Coronavirus COVID-19 - Global Health Pandemic #66

[10ofRods]

Our mailman wears disposable gloves. Also the mail is sitting for maybe 24 hours or more before it gets delivered so I think that is probably enough time for any virus to dissipate.

The virus is transmitted primarily by respiration, not hands. While you are personally comfortable with your mailman's germs (I understand that you live someplace where CoVid is rare), the topic isn't just about each one of us and our individual habits. If I lived someplace where the positivity rate was 27% (it's 6% where I live), I would think about mail more.

So I'm typing this out in hopes it will make people in those places either step up their game or feel comfortable with what they're doing.

If someone mails me something here in town (such as legal documents), it's typically 12 hours between leaving that place and arriving at my door. How much CoVid has to be on the mail before it could be infectious?

Most mail goes through conveyor belts. How often are they sanitized? I just asked our post office about it (by phone) and the answer was "we are not sanitizing the conveyor belts." I asked about the storage bins - they aren't sanitizing those either. They are short-handed right now and there is no mandate.

So while I believe mail is not a usual source of infection, the fact that people who say they are "doing everything" and have never left their house are getting CoVid is an interest of mine.

The virus lasts on surfaces like conveyor belts for "hours to days" according to the research. Average is 24 hours for a carton and conveyor belts could be reinfected continuously (so hard to study and no one has attempted it, AFAIK - just one study saying 72 hours for a conveyor belt in a closed system).

The virus doesn't "dissipate." It deactivates after a time (different in varying circumstances). It can still be located even if deactivated. Where would it "dissipate" to, I wonder? It's a physical object. The amount of virus found on floors and in sewer water is very large - and is still active for up to a week (no one knows).

At any rate, very little new research on this topic and the early studies were provisional.

One form of the virus lives on paper for up to 5 days - so we can each decide for ourselves. But I'd sure wonder about that particular vector for the "I've never left my house, all groceries sit for 24 hours before I touch them" group. I'd also wonder if people's handwashing actions (most people wet their hands before adding soap) are a factor (inadvertent droplets splashed onto the face?)

Another possible source of CoVid for the "I have no idea where I got it" group is sink drains, traps, shower floors and traps. The study on this is new. We wash our hands in sinks, CoVid is found in the sink's plumbing. Is further water going down the drain capable of creating aerosols? I'm reading some conversations among some lab researchers who are arguing about how to go about recreating this situation in order to study it (different forces of faucet water have to be emulated, etc)

The new more stable form of CoVid (the "G" mutation) lasts longer than the prior version on these surfaces. Still waiting for any sort of coherent research to be done on just how long the more stable form lasts.

100,000 virions exhaled per breath in an active shedder who isn't talking...probably 1 million needed for most people to get infected. No one has estimated the "hand to face" transmission vector (and some scientists think it is super rare - but maybe that's what happens with these also super rare cases of people locked into their homes - and still getting CoVid?)

As someone else said, there has to be some way these people are getting it.

 

[gitana1]

I'd feel better. I went in wearing a kn95 and was out in 10 minutes and not concerned. Over 15 minutes and I'd probably walk out without purchasing anything.

Eesh. Now I’m going to be paranoid about my Home Depot trip yesterday. I was very close to others. No one sneezed or shouted or anything and they all wore a mask but I was there for two hours, getting paint, supplies, etc.

 

[gitana1]

The virus is transmitted primarily by respiration, not hands. While you are personally comfortable with your mailman's germs (I understand that you live someplace where CoVid is rare), the topic isn't just about each one of us and our individual habits. If I lived someplace where the positivity rate was 27% (it's 6% where I live), I would think about mail more.

So I'm typing this out in hopes it will make people in those places either step up their game or feel comfortable with what they're doing.

If someone mails me something here in town (such as legal documents), it's typically 12 hours between leaving that place and arriving at my door. How much CoVid has to be on the mail before it could be infectious?

Most mail goes through conveyor belts. How often are they sanitized? I just asked our post office about it (by phone) and the answer was "we are not sanitizing the conveyor belts." I asked about the storage bins - they aren't sanitizing those either. They are short-handed right now and there is no mandate.

So while I believe mail is not a usual source of infection, the fact that people who say they are "doing everything" and have never left their house are getting CoVid is an interest of mine.

The virus lasts on surfaces like conveyor belts for "hours to days" according to the research. Average is 24 hours for a carton and conveyor belts could be reinfected continuously (so hard to study and no one has attempted it, AFAIK - just one study saying 72 hours for a conveyor belt in a closed system).

The virus doesn't "dissipate." It deactivates after a time (different in varying circumstances). It can still be located even if deactivated. Where would it "dissipate" to, I wonder? It's a physical object. The amount of virus found on floors and in sewer water is very large - and is still active for up to a week (no one knows).

At any rate, very little new research on this topic and the early studies were provisional.

One form of the virus lives on paper for up to 5 days - so we can each decide for ourselves. But I'd sure wonder about that particular vector for the "I've never left my house, all groceries sit for 24 hours before I touch them" group. I'd also wonder if people's handwashing actions (most people wet their hands before adding soap) are a factor (inadvertent droplets splashed onto the face?)

Another possible source of CoVid for the "I have no idea where I got it" group is sink drains, traps, shower floors and traps. The study on this is new. We wash our hands in sinks, CoVid is found in the sink's plumbing. Is further water going down the drain capable of creating aerosols? I'm reading some conversations among some lab researchers who are arguing about how to go about recreating this situation in order to study it (different forces of faucet water have to be emulated, etc)

The new more stable form of CoVid (the "G" mutation) lasts longer than the prior version on these surfaces. Still waiting for any sort of coherent research to be done on just how long the more stable form lasts.

100,000 virions exhaled per breath in an active shedder who isn't talking...probably 1 million needed for most people to get infected. No one has estimated the "hand to face" transmission vector (and some scientists think it is super rare - but maybe that's what happens with these also super rare cases of people locked into their homes - and still getting CoVid?)

As someone else said, there has to be some way these people are getting it.

I just wash my hands after touching the mail. I hide it from my animals too.

But did the couple who got it after, they said, taking all precautions, say they went nowhere? I thought they just said they socially distanced. Did they go out to eat and take off their masks.

Our positivity rate here in OC California is 12%. I don’t know if that’s bad or okay.

 

[gitana1]

well that'd be a wasted trip then since their blood/Covid test would show the truth

True. That wouldn’t work at all. My brother in law went to the ER recently because he had burning in his lungs. He said people in the waiting room to get tested were crying in fear.

He left before they tested him because the whole scene scared the hell out of him.

This is serious business. Not a plot to get the “benefits” of a free hospital stay.

 

[CharlestonGal]

I just wash my hands after touching the mail. I hide it from my animals too.

But did the couple who got it after, they said, taking all precautions, say they went nowhere? I thought they just said they socially distanced. Did they go out to eat and take off their masks.

Our positivity rate here in OC California is 12%. I don’t know if that’s bad or okay.

12% is bad. Should be <5% for the state to be open, according to reopening guidelines.

 

[gitana1]

And not at all if he is taking one of the drugs he recommends. Also everyone gets tested around him. He is the most protected person in the world except for HM Queen Elizabeth IMO.

Wait. What drugs? No drugs have been determined definitively to protect someone from the virus yet.

 

[gitana1]

12% is bad. Should be <5% for the state to be open, according to reopening guidelines.

Our California guidelines are 8% and under. But we aren’t re-closing.

 

[tresir2012]

When someone says he took every precaution and still tests positive, it means he did NOT take EVERY precaution

I am wondering if they are getting it thru the eyes or from A/ C or pets or somewhere. Somewhere that has not really been fully investigated as to possibilities.

 

[gitana1]

We were told we didn't need them initially which has stuck in a lot of peoples minds. You can't just change the justification for economic and supply reasons and then expect the public to take you seriously when you do a 180. I am talking about WHO here.

And the CDC. You’re right. All credibility is lost after that, for many.

 

[gitana1]

Thank you for that. Was sent to me by a friend in the NL and most of the time his links do not work (I thought it was because I was in the US)
I attached his photo of him with his fiance.

I told my mom about it. She’s from Holland and felt sad hearing about this.

 

[gitana1]

So as reasonable people we evolve as new information presents itself...right?

Yes. But some aren’t reasonable and don’t trust governmental or other agencies. And many won’t consider the change due to new information. They will consider that it’s due to scarce supply, so we were lied to.

That creates a credibility problem.

I mean studies on the efficacy of various masks have been done long before they said we didn’t need them.

That was a big mistake.

 

[dmac55]

Due to the difficulty of getting tested here, I'm shocked the percentage is so low. It strikes me as illogical that an asymptomatic person is going to spend 8 hours in line in the AZ summer, for a test that could take three weeks to get back. If everyone waiting in line has symptoms serious enough warrant that wait, then shouldn't the percentage positive be closer to 100?

(I know people on AHCCCS that use the hospital as a kind of "Summer Staycation." If facilities are now hesitating to admit healthy people, it seems logical that a "positive" Covid test could be seen as a lottery ticket, of sorts.)

This is off topic to the thread

As a former nurse, there are people who utilize emergency rooms and hospitals for a myriad of reasons, including their life circumstances, and long before COVID-19

My colleagues and I never disparaged them
Not once.

 

[tresir2012]

White House chief of staff Mark Meadows defends Trump's false claim that '99%' of coronavirus cases are 'harmless'

Someone is defending the 99% claim by POTUS.

White House chief of staff Mark Meadows defends Trump's false claim that '99%' of coronavirus cases are 'harmless'
Eliza Relman
6 hours ago

White House chief of staff Mark Meadows
Screenshot/Fox News

• White House chief of staff Mark Meadows on Monday backed President Donald Trump's false claim that "99%" of coronavirus cases are "totally harmless."
• During his first interview since taking the role, Meadows told "Fox and Friends" that Trump was "right" to downplay the risks associated with the virus.
• "The vast majority of people are safe from this," Meadows said.

 

[10ofRods]

I just wash my hands after touching the mail. I hide it from my animals too.

But did the couple who got it after, they said, taking all precautions, say they went nowhere? I thought they just said they socially distanced. Did they go out to eat and take off their masks.

Our positivity rate here in OC California is 12%. I don’t know if that’s bad or okay.

It's higher than what most medical researchers would like - many recommend lockdowns (real ones) at 5% (1 in 20 people currently have CoVid).

I wouldn't be too paranoid about your Home Depot visit. But...if it's been 3 days since that visit and you're worrying about it, please make an appointment and go get tested. I don't know your age of course, but if you're over 50, do think about going to get tested. The initial immune response to CoVid is enough to protect most healthy young people. Viral load is a factor too and Home Depot is certainly not as infectious as a hospital ER or overflow CoVid unit - or a long term care facility.

The reason to get tested early is that most of us, even with comorbidities, can avoid pneumonia with early treatment. Also, it gives you a chance to think hard about who your doctor is and what happens next. You're in an area with really good hospitals and doctors.

Do you have an oximeter? (It's been such a help to my own anxiety - since I can see there's oxygen in my blood!) The people who just flop over from CoVid without prior symptoms have blood oxygen at 80% or lower (and didn't notice!)

BTW, the research seems to show that those same people (the asymptomatic ones who suddenly die) may share a rare gene on the 20th chromosome and many have other genes that are associated with higher risk from CoVid - not much any of us can do about that, but knowing your own average oxygen level and checking it in the morning can be helpful in knowing when to call the doctor.

12% means that it's possible that 1 in 8 or so people in OC are positive for CoVid. But, since it's still the case that people with symptoms are more likely to be tested, it could be lower. But this is why right now we all have to act as if every other person has CoVid, take proper measures, and try to protect ourselves.

 

[rogue ant]

Here in Canada we've never been told we have to wear masks. The public health officers, who tell us what to do (never the politicians) have emphasized social distancing, but have said it's a good idea to wear one if you can't keep 1 m apart.

RSBM
Ottawa is making masks mandatory in all indoor public spaces as of midnight.

 

[tabitha111]

I am already planning out my path tomorrow to go get my 2nd shingles vaccine at our lovely Walmart pharmacy...yikes...they have a drive up window..so my plan is to go to the drive up window, ask for the paperwork, use my own pen of course, fill it out, go back to the window drop it off and ask them to please give me a call while I wait in my car for them to get ready. Whew. I remember the first vaccine I sat there at the pharmacy (this was in Jan) for over 1/2 hour while they prepared the vaccine (something about getting it to room temp I believe)....of course I will be wearing my N95 w/cloth mask over it..but still...I always feel like I have to do so much prep work to lesson my odds.

In other news, my father is still in the hospital ...and I KNOW he is not there on VACATION MODE. He does not like being there...but all is okay so far. Siblings are up visiting him and will give us the report tonight. Thanks for all your kind words.

 

[SouthAussie]

Dont ya all wonder when people get the virus and say they did everything right-. to my way
of thinking there was a breach somewhere along the way, a mistake, not recognized, and
that scares me because i think i do everything right,but i have slipped up occasionally,
and then i pray for 7 days

I touched a dental worker's sleeved arm yesterday during conversation (you know the way we used to ... back in the day). Immediately I said "Oh I am so sorry, I touched you!".
Luckily, we have no community transmission in my state, and the dental office requires its clients to sterilise upon walking in the door AND then right away go into the bathroom and wash your hands thoroughly.
The worker said it was okay, that is why they have double-sterilisation, because their area of work is invasive.

Won't be doing that again (I hope!)

PS: Our social distancing has been halved in size now, that is why I was close enough to touch her.

 

[MrX]

This is off topic to the thread

As a former nurse, there are people who utilize emergency rooms and hospitals for a myriad of reasons, including their life circumstances, and long before COVID-19

My colleagues and I never disparaged them
Not once.

I apologize, again, for the confusion. The long lines in economically challenged neighborhoods look, to me, like people desperate for help. I went off on a tangent mentioning some unsavory people that I know who have manipulated the system.

 

[tresir2012]

Yes. But some aren’t reasonable and don’t trust governmental or other agencies. And many won’t consider the change due to new information. They will consider that it’s due to scarce supply, so we were lied to.

That creates a credibility problem.

I mean studies on the efficacy of various masks have been done long before they said we didn’t need them.

That was a big mistake.

Then when they did start saying to wear a mask, they told the public not to use N95, but use the surgical mask to keep the best masks for the health workers. This automatically made it seem like these surgical masks for Joe public were not as effective as those reserved for the health services. So people only wore them in the mandated situations. If there were no mandated circumstances, then the public just didn't wear them.

 

[Bravo]

RSBM
Ottawa is making masks mandatory in all indoor public spaces as of midnight.

Toronto as well
What you need to know about Toronto's mandatory mask policy