums, theatre and restaurants ..of course. I suspect we will see an ebb and flow of restrictions. The numbers will rise and there will be a pull back and so on. A therapeutic will help and soon after a vaccine. Preservation of human life is paramount..this is difficult, but we will be ok.

 

[Deleted member 158085]

Rt COVID-19

Another thing IL is doing pretty well on.

Now if the folks on the Illinois/Iowa border don’t screw it up for us by traveling across the Mississippi too much.

 

[Deleted member 158085]

Anyone ever get the feeling that Mother Nature is fed up with us - and the way we treat her world - and is thinning the numbers?

This is what I expressed to my BF the first week of lockdown.

I do believe we brought this on ourselves. And reducing the numbers of humans is probably the only way to save the planet at this point.

 

[10ofRods]

I think what many want here is not typical of what most people want in the US, from my experience anyway. People are not fearful or in denial but optimistic about the future. Not everyone thinks you should wear a mask when you leave your house. Masks, in my opinion or for when you are in situations where you can’t social distance. MOO

So...the entire worklife of some people, who are being attacked and reviled for wearing them?

And those people are wearing them...because a lot of people think "social distancing" all by itself is enough?

So we go with "what people think" rather than what doctors or scientists say. Gotcha. I think an awful lot of professionals are going to disagree and that schools are going to be disrupted for a couple of years (especially high schools and universities).

But it's worth it, because every person should be allowed to decide the medical fate of those around them...until they get sick themselves, and then doctors are supposed to pivot and provide care to the risk-takers. Definitely gotcha.

It's going to be a strange new society. We have to wait and see how it goes. With a lower average death age than any other nation (that I know of), and SARS-Coronavirus-2 lingering in the United States (including Alaska, apparently)...our fate will be singular and exceptional, for sure.

 

[ilovewings]

I think what many want here is not typical of what most people want in the US, from my experience anyway. People are not fearful or in denial but optimistic about the future. Not everyone thinks you should wear a mask when you leave your house. Masks, in my opinion or for when you are in situations where you can’t social distance. MOO

I wear a mask whenever I go out- usually to a grocery store--- or to a physician's office-why wouldn't I? A mask is a barrier- it is such a simple concept i don't understand the resistance to it. As soon as I leave the store i take the mask off- i don't wear it in my car either. I also wear a mask when i go to the hair salon- the stylist also has a mask on.

 

[mickey2942]

Except that it's likely that the 1918 Spanish Influenza pandemic was an animal-to-man transmission which very likely originated in Haskell, Kansas USA. So the point is that such outbreaks could happen anywhere, and it seems that the most common animal-to-man transmissions are happening via raising, proximity to and/or consuming animals. (I'm not wading into the mass production side of things, for obvious reasons). JMO.

The site of origin of the 1918 influenza pandemic and its public health implications

Then, we should stay with Covid-19. Not other viruses. Or comparisons that have not been attributed to this Coronavirus.

 

[nightowl1975]

Let it burn itself out, which should have been Plan A. Not like I didn't predict this when everyone thought trying to shut down the country was actually going to work.

How long do you think this will take? I also think it’s inevitably what will have to occur. We simply have way too many cases circulating and so little desire/resolve/willingness/ability to completely close down to try to stop it. Even if we did, I don’t think it would work.

 

[10ofRods]

Then, we should stay with Covid-19. Not other viruses. Or comparisons that have not been attributed to this Coronavirus.

Actually SARS-Coronavirus-1 is a good analogue. Comparatively speaking.

And I don't think anyone here has posted a single thing about corona viruses in general, from a scientific point of view. The people who make those kinds of comparisons are out there - but they're not posting here.

But we don't have to "stick to" one pandemic to understand human behavior under stress. Or when faced with epidemics/pandemics.

I highly recommend A Distant Mirror by Barbara Tuchman, which shows how similar our own society is to the societies that experienced Bubonic Plague and how similar the divisions and behaviors are.

 

[Deleted member 158085]

But what's the actual plan, then? Because every week of blaming irresponsible behavior, is one more week of this morass where the economy and human sanity are battered by the threat of constant lock downs, and one more week closer to the virus burning itself out.

Every week of irresponsibility is another month of lockdown. The very people screaming for their freedom are causing us to lose our freedom even longer. Already, Americans can forget about being free to travel the world. We aren’t welcome in many places and it’s due to the irresponsible, the selfish, and the conspiracy whacks who think the ultimate goal of this “hoax” is to microchip us.

 

[KALI]

We cannot lock everything up. The financial strain would be too great to the United States.
We have to operate as safely as possible and have the vulnerable isolate as much as possible. Moo

And when the mask mandates don't work, what's left - back to locking everyone up? For how long, this time? I never hear anyone openly and clearly advocating shutting everything down for however long it takes to eradicate the virus, but that seems to be exactly what many here want (once we eliminate the "wishes" like contact tracing),

 

[10ofRods]

How long do you think this will take? I also think it’s inevitably what will have to occur. We simply have way too many cases circulating and so little desire/resolve/willingness/ability to completely close down to try to stop it. Even if we did, I don’t think it would work.

Potentially 10 years. No one knows. Maybe only 3 years. No one knows. Too many variables. Maybe never (I'm always optimistic but most people my age are not expecting to see the end of this). At least, the ones I know IRL.

If it really takes 70% of us getting CoVid to get to herd immunity and 5% of us get it each year - well...the math is not too difficult. More people will keep entering the age bracket where getting CoVid would be required - let's say, age 35-40 at the latest...overall population would decline, right now 10% of Americans are dying if they get CoVid.

Hard to factor in those variables, and some people will continue to be risk-adverse and not get CoVid "on time."

So...if 15,000,000 Americans get CoVid in the next year (and 150,000 die next year), that leaves 315,000,000 still to go. With 150,000 or so dying every year.

If it's only 5% die (because all people 50 and over and with any underlying condition stay home - about 40% of us), then 75,000 annual deaths (that seems really optimistic), an entire group of people shut up, working from home if possible, and CoVid still as much of a threat for hotspots as ever.

You can't make children get CoVid, for example. You can't make vulnerable adults go outside. So, there will be a plague-ridden class of people (who apparently are okay with that) and the others - 20% are under age 20 (at least) and they will all grow up to have CoVid too...one day.

Unless we find a vaccine. If CoVid remains as viral as it does right now (and it has increased its transmissibility one time already), it'll take 7-10 for 60% to be at herd immunity; immunity doesn't seem to be transferred at birth; no studies yet on breastfeeding OR on how long immunity lasts.

If immunity is as shallow as for other similar viruses, then this deadly disease (more prevelant than tuberculosis and more deadly) is here to stay.

Good times? No.

Entirely different, morose times - just like Medieval Times. And different classes of people - those who stay out of the melée by wearing PPE or other means, and everyone else. Took like a hundred years to bring pestilence under control in the 14th and 15th centuries.

If we do get a vaccine, thank Science and Medicine.